[Multi-Purpose Shotgun]

Some alternative opinions on trap guns and sporting.

The height of the stock generally accounts for the how high the gun will shoot. Additions and or exceptions would be guns like Kreighoff that allow you to change the lower bbl hanger and raise/lower the POI, regardless of the stock height.

Beretta does not have this feature.

High ribs/stepped ribs, typical american style trap guns, allow your head to be more erect and a "fiqure 8" look between the middle and front beads. If you had two guns, both with the same stock height, same rib height at the muzzle, but one had a raised rib at the receiver end and the other had a lower rib...the guns would have the same POI. The "beads would look different, large space between one gun and a fiqure (stacked) beads on the other.

That said, a Beretta "trap gun" with a flat rib and choke tubes should work fine in sporting if the stock fits you. IMHO, a POI of 60/40 is not bad for most sports. Trap can be higher, but you should be able to hit targets keeping them in full view or "blotting" them out with 60/40. You need to test that out for yourself however.

Beretta used to sell, along with Browning, flat ribbed trap guns in the non-USA market. I know Browning does, not sure about Beretta anymore.

Good luck

[From Pistol to Skeet]

Ah, that's the book on tennis...good memory Benos.

I don't know John, but I met him once and watched him shoot. I even "stole" a little bit of his technique...when he wasn't looking.

He was one of those unusually talented shooters of which there are few "created/born" in a given time period IMHO. Including him, I have personally seen only two, perhaps three in my "time". Always a good discussion when drinking beer.

Thanks

[From Pistol to Skeet]

If you go to Shotgun Sports online they have videos from Skeet champions that show you their techniques.

I would probably avoid any of the skeet books that detail, diagram the bird path, exact lead required, and all that nonense...that's "skeet for geeks". That may work for regular sheet targets, kinda, but you'll find it useless for other clay target sports that are faster or more varied IMHO.

Shooting moving clay targets is easy if your gun fits, focus on the target...not the bbl, body swings like a tank turret from the ankles on up, swing through the target and fire...always keep moving-before-during and after you fire. Practice will give you your bird-bbl relationship and when to fire...you'll know when.

You can do many things wrong and still hit the target , but you will miss all the time if you stop moving the gun when you press the trigger. That's probably the equivalent of "jerking" the trigger in pistol shooting.

I haven't read Brian's book, but I understand it gets great reviews and deals with the "mental" aspects of shooting. If that's the case, you are 75% "there". In the "old" days, required reading for competitive shotgun shooters was not any skeet or trap book, that was like reading the funny papers, it was a book on tennis. Basically it was a book on the "mental" aspect prior to hitting the ball, so it applied to any sport and... beyond if you wished.

Good luck and have fun.

[1100 Rem]

I shoot an older 28 1100 sometimes and I like it a lot. But I love the gauge and I think 1100's overall, are great shooters...so I'm biased. For $600, I would buy it no problem.

[can't mail handgun]

Does it make any difference if you ship just the frame, i.e. non-working handgun?

Ship the slide in a different package.

Or, the frame, bare or not, is the "handgun" and all shipping rules apply?

Thanks

[Cash And Trophy Payouts]

In other shooting sports we often bought medals in various sizes. They usually cost between $5.00- $8.00 each, or at least they did. Easy to store and ten years from now, you will know what you did on that weekend...good memories.

Attendance permitting we always tried to award 3 places per class. 80% of the shooters that attend the shoots know they will not win. There is always a big smile on their face when they come up to the table to receive their "medal", all shooters clap for them, and the you get a chance to shake their hand and thank them for coming, supporting your shoot. There wouldn't be one...if they didn't attend.

Prizes and cash can always be given in addition as needed depending on the style and intent of the shoot.

IMHO of course.

[Cage Match? Beretta vs. Benelli]

Luckily, shotgun moving target games are "low tech" and as much as manufacturers try, I think it will stay that way given the nature of shot patterns.

Simple gas operated shotguns like the Beretta and Remington 1100 will do just fine with proper stock fit and shooting instruction. Very little is gained with overbored bbls, porting, extended chokes, etc, etc.

When I "help" a rifle/pistol shooter with shotgunning, I just tell them to do every thing opposite; don't look at the "sights", jerk the trigger, and never keep the gun still. By the end of the day they can't shoot pistol or shotgun properly.

Just kidding; time and practice cure all.

Good luck

[para x??]

I'm surprised all the handgun manufacturers haven't introduced a 1911.

Where else can you introduce a handgun, with little to no R&D, have a ready made sizable market potential, and charge $600 to $1,000 and no one "bats an eye".

They don't even have to work properly out of the box.

It's a market made in heaven...IMO.

[Pinning Grip Saftey?]

I have a hard time envisioning any real world "situation" where the 1911 grip safety, any grip safety for that matter, would prevent an AD or make a gun safer.

Other than "twirling" a 1911 with the thumb safety disengaged, hammer cocked.

Same for a "safety" on a trigger. Don't "twirl" a Glock either.

IMHO, the manual safety and a series 80 1911 is almost as safe as a Glock in use.

