IVC

Which primers? It couldn't fill a single tube of WSP for me, no matter how much I tried to adjust it...

The only part from DAA that consistently didn't work was their "primer systems." Even this one seems to address the problems that don't exist and not address the problems that do - jamming around the drop chute. The collator version, which I own (it's on the shelf, not usable), jammed at the drop point. The problem wasn't upside down primers, not flipping them, or even primers getting stuck in some pickup sites, the problem was primers not dropping. If anyone is interested, I have Dillon primer filler and two versions of DAA primer systems for sale... cheap. Lol. I'm back to manual pickup for running a manual 1050 and not looking back. Until there is a proper collator system that works for automated presses I'm not switching.

"Confirming" means that what you see in dry fire is the correct thing to see. In other words, what the dry-fire lacks is the confirmation of the acceptable sight picture (ASP), correct trigger pull (TP) and sufficient follow-through (FT). You must provide these elements of technique as a conscious and honest input into your dry-fire. It's not really that people are dishonest in dry fire, it's more that they don't know whether the combination of ASP-TP-FT is good enough to match the live fire. When you "confirm" your dry-fire, you shoot the same way as you would in a dry-fire session and you make sure that the shots are where you called them. Nothing more and nothing less. If the shot is where you made the mental picture of it, and if it's at the same speed as dry-fire, you're done.

There isn't an exception in the safety sense, it's adaptation of rules to the addition of rifles to a pistol match. Much like PCCs can be carried in hand where pistols can't, there are similar rifle-specific rules that work for rifles but not for pistols. For those of us who are not grumpy about it it's not a safety violation or exception.

Sure USPSA could change the rules this way, modify parts of section 10.5.x, and allow holstering of guns at the berm. But I would vote against such a change, as would many others. I would vote for "no berm exception for PCC" way before voting for extending handgun handling outside the safety areas. In fact, USPSA has been *strengthening* safety area requirements over the years, adding requirements for boundaries and alike.

DQ under 10.5.14 would be the rule preventing you from coming back to the horizontal PCC if it was on the ground. Correctable 5.2.1.4 if it was on the cart. Neither 5.2.17 nor abandoning apply once you leave. Former because you're no longer casing/uncasing (the gun is uncased and *not* under your control), latter because it's a multi-gun term for actions during a COF.

I would say 5.2.1.4 and 10.5.14. Leaving uncased PCC at the berm is either storage, which requires it to be vertical (ok to leave it on your cart), or it's a dropped gun and it's a DQ if you pick it up, even if close to the berm (must be picked up by an RO). So, if you uncase PCC and leave it pointing to the berm, you can't pick it up later because you're NOT "casing/uncasing at the berm" at the time you're picking it up, which are the only actions allowed. You're picking up a dropped gun. But if you place it on your cart or any similar "rack" AND you keep it vertical, then you can retrieve it and carry it around with no issues.

The difference is that the moment you hold your handgun outside the case it's a DQ because you're never allowed to have it in your hand (unsupervised, outside the safety area), while with PCC the moment you take the bag off you have the PCC in an allowed carry position. If you wanted to make it comparable, you would have to allow carrying of handguns in your hand with the muzzle in vertical position (the only way to avoid sweeping). Only then would the argument of "no difference" stand. Handguns and rifles don't have the same safety profiles if carried in hand. From militaries, to law enforcement to any competitive shooting event, rifles and pistols are treated differently when it comes to "transport" and what constitutes "handling."

Again, you're absolutely correct. But this is a discussion forum and *discussing* the rules is the purpose of the thread. Yes, we could all just say "look at the IPSC rules" and be done with it... But that's not what folks want to get from these threads.

I'm not sure I agree with this. There is no *specified* time limit, but if you leave a PCC by the berm, you're *not* "casing/uncasing," you're "storing." It's not about abandonment, it's about plain reading of the rules - you can case/uncase at the berm, but if you want to store it, it must be according to the other rules.

The question in the end was indeed about IPSC, but the core of the discussion and reasoning is about the USPSA rules. The OP even starts with the *USPSA* rule 5.2.1.7, then shifts to the differences between USPSA and IPSC. You're not technically wrong, but c'mon, it's about the uncasing of the PCCs and whether the rules are appropriate, IPSC or USPSA...

No problem, as long as the muzzle is pointed in the proscribed direction. A newbie uncasing at the line might earn himself an unintended DQ.

No, a pistol shooter would get DQ-ed for that. Pistol must be either holstered or bagged *before* "Range is Clear" command. PCC don't [sic]. Many ranges have one centralized safety area, far away from some stages. That's the practical problem. If every stage was required to have a safety area and it was always close by, sure - make it a requirement that PCCs are handled only at the safety areas. Note that handling still requires a berm, so it cannot be done if there is no berm.

Because of what happens next - PCC doesn't go into holster, it's carried to the line. You can't do that with the pistol. The question isn't why we wouldn't do that with a pistol (there is really no need, pistols are in the holster; even if they are in the bag, they can be unbagged at the line); the question is whether PCCs should be *prevented* from doing it. If so, they would have to run to the safety table as they are on deck, and they would have to go there again after scoring. This would force safety tables in many more locations, something that is not necessary when just pistol shooters are around.

Do you want something that is "single stage plus," or you want something that you set up, QC and then get consistent ammo out of it? In this situation, you get what you pay for, but you still get to decide what it is that you *need.* Personally, I would go with the setup that will allow you to grow, where you can use it to process brass or load, where you don't have to perform multiple operations with one die due to limited number of available stations. Dillon 550 is certainly a very capable press, but I'm not a fan of those types of presses - if you want to produce ammo in quantity, it's not the optimal setup and the only reason to go with it is to save a few bucks upfront; if you want to go slow and one at a time, a single stage is the way to go. It's almost that it's a middle ground where it's the worst, not the best of both worlds. And it's by no means cheap after you add the missing parts. Disclosure: My main press is 1050, but I also have a Forster Coax next to it. I considered getting a cheaper progressive to dedicate to, e.g., brass processing, but didn't find anything that would work well - a 550 gets expensive quickly when you add basic automation (case feeder, bullet feeder, etc.), while still lacking quite a bit of crucial elements compared to the 1050/1100.

Two problems here. First, safety tables aren't everywhere. Second, and more importantly, PCC are allowed to be carried (not holstered/cased), so you'd be taking them *outside* the marked area in your hand, no matter what. It's either PCCs have to be cased and uncased at the line, or they get an exception for casing/uncasing as a good compromise. Note that if there is no suitable berm, it's already the way you'd like to have it - safety table only.

There is no problem with *cased* and *flagged*. This is equivalent to a holstered *cold* handgun. There is also no problem with *vertical* and *flagged* for transportation, either in hand or on a cart. This is equivalent to transporting gun in a holster (but sweeping is different, as it should be - no sweeping if holstered/cased, sweeping if hand held, same as with handgun). The question is about the "berm rule" where PCC is *handled* outside the safety table. Should this be allowed? Why not just have the same rules as for handguns, where the only allowed handling is at the safety table. The answer is that safety tables are not as readily available and that the alternative, to force PCC shooters to bring cased rifles to the starting position, is not practical.

One more thing... Change optics and mount. Or, use a vise and measure groups. Faulty mount or optics could be all that's going on.

Don't mess with the action and parts that are not directly related to accuracy. You're not fine tuning, you're trying to find a huge problem. Do the plