ButchW

I don't think I would use 30-06 powder in a 22 caliber. This is military surplus I presume? If so, that powder varied a lot from cannister to cannister. I think the manufacturers are probably the best place to look but remember powder was reinvented about 3 years ago and modern 4895 is not 1990 4895 powder. Also I would consult more reloading manuals too. Alliant 2400 in on their web site for 30-06 but you will not find it in any reload manuals except for use with lead gas checked bullets. I would pay real close attention to pressures given in reload manuals. Running guns at the higher pressure range is probably not a good idea since there are 10 powders for about all calibers generally speaking. I don't shoot .223 so no expert, but I reloading safety is good reloading. Butch

After my Jan. 1st gun explosion I came up with an idea to at least cut down on any "possible" future problems.... After playing in the various reloading manuals and on the various manufacturer's web site I pick my load. At present that is Varget and about 48 grains. Varget is a lower pressure powder for 30-06 that some other in the 147 grain bullet range. First I weight the bullets and group within .5 grain groups. I check my brass for length to make sure they are within the 12 thousands or so range on OAL or drop them in the case gauge. My brand new Win varied close to 6 thousands in each box of 20. I weight the brass, since I only have 1000, I put in 1 grain apart groups. 30-06 brass varies over 10% from 181 - 205 grains without primers. Some WW brass that was obviously made out of weird alloy from the pale non shinny yellow was sold off. I set up the 650 press and process to run out a pound or so of powder. Then I weight the finished cartridges. This way the max variation would be 1.5 grains of powder. At 48, plus or minus 1.5 grains, will not be under or over. I haven't figured out exactly what to do with the 202-205 grain Fed. brass because from the kick they are obviously a lot smaller volume and hotter loads. Maybe the military minus 10% rule. Which by the way Military brass came in only about 2 grains average heavier than commercial. I also noticed a whole lot of variations from all the companies over a period of 10 years or so. I have Federal at 184-186 or last years at 202-205. Also one really nice side effect... very accurate. Hope this helps someone. Butch

Hello everyone, In the standard military previous Russian Block countries, what was the standard 7.62 x 54 bullet? 152 Grain? Boat tail or flat bottom or cone bottom like some of the 7.62x39 123 gr. bullets? The AP bullets? The tracers? Thanks, Butch

If you are looking for used Dillon 550 go to EBay. Otherwise I think the 650 is the better press (don't find them on ebay at less that 85% new) so I would buy new. The major difference is powder check system that I really really like on bottle neck cartidges. If you get a 550 or 650 I would also get a good spot light that shines on the filled cartridge station. BrianEnos.com has as good as prices you are going to find on Dillion unless you have a local guy in town. Brian does a good job of not shafting customers on shipping. I have had my Dillon 650 4 months and can run about 400 9mm per hour even with the occasional jam. Buy for sure extra primer tubes, spare parts kit. When you start a second caliber buy extra heads and extra powder dies and may be a quick change. Modern reloading manuals (Lyman & Speer) are out of date for modern powders. ALWAYS look on the manufacturer's website first! Following some of the loads in these book will blow up your gun. In one caliber I load. Lyman 48 is 30% over Alliant's website. Butch

Correction... Where I get most of my powder is www.powdervalleyinc.com

Thanks for the info. Ammunitionstore.com was the only picture I could find. I figured the BT would be better or at least easier for reloading since Dillon doesn't flare the top of the 30-06 cases. With flat bottom I have to hold the bullet in place on top of the shell till it goes into the die. I figure the BT would set there and save a few "sooner or later' mashed fingers. Actually I am paying $50 per thousand. I put the dented ones on ebay and someone always wants them. Butch

I don't understand "blasting ammo". here is a link to what I am talking about ... http://www.ammunitionstore.com/pricelist_reloading_308.htm I don't hunt; just target practice. I just love to shoot everything but shotgun and really potent large calibers. 1" pattern or 4" pattern I don't really care; just have fun doing both. Thanks, Butch

Hello to all... Since my accident I have been looking toward buying new 30-06 brass. I have found about 5 or so different places for once-fired brass all in and around $100 to $140 per thousand. Brassman has new primered PMC for about the same price as I am finding once fired Rem or Win. brass? In 9mm I found that PMC seem to be just a hair thicker brass and seem to do just as well as my used Rem or Federal with lead bullets. I don't load any other bullets at present in 9mm. Opinions???? New PMC or once-fired Rem. or Win. or Federal (forgot them). My plans at present are to use unblemished 147 grain FMJ BT pulls from .308 Military bullets and Hodgdon Varget powder. Thanks Butch.

All bullets hit the target and made nice .3 inch holes. Except the last one which hit my PVC homemade target stand about 13" off of aim. (So basically the gun was coming apart before the bullet left the barrel or that could have been a fragment of something else that destroyed my PVC target holder. If it was a fragment probably a walnut chuck. I think both sides of the chamber blew out at 90 degree angles. All the cases are fine but the primer end of the one that blew up is missing. I figure the bolt held it long enough before momentum carried it away. The rest of that case is still in the barrel. I just asked about the reaming or swagged cases just in case. Not know what happened is the worst part of the accident. I know for sure no barrel obstruction. I have been shooting up all my father's 5+ years old ammo for weeks before the accident. If it didn't kick or spit out the case I was running a cleaning rod down the barrel to make sure no bullet stuck in there. I remember specifically the 7th shot kicked exactly like I expected. One of the first things through my mind after the accident when I was picking up pieces was "did the previous bullet kick". Everything does generally point to powder of there was a whole lot of minor problems that all added up to one big one. Thankful to God I wasn't hurt. I am shipping Alliant the gun tomorrow probably will never hear about it again from them. Thanks Butch.

Our club always has some shotguns on hand during events. (Members are asked to bring in all they don't mind letting others use.) But we buy shotgun shells by the truck load (standard not reduced loads). NRA does more or less fund our 4h events and scouts and kid's safety and I don't know what else. I am new to the club. I know nothing about shotguns past they are fun about every 10 years or so to cut down small trees. Most of the guys buy the big plastic bags of 12/20 shells at Walmart before hunting season and keep them all year. Cabella's had some really good deals on rifle ammo before hunting season maybe shotgun too??? Just something to keep in mind later. Just my opinion if you haven't already get her some serious practice with a 22 rifle to get use to a rifle before letting her on a shotgun. Another good rifle is the 30 carbine. Loud but minor kick. The kick and blast might stop her interest cold. great age to teach her too about guns at age 13-15 (puberty) she will go to her mother and not really like you anymore. Butch

Since all the brass was military and swagged (sp.??) or reamed what if... The primer pocket had let go due to too thin of walls? Would the gun blow up or just spit gas out the back through the vent in the bolt? Butch

When did Peters become Remington Peters? That would age the brass but it is all commercial. I am kinda running "gun shy" at the moment and plan to scrap all my Military but what was my father's into the brass pail. I think inside one of my reloading manuals it talks about 1936 was the changeover date. So I already scrapped anything under 1936 just to not take any chances that some might end up in someone's hands.

talk to me ... sales11@iscnetwork.com I don't know exactly what I plan to do with all my military running a little gun shy. Thanks. Just checking. Running a little gun shy right now. The cardboard is in worst shape then the brass.

The 27 grains is probably fairly hot (after the fact). But Alliant only got to 59000 on any round that I sent them. In the loading scheme this was #8 and 9-20 went to Alliant. I shot 1-7. I have a Dillon 650 powder check system and in previous posts Dillon said that would be good to about 2 grains on 2400. The seventh bullet hit in with the other 6. Alliant also tested the powder to make sure it wasn't bulleye or something else. (Bulleye is the only powder even close to the same look as 2400 I have open.) And power was 04/2006 production. They checked to for other contaminates. NONE. This batch of brass was put in Iossa (spelling) cleaner first to get rid of the years of grime. (Basically phosphoric acid & soap). Then put in walnut shells / corn cob mix that had little or no polish. Now it would have copper & lead contamination from other previous bullets or casings. Best I can figure is a whole bunch of little things went wrong. Hot load due to military brass. Really tight bullets since the press doesn't flare 30-06 necks. The bullet is pushed into the mouth and the case fits is like a "too small glove." The 180 being a flat bottom only amplifies the conditon. Old rifle maybe weaker metal. Weird weather conditions. Late at night frost starting to fall. Gun warm; air 32 degrees. --------------------- I am retiring the 2400 back to 30 carbine (a few hundred shoot from this batch) & maybe 357 later. I bought 1lb. of Varget at the local place which the guy at powderinc.com recommended. On hodgdon.com said starting is 47 grains minus 10% gives me about 42.3. I figure aim for 42.5 and see where the powder measure falls roughly for my next 114 147gr. FMJBT cartidges. (anyone have a good load please chime in) Then look back a alliant 15 or 17 or something else. I would load 1500 fps if I could be safe from the "under charge" problems. I only shoot paper at 50-500 yards. (The 180's were just to keep around for 4 legged animals should I or my brother ever need to kill any at his ski home.) I looked down the barrel tonight and rifling looks good as far as I can tell. The brass casing is stuck well. I can't see where barrel ends and case begins.

I have 400 never fired Remington brass that is 50 years old. Should I do anything with them before loading them? Also 500 once fired Win / Rem / Federal / Peters same age. Thanks.

Most of us reloaders need brass from time to time so I decided this would be a good place to list any suppliers out there and hope the "SEARCH" will find this topic. I have no special recommendations or knowledge about any of these people. MOSTLY ONCE FIRED: http://www.brassmanbrass.com http://www.brassreloading.com http://www.chestnutridge.com http://www.gibrass.com (Military) http://www.southernbellebrass.com NEW BRASS: http://www.midwayusa.com VERY WELL USED: Ebay.com

I send cartidges off to Alliant and they tested all under 59,000. Alliant said the problem is at 63,500. But 2 different sources now say Military brass loads should be reduced 10% from the reloading data, Dillon & Hodgdon. Probably never going to know what failed or combinations of what failed.

There could be that chance but probably real slim. I never owned 8 mm or 303. I inspect all the cartidges after reloading next to one another. I find that is real easy to spot a bullet too long or not seated properly. Then I inspect them individually before I put them in the plastic 20 round containers that go in the pouch bag. But you have some good ideas. I just bought a Rem 700 and am looking at several high power cheap scopes for it. I know before I reloading again 30-06 I plan to do some of my 9mm tricks and shoot matching headstamps, weight the cartidges and the bullets; just to make sure nothing is too far off. And the case gauge or caliper too; even though I have only once fired or virgin cases right now. I figure the dillon 650 and power check system should keep me away from major other issues. (I always periodically dump a cartidge on the scale to make sure things haven't edged up. So far my Dillon has tendencies to go down about .1 grains during a run of a few hundreds. I also bought some powder new powder. The local had Hodgdon Varget that looked promising. 150 GR. NOS BT --- VARGET 51.0 2975 50,100 CUP It also is lot lower pressure then the specs on 2400 are. I also bought some military 147 grain boat tails and cleaned out the damaged ones. The BT should not be as tight as the 180's were and load easier to place on the non-expanded 30-06 case mouths. I plan to post more just had way too much business to devote time to hobby. Butch

Pictures (1st batch) are up... http://www.iscnetwork.com/bfsc/bw.html Probably tomorrow for more. Butch

I checked a few for proper length; didn't find any expanded. Most of the brass was once fired some 0 fired cause I punched out the bubble primers and broke 5 pins doing them. (the person who created the 2 hole berdans should be shot with them. ) Headstamps are all over the place... 43 -79 on the hand full still loaded or shot the night of my explosion. My original plans was to load up all the miltary and scrap any that had bad primer pockets. Keep softpoints loaded in them the 3rd go round for any living things I might need to shot. And plink with the rest of them. I have 400 new brass & 600 commercial once fired upstairs for my 300+ yard paper killing. MYTH DEFUNK... all powder after the first shot is generally next to the bullet. So most if not all primers detonate into air pockets. This is due to the recoil of the first shot; especially in canons like the '06. Butch