A short trigger throw is a little less forgiving...for good or bad.

In a holster or sitting on a table, the manual safety gun will be safer. It's not a "pull and shoot" gun for the wrong person/child.

[Browning Citori Ultra]

That sounds like a great deal, they are very good guns.

Prices are going up. I think you will find most of the Brownings, new, are at the $2,000+ range now.

You could earn a living buying Ultra's at a $1,000 and reselling them.

[Browning Cynergy]

I've read a couple of reviews on the internet , and the one constant is the soft recoiling aspect. I understand it has a recoil reducing recoil pad system, but I'm not sure what kind it really is.

Interesting looking gun, somewhat ugly and good looking at the same time. The trigger guard looks like something off an autoloader. Striker fired I read.

They must think us dumb shotgunners really care about that stuff.

But, nice to have a new entry from a good manufacturer.

[Opinions On The Winchester Super X 1]

I've shot them a couple of times and handled a few more.

IMO, they are very well made and finished, all "machined" parts...I am told and didn't sell that well due to the higher retail costs at the time. Compared to the dominant Remington 1100.

They are heavy and shoot well for me anyway.

I get the "impression" from auto shooters that they have reached "classic" status and own them because there aren't that many around and they are so well made.

Even if they don't shoot them much, they still want one. No plastic or stamped parts on that gun.

Anyway, it should do fine for whatever you want.

"Lasting a lifetime" is relative to how much shooting is done really.

Beretta autos are known to be very durable and reliable. Even the less durable 1100 would last a lifetime for most shooters. Unless you shoot 50,000 rounds a year.

Good luck and have fun.

[Sporting Clays And The Saiga-12]

Got me on both counts; I'm not familiar with that type of shotgun as you can tell.

7/8th is a low recoiling round overall.

They used to sell "slip on" recoil pads, but I don't know if they still do or whether that would work on your particular stock.

[Sporting Clays And The Saiga-12]

I assume you were shooting a 1 1/8 load which is hurting you.

You might try the 1 ounce load at about 1200 FPS, a lot less recoil and still a good pattern.

I would still put on a recoil pad, it can only help in felt recoil no matter what gun you shoot. I even put them on small gauge guns, that don't need any recoil reduction, just in case I "place" the butt stock down too hard on the heel or toe and chip a piece of stock off.

[Ipsc In The Olympics!!!]

Be careful what you wish for!

The Olympics have kept alive such sports as ISU skeet and trap, but the numbers of participants is small and being an "Olympic Sport" has done little to 'attract' additional shooters. But, as mentioned, it did keep them alive with funding and they continue to 'search and select' certain shooters to make the team. Most of the team members in the past have come from the Army and/or Colorado Springs training center.

Being an Olympic sport means being television friendly and in general a business. There are and continue to be changes in the shooting format that speed up, reduce the number of shooters, reduce the number of targets, etc that may or may not enhance the sport. But, if you want to remain in the Olympics, you will make those changes regardless of the effect on the sport.

Keep in mind the Olympic set up also affects the other venues, i.e. World Championships, etc and the Olympics is only every 4 years.

You might find, if action pistol could actually be in the Olympics, that the changes required might make your sport very different than what you intend.

I've read many threads on this fine forum about rules, formats, classes, etc and you have a pretty tough crowd to satisfy everyone. You might not like being 'told' how you will modify your sport.

Just some thoughts, which are opinions only.

[Shot Size-pellet Count-weight]

That's a good way to test loads.

Conventional wisdom is 7 1/2's past 40 or so yards, but I've shot 8's which seemed to work well.

8 1/2's may be "splitting hairs" too much to try to get extra shot in the pattern. That's okay if the "extra shot" is in the fringe of the pattern as additional shot usually is not needed in the center. Targets will be 'smoked' with 7/8, 1 oz and 1 1/8 if you "center" the target, but it's the fringe that seperates these loads, i.e. size of effective pattern. Of course the additional shot with cause a darker "inkplot", but no additional hits for looks.

If in doubt I would go to the heavier shot- just because.

The pattern can be thinner as long as it's as large and covers the 30" circle- so to speak.

Modern skeet and trap targets do break easy. I have seen international style targets that were very hard. I have personally seen #10 shot fail to break these harder targets, thereby invalidating the higher shot count theory. Less and bigger was indeed better in this case.

if I had to pick one shot size over all for all sports, it would #8.

Any thing past 40 yards, I would prefer 7 1/2's. If not available, I would over choke for the yardage.

[Limited 10 Vs Limited]

I think it would be difficult to reduce divisions and increase memberships, without really "ticking" off existing members.

If USPSA were run as a business and you wanted to increase paying members and participation I would make changes to make it "easier" for people to begin. In some cases, it would be easy and cheap to shoot, in other divisions, just easy.

Production would be easy and cheap if you don't allow too many modifications. These category guns were almost all designed as military/ practical guns that will not benefit much from innovations derived from a shooting sport, to most of the buying public anyway. So, I would be very restrictive on mods.

I would have a single stack division with trigger pull restrictions, 45 ACP only, 8 round max mag, 5" bbl max, no mag wells, etc. This may seem 'draconian', but as a business, it's too large a buying category not to have a division for it. There are millions out there and tens of thousands sold each year which you can buy at any gunshop anywhere. It's cheap and easy to get into this one.

Limited would go to 10 round mags. Expensive gun to buy, but easy since mags would be legal, cheap and I suspect, readily available. Cowboy action shooting is not cheap to get into, but it's easy- except for the clothes

I have no opinion on Open. I doubt you could devise a more expensive and difficult shooting sport to get into. But, as a business, if people want to shoot it I'd play it out as long as there are people shooting it.

If it was really declining, I would make some drastic changes and see what happens.

Just some thoughts and not new ones at that!

[Stick Birds]

Years ago we shot one of those for fun. Back then, it was a wooden handle.

We would alternate between us, throwing the birds.

I must admit it was as much fun trying to "fling" one, to cause a miss of course, as it was to shoot them.

[Does Nationals Feel Like A Overgrown Area?]

I'm not sure this is a totally analagous situation, but in regards to making it more spectator friendly and/or media worthy, the shotgun sports in the Olympics had to make several changes over the years.

Not in order, but for the shoot off rounds they began to use "flash" targets.

Basically, flash targets explode in a larger orange dust cloud, instead of pieces like the regular birds. Spectators can easy see if the target is hit and you can actually see them on television. Very difficult to see the normal targets.

They also altered the program for the top 6 shooters to compete against each other, a little more excitement.

They are considering other changes to make a shooting sport more "television friendly", i.e. more human drama, more people watch and more money. It's a business, they are not striving for the 'essence' of a sport.

Shooting is not an easy sport, in this country anyway, to make sponser and media friendly. Pistol is tougher than shotgun and IPSC style even tougher.

Humanoid targets would have to be eliminated, quickly, and more 'reactive targets' would have to be used. I think that's a given!!

Then, you( or whomever) would need a real producer to make it exciting. Watching shooting is like watching paint dry.

But, if you can make bobsledding interesting to watch, just by a stop watch on the screen, a time to beat and some commentary, you could make anything exciting.

This may change the sport too much for some, but for large shoots, concessions could be made given the attempt to popularize the sport more.

This would help the "image" of the sport, if it's needed, and create some awareness at the very least.

[Practical Shooting]

As a civilian, I think both sports can be practical... to me anyway.

You can learn how to properly, quickly and safely draw a weapon and hit what you are supposed to hit. From what I read( in civilian encounters), you need to be able to do that quickly and by reflex, if needed, because it's going to be over very soon.

If I can do that, without shooting myself or anyone else that I shouldn't, I'd be real happy since, in real life, you will be held responsible for your actions, good or bad.

Anything beyond that, i.e. multiple reloads, cover, lot's of targets, etc. is entering the " I like to shoot" stage, which is good. Trigger time is important and fun, that's why I'm there. The more I shoot, the better I will be- I hope!

I have a slim chance of ever needing a handgun for self defense, but it's nice to know.

I have a better chance of getting hit by an asteroid then being involved in a running gun battle with reloads, etc. I'm not a LEO, Military , etc.

However, I do think open and limited shooters grow accustomed to equipment that just won't be there if they need it.

But, most criminals aren't the "sharpest tacks on the wall", maybe they would try to rob the club while a shoot is going on

[One Shot Lube]

Just a quick follow up on the recommendation from users here to try One Shot lube, quite a while ago!

Unbelievable difference in loading effort, I can't believe I didn't try it earlier.

I almost fell forward on the first stroke of my SDB with a One shot lubed case because of the lack of 'effort' required.

My elbow thanks you!!

[Clay Shooting Usa]

If you drove to the club with him, I'll bet that could have been interesting

If I recall, his claim to fame in the shooting world was/is International trap.

I have never shot there, but it seems you don't have to drive far to shoot just about any type of shotgun game on any given weekend.

And, they have "stockist", I read, that can actually fit a gun to the shooter.

That's a novel idea that never really caught on in this country.

Not a good place for pistol shooters however

[Clay Shooting Usa]

I haven't read the USA version, but the English version, "Clay Shooting" is the best shotgun mag I have read. It's about $75 per year, so we share it among 3 of us- aren't we cheap!

There is no comparable American mag since the "American Shotgunner" years ago, which I also 'ate' some money when they went out.

I suspect if the USA version goes out, they could send the "English" version instead, which does report on all clay target games.

If shotgun is your game, England is the place to live.

Are you getting free copies from them?

My cheap side is showing on that question

[What is the hardest shot in Clays?]

Thanks,

I'll check out the website, triple my lead and poke at it- can't hurt.

When I'm with a beginner, I always ask them if they saw the piece come off the battue... they always say yes!

Some day they will fiqure out it was the "wad".

[What is the hardest shot in Clays?]

Battues and shondell type targets, if I spelled those right, are troublesome at far distances for me. Sight picture is odd and I don't always know when to fire.

I need constant practice with these, I can't fake it and hit them.