jkallner
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Posts posted by jkallner
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Welcome from New York.
Is your 320 Optic ready? If so, it will limit the field for optics. Generally, the Sig Romeo1 Pro is the go to optic.
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13 hours ago, motosapiens said:
I've seen stuff set up wrong before, but usually someone experienced notices right away. Hard to imagine multiple squads shooting it and no one noticing. Maybe I'm just extra careful because I was the steel MD for a few years at our club, so I have all the plates memorized.
The other part that is weird is the plate was smaller - you'd think someone would have noticed that something wasn't right and once the plate was missed someone would have squawked.
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20 hours ago, motosapiens said:
it boggles my mind that no one on the first squad noticed that.
Good point - one of our local Tier 1 matches had the left side of Roundabout reversed - it looked off for sure but several shooters from the first squad shot it and got to shoot it again after it was fixed. Stuff happens.
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20 hours ago, nso123 said:
I don’t think you’ll find too many tier 2 or 3 matches with the wrong heights for plates. Most venues are laser leveling before big matches now.
Thanks, I'm also thinking of Tier 1 matches too. Laser level is very interesting - a little out of the league of most clubs.
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14 hours ago, AR_James said:
If i recall the rule correctly, plus/minus two inches is an acceptable deviation in height.
Thanks, that seems reasonable.
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On 6/19/2021 at 10:53 PM, AR_James said:
So, that begs the question, Tier 3 matches must run all 8 Steel Challenge stages per the rulebook. So, if they only ran seven due to pulling Outer Limits, is it no longer a Tier 3 level match?
That's an interesting point. I would imagine the discrepancy didn't change the Tier, but I'm also wondering how much "variance" is allowed before a stage gets thrown out, That seemed to be automatic as the wrong plate was used, but if the plate was inches lower than standard or inches higher - what's allowed?
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2 hours ago, Darqusoull13 said:
I'm working on my RFPO and Open (shooting CO gun) as well. The RFPO times are so fast I've found if I shoot the CO gun first I shoot both better. CO warms up RFPO for the transition speed. I also tend to focus on controlling the recoil better when I shoot the centerfire first.
Just goes to show there's so many different ways to play the game!Thanks for the reply - I've been thinking about trying that - especially since I have some RFPO stages that are going to "time out" in August and my CO times are all recent. I'm thinking the RFPO should benefit if I do it that way. Thanks for confirming that it does work for some folks.
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4 hours ago, apoc4lypse said:
In most of the matches I've shot, only two guns were allowed so I usually shot optics, then irons, of each low ready division - RFR, RFP, PCC. RFPO was the last one I was working on so I shot that first followed by CO.
I do think it's useful to pair those as my splits for CO are comparable to my RFPO splits, maybe .05 second slower. So shooting RFPO first would be a good warmup for CO. Same for RFRO/PCCO.
In the last match I shot four guns - RFRO/PCCO/RFPO/CO in that order.
Thank you, I have been doing RFPO and then CO at matches to kind of get in the groove with the 22 and hope that my CO would benefit. It's been pretty good as I have been getting a couple personal bests in each and although they are only slightly better, they make the match much more enjoyable.
Shooting 4 guns - dear Lord, they'd need to carry me off the last stage. lol
Thanks again, I appreciate the reply.
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Very nice! Congratulations on accomplishing something few shooters will or can. Did you concentrate on one division until you achieved your goal before moving on to another or did you shoot multiple divisions if it was offered at the match.
I'm not at GM level, but I'm trying to get to M with CO and RFPO and have been shooting both divisions at each match. I'm wondering if I'd be better off concentrating on only one each match until I get there. Any advice?
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15 hours ago, ZackJones said:
"They" could be anyone :). If you say you emailed me and I didn't reply then I know whose ass to chew :).
As it happens, I got a reply yesterday (Wed. 5/12)
There is no set schedule. We will notify the membership when this is done.
Thank you.
Rick Brotzel
Director of Information Technology
United States Practical Shooting Assoc.
1639 Lindamood Ln Burlington, WA
t: +1 (360) 855 - 2245 (ext 105)
e: rick@uspsa.org | w: http://www.uspsa.org/
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8 hours ago, ZackJones said:
By rule we (USPSA) are required to perform an analysis of the PST's. We do that upon completion of WSSC each year. We did it for 2020 and will be working on 2021 review shortly. We look at a ton of different factors such as how many competitors, regardless of current classification, shot faster than the current PST. How many GM's shot below, etc. Our analysis is presented to President Mike Foley who then presents it to the BoD for final review and approval.
One way to simplify the process is to set the 100% PST time equal to the current world record for that division and stage. For some odd reason I can't seem to get anyone to sign off on that idea :).
Also for anything related to Steel Challenge don't email "them" email me - that's my job - zack@uspsa.org
Thanks for the reply - didn't know "they" weren't the right guys - thanks for the heads up.
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4 hours ago, nso123 said:
Now, I will say that the lack of availability of ammo will hurt us more than a change in peak times. Matches are dropping off in attendance. If it happens long enough you’ll see people finding new hobbies. I have already seen one local competitor who was at every match imaginable go to a new hobby because he can’t get ammo.
You have a great point during these particularly challenging times.
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10 hours ago, euxx said:
See my point regarding the objective.
The USPSA is really far past the point when they need two separate classifications (for both SCSA and USPSA). One for the PRO shooters and the other one for the mere mortals who are paying to keep organization alive.
Alternatively they could remove the PROs from all classification-based standings at matches (say if competitor ever placed at the top 10..15 at the Nationals), so the regular competitors can have a chance to fight for the top M, GM awards.
I like your thoughts. Now try to get the USPSA to do something about it when I can't even get an answer on changing the peak times. Anyway, I think you are on the right track. Thanks.
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On 5/5/2021 at 8:56 PM, euxx said:
Looking at the past years of USPSA classifier changes, they are not going to tell you. But try to contact them and ask. Guessing here won't really give you an answer.
I would have thought they could take absolute best stage times, aggregate them and give some extra margin to make it tough for GMs.
It wasn't how it was done last year. But then again maybe it wasn't the objective and they just wanted to lure more people to get a GM coin and participate in matches and make money for the org. Low peak times would serve that objective.
What also puzzle me is why no new stages being added...
I did send a message, but the answer must be the equivalent to the launch codes. I'll rattle their cage again. I'm just curious more than anything else - doesn't really matter. I am curious when they will recognize that growing the sport includes keeping current members and if it's impossible to achieve the next level because the times are getting unrealistic, overall participation may drop.
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2 minutes ago, apoc4lypse said:
Hoops, thanks for crunching the numbers. I was already pretty convinced that most GMs shot at or slightly below the GM time on average so I hope they don't make significant changes to the peak times based on outlier performance from a select few participants.
I'm glad there are number crunchers on the job. I hope there are no changes.
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20 minutes ago, Hoops said:
Oops.........clean up on isle 7.........
M - 32 Shooters : 4 or 12.5% shot class or below
68/85%= 80.00 minimum score required.
Low Score: 71.18 / 95.53%
High Score: 108.98 / 62.40%
Median Score: 85.83 / 79.23%. = A Class
Standard Deviation-Score: 9.10
Standard Devation Low Score Range: 76.73/ 88.62%
Standard Deviation High Score Range: 94.92 / 71.64%
Thanks again - your basis is the same! Way above my head.
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3 minutes ago, Hoops said:
Does anyone have an understanding of the methodology that SCSA uses to determine universal peak times? In other words, how much mathamatical weight is given to those that shoot the sub-times vs the rest of the field?
Rimfire classes have been experiencing some low score from some very talented folks and the classes have attracted a wide age group. Most people marvel at the sub 60 matches but we don't tend to give as much attention to the rest of the field. The current RFRO score of 56.98 or 1.194% is impressive for sure. But how much weight is it given when evaluating Peak Times for all of the field fairly and representive of the SCSA shooter?
I decided to look at the WSSC April 2021 match for RFRO and how each class of shooter from GM to C faired against the current Peak Times. I copied an pasted each class from Practiscore to Excel and for each class to calculate Mean (Average), Median and Standard Deviation's to develop numbers to review. I will share my results below.
I applied the Standard Deviation formula SETEV.S to see where the lowest and highest scores would fall outside of the standard deviantion range. In my mind, this is important or otherwise each class and Peak Times could be overly influenced by the increadibly low scores and conversely, the highest scores that are perhaps due to age or other physical limitations.
If anyone else (more advance than me with stats) has done similar calculations using another approach, I would be interested to read about it.
RFRO Division WSSC April 2021
G - 52 Shooters : 18 or 34.60% shot class or below
68/95%= 71.58 minimum score required.
Low Score: 56.98 / 119.34%
High Score: 92.67 / 73.38%
Median Score: 73.73 / 92.23%. = M / Class
Standard Deviation-Score: 7.49
Standard Devation Low Score Range: 66.24 / 102.65%
Standard Deviation High Score Range: 81.22 / 83.73%
M - 32 Shooters : 4 or 12.5% shot class or below
68/85%= 80.00 minimum score required.
Low Score: 71.18 / 95.53%
High Score: 108.98 / 62.40%
Median Score: 85.83 / 79.23%. = A Class
Standard Deviation-Score: 9.10
A - 30 Shooters : 10 or 33.33% shot class or below
68/75%= 90.67 minimum score required.
Low Score: 80.56 / 84.41%
High Score: 110.32 / 61.64%
Median Score: 92.16 / 73.79%. = B Class
Standard Deviation-Score: 8.56
Standard Devation Low Score Range: 83.59 / 81.35%
Standard Deviation High Score Range: 100.72 / 67.52%
B - 22 Shooters : 9 or 40.9% shot class or below
68/60%= 113.33 minimum score required.
Low Score: 92.54/ 73.48%
High Score: 135.93 / 50.03%
Median Score: 110.21 / 61.70%. = B Class
Standard Deviation-Score: 10.93
Standard Devation Low Score Range: 99.28 / 68.50%
Standard Deviation High Score Range: 121.13 / 56.14%
C - 7 Shooters : 7 or 100.00% shot class or below
68/40%= 170.00 minimum score required.
Low Score: 104.98/ 64.77%
High Score: 137.83 / 49.34%
Median Score: 112.09 / 60.67%. = B Class
Standard Deviation-Score: 14.00
Standard Devation Low Score Range: 98.09 / 69.32%
Standard Deviation High Score Range: 126.09/ 53.93%
I think I got the number posted as I calculated. Old eyes strained
so I wouldn't be surprised for a little dyslexia to have kicked in.
Based on this I would not look at reducing Peak Times this year.....but that's me. I am sure there is much more detailed statistical method for SCSA to use to crunch the huge data base they must have.
Anyway.............food for thought.
You math guys/gals........be kind
Hoops, that is amazing stuff. Thank you very much for all that work. I for one really appreciate your efforts and I hope you are right!
Thanks again!
3 minutes ago, Hoops said: -
8 minutes ago, nso123 said:
Just remember, you probably shoot a couple of strings that are plenty good for a personal best on each stage. Don’t go into the stage trying to set a PB. Get a couple of solid strings and then swing at one. If you pull it off, that one string might be enough for a cut. Also, one of the best in the game told me the easiest place to pick time up is on the first shot. Even cutting just .05 off of your first shot translates to .2 on a stage.
Great advice - thanks!
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11 hours ago, jrdoran said:
My guess is anything with low ready start + CO will have reduced Peak times. Gotta keep working harder Jamie and don't forget the lucky rug !
I'm working on it, there's a lot of power in that rug, but not enough to catch guys like you!
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11 minutes ago, nso123 said:
My understanding is that the SCSA folks meet to discuss the peak times at least once per year. I don’t think WSSC is the only factor, but there have been lots of fast times posted since last year. Another substantial drop in peak times won’t surprise me.
Thanks, yeah, a substantial drop is why I'm interested. If they leave it alone for the rest of the year I might have enough matches to make some improvement, but in RFPO for instance, I'm having to go faster than I like to try for a best stage and I'm missing more than I can afford. And looking at KC with his 57 second match at WSSC just makes me wonder even more. I have more room with CO, but I'm not sure how much room as I just started shooting it last year.
Thanks again for the reply, I appreciate it.
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You are welcome - Check out KC's RFPO - every stage under 10 seconds! 57 second match. Makes me sick with envy!
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Try here: https://practiscore.com/results/html/d15ba750-b43d-4c0b-9ce3-f8687272d6bc
I'm not sure about my linking skills, let me know if this is what you were looking for.
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I sent a message to the Steel Challenge folks asking the same question.
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On 5/2/2021 at 10:54 PM, PatJones said:
You'll find the steel challenge folks over here:
Thanks.
RIP Jim Scoutten
in Last Shot Fired
Posted
RIP, Jim! I really enjoyed everything he did and got the chance to meet him at the 2014 NRA annual meeting - top notch man!