My 30-06 mil. brass was from Ebay & my father's estate. Mixed together then I manually punched out the primers and swagged the pockets in my father's Lee press. All the 2 hole berdan hit the "brass file 13 bag." I put them in cleaner and soaked most of the dullness off of them. And to make sure any corrosive was dead. The Federal Primers and 2400 was bought in Oct. 2006. I had already disposed of my old 2400 & dad's old large rifle primers and the IMR 4064 or 4227. The last of that power is in 30 cartidges upstairs right now with new primers. Already shot 50 of them previously. 3 the night of the explosion. I plan to take pictures later tonight for Alliant and will post them on my web site somewhere. here will be the link to the link http://www.iscnetwork.com/bfsc/bw.html Any CHEMISTRY EXPERTS??... old miltary brass might have copper oxide in them more so than commercial. Thanks, Butch

Yes "cannelure". That is the picture. Mine aren't as shinny. The bullet seated on the cannelure in the 06 case puts the base just barely below the neck of the 30-06 case. Others need to chime in on this... I thought that is the definition for loading all bullets that don't have cannelures should you NOT have an exact "case length" given from the bullet manufacturer on necked brass. I think the idea is the "wave of explosion" hits the bottom of the bullet before the neck and once the bullet starts moving ..... path of lease resistance past that point. Butch

Asked about powder so I looked at the bullets too. All the bullets are the same size and shape. In my collection the only other round nose are FMJ or 150's with no clavet (spelling??). Butch

I have been going through setting up the Dillon press for each caliber in an attempt to use up all the old bullets / powder and such from my Father's estate. Once all is done I have 600 lbs of dies, presses, tools, lead shot, bullets & brass to Ebay. There is no chance I used any other powder. All my powder & primers are located in a separate place. I bring them to the work bench as needed just for the reason you describe above. (I put small pistol primers in for small rifle once; that is why the system and I watched my Father do the same thing once too with pistol powder.) Even though I have 2 quick changes. I plan to run 1000's at a tiime. I had just swagged (spelling??) all the military brass and was loading all through with all my old bullets. The 180 grain about 170 of them was going to be kept for any live animals I might need to kill. I also only have 3 - 4lb containers too. One Unique not opened, one bulleye and the 2400. I went and checked just in case 2400 is a lot darker than bulleye. I still have half a power measure of 2400 in place. I loaded 30 carbine then poured it all out for the large powder bar change out. Loaded 1/3 lbs of 4227 or 4064 and used it all up. Then poured the 2400 from the spare container back into the power measure. Thanks for asking. Butch

1. I think I agree. It will be interesting what Alliant tests show. I loaded my last 1/3 pound of either IMR 4064 or 4227 powder before I switched to 2400. I shot 3 of those last night before the 7 2400's that didn't blow up. 2. All bullets including the last one hit the paper target. Was not barrel obstruction. 3. Could have been, but on my press I have noticed usually on spot checks the vibration or just the power measure decreased my loads over time by about .1 grain. 4. All the bullets have a "calvet" (spelling??) The bullets are tight. By the time they come thru to the bullet station I have to hold the bullet until the last inch or so to get into the seating / crimp die because there is not any flare on the end. The thicknest of the bullet against the case wall is the only crimp. There is a small area right next to the neck (1/8' - 3/16") that is not sized and the bullet is not tight about .003" clearance between on both sides. I didn't like that but figured later to buy Dillon dies or full seat dies vs. the RCBS one I have there now. In a perfect 30-06 load can you push the bullet down? or pull it out without a pair of vise-grips? I don't have any high end pullers but the kinetic one I have will not work. These bullets are about the tightness of my 9mm lead loads. Thanks, Butch