Strick Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 Those cuts on the Caspian side reduce the weight a whopping .3 oz over no front serrations, 13.5 oz. The slide with no front serrations 13.8 oz, a Sig GSR 1911 slide 12.1 oz, a STI Trojan silde is also 12.1 oz. I don't see how a rational person could say a slide that is 1.4 oz heavier than other standard slides is "lightened" and has a "competitive advantage." I am not sure what point you are trying to make by comparing the weight of 2 Caspian slides and then saying that they weigh more than a completely different brand. That is like like saying that you are lightening your slide on a XD by shooting a M&P. It is all about the fact that a line has to be drawn somewhere. "Oh it is only serrations" turns into "Oh it is only a couple of small holes" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loves2Shoot Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 My point was not "oh it's only serrations," per my previous post, there are MANY types of front cuts on 1911 slide, and the one he did (and the picture I posted) is common. Comparing common 1911 slides is not the same as trying to compare two dissimilar products. Since you could not put a XD slide on an M&P but you could take the lighter STI slide and put it one your frame and it would be legal should make the logic more clear. The rules say cuts for "slide lightening" and "competitive advantage" are not legal, not that you can't change your cocking serrations, or remove them. I posted the weights to show CLEARLY, the amount of material is insignificant and should not constitute "lightening" a slide. Using the reasoning you presented, custom gun makers couldn't etch or engrave their logos in the slide either, that removes metal also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sigfla Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 My point was not "oh it's only serrations," per my previous post, there are MANY types of front cuts on 1911 slide, and the one he did (and the picture I posted) is common. Comparing common 1911 slides is not the same as trying to compare two dissimilar products. Since you could not put a XD slide on an M&P but you could take the lighter STI slide and put it one your frame and it would be legal should make the logic more clear. The rules say cuts for "slide lightening" and "competitive advantage" are not legal, not that you can't change your cocking serrations, or remove them. I posted the weights to show CLEARLY, the amount of material is insignificant and should not constitute "lightening" a slide. Using the reasoning you presented, custom gun makers couldn't etch or engrave their logos in the slide either, that removes metal also. Loves2shoot is dead right and the rule is pretty clear. Overthinking these things leads to this kinda discussion. No competitive advantage and in the end up to the MD to determine. If an MD says it is an advantage after discussion then ask IDPA national but seriously if it takes this much discussion to determine it then I think it is pretty obvious that "no advantage" is gained by removal and common sense interpretations of the rule win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loves2Shoot Posted February 18, 2010 Share Posted February 18, 2010 Joe, The reason I mentioned "slide lightening" is because that is what the posters in the thread are referring to to make it "illegal" I was using the slide weight to give folks a "reality check" about weights. from the IDPA rulebook index = "Slide, lightening: Removal of portions of the slide to gain a competitive advantage." Per the IDPA rule book for 1911's (ESP and CDP) PERMITTED Modifications (Inclusive list): SSP - 8. Cosmetic checkering/serrating. ESP - 7. Cosmetic checkering/serrating. That is all it is folks, just another common way to do the front serrations, just one cut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stryfox Posted February 18, 2010 Author Share Posted February 18, 2010 Thank you for taking the time to put forth this valuable information. ESP - 7. Cosmetic checkering/serrating. This about sums it up for me. I no longer feel like a cheat as this reasoning makes sense to me. I am not just trying to pacify myself. I am still going to contact IDPA HQ and ask about the "carry cut" I would like to do this but I will need a clear concise answer before. I enjoy Idpa it is a fun game and I want to play with honor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted February 18, 2010 Share Posted February 18, 2010 When you get a definitive reply, please post it here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stryfox Posted February 18, 2010 Author Share Posted February 18, 2010 I will defintly post my findings. Good or bad thank you to all the members here. I'm going to take some pics of my current slide and the copy a picture of the slide I like from the Wilson site. I have read rumors that a new rule book is comeing. Hopefully it will clear up some of the confusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loves2Shoot Posted February 18, 2010 Share Posted February 18, 2010 Just got off the phone with Robert Ray, panel cuts where serrations should be are fine (ala the photo I posted.) Panel cuts in areas NOT in the vicinity of typical front cocking serrations are not ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stryfox Posted February 18, 2010 Author Share Posted February 18, 2010 Just got off the phone with Robert Ray, panel cuts where serrations should be are fine (ala the photo I posted.) Panel cuts in areas NOT in the vicinity of typical front cocking serrations are not ok. Loves2shoot you rock! Thanks for clearing that up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted February 19, 2010 Share Posted February 19, 2010 Cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1973 Posted February 27, 2010 Share Posted February 27, 2010 Joe, The reason I mentioned "slide lightening" is because that is what the posters in the thread are referring to to make it "illegal" I was using the slide weight to give folks a "reality check" about weights. from the IDPA rulebook index = "Slide, lightening: Removal of portions of the slide to gain a competitive advantage." Per the IDPA rule book for 1911's (ESP and CDP) PERMITTED Modifications (Inclusive list): SSP - 8. Cosmetic checkering/serrating. ESP - 7. Cosmetic checkering/serrating. That is all it is folks, just another common way to do the front serrations, just one cut. I agree, it is a cosmo issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steel1212 Posted February 27, 2010 Share Posted February 27, 2010 Just got off the phone with Robert Ray, panel cuts where serrations should be are fine (ala the photo I posted.) Panel cuts in areas NOT in the vicinity of typical front cocking serrations are not ok. So basically you can do what ever you want, with out going through the slide, in the area that is suppose to have serrations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobMoore Posted February 27, 2010 Share Posted February 27, 2010 (edited) Per the IDPA rule book for 1911's (ESP and CDP) PERMITTED Modifications (Inclusive list): SSP - 8. Cosmetic checkering/serrating. ESP - 7. Cosmetic checkering/serrating. That "SSP" should read "CDP". SSP does not allow extra checkering or serrating, cosmetic or not. The exception would be on removeable grip panels. Edited February 27, 2010 by RobMoore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loves2Shoot Posted February 27, 2010 Share Posted February 27, 2010 Just got off the phone with Robert Ray, panel cuts where serrations should be are fine (ala the photo I posted.) Panel cuts in areas NOT in the vicinity of typical front cocking serrations are not ok. So basically you can do what ever you want, with out going through the slide, in the area that is suppose to have serrations. Yes, fish scales, coffin cut, serrations, cross hatch, whatever is common basically. No holes though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loves2Shoot Posted February 27, 2010 Share Posted February 27, 2010 Per the IDPA rule book for 1911's (ESP and CDP) PERMITTED Modifications (Inclusive list): SSP - 8. Cosmetic checkering/serrating. ESP - 7. Cosmetic checkering/serrating. That "SSP" should read "CDP". SSP does not allow extra checkering or serrating, cosmetic or not. The exception would be on removeable grip panels. Yea, I typoed there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Orr Posted November 29, 2010 Share Posted November 29, 2010 (edited) So now with the rule book revisions the above pistol is legal.... 3. Enhanced Service Pistol Division (ESP) Addition to PERMITED Modifications/Features page 22 15. Extended slide release. 16. Customization of the slide by adding front cocking serrations, engraving, tri-top, carry melts and high power cuts. 17. Ambidextrous or right side magazine releases Benny is building me a new ESP 2011 and it will have the Highpower cut and a tri topped slide. Ought to be a real looker... Edited November 29, 2010 by Merlin Orr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GmanCdp Posted November 29, 2010 Share Posted November 29, 2010 Merlin.be sure to post some pics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Watson Posted November 29, 2010 Share Posted November 29, 2010 Has always struck me as strange. Each division has a MAXIMUM weight limit and we are also barred from REDUCING the weight by cutting on the slide. There must be some very subtle advantage there. You could shoot an early Gold Cup or Commander, they have light slides from the factory. If that helps you shoot better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Orr Posted November 29, 2010 Share Posted November 29, 2010 Per IDPA a full dust cover seems to be perceived as an advantage. With this thought pattern I would think that a lighter pistol is a disadvantage....? In "other" shooting sports... Some people like Edge style with a tungsten guide rod...others an Eagle with a light slide. Really good shooters differ widely on what is the quickest and most "advantageous" gun to shoot. Personally I think it is (more) the same as black grips to white grips. No advantage - just what an individual wants his gun to look like or feel like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueOvalBruin Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 It's different though, take an example of 2 STI's with the same overall weight. Gun A has a long, wide dustcover (add 2 oz) but a lightened slide (lose 2 oz) which weighs the same as gun B with a short frame and regular slide. Gun A will shoot different than gun B, how much different will be up to each individual. Gun A will cycle faster than Gun B which is desirable by a lot of folks. Gun A has more slide energy but its extra frame mass would dampen the blow to your hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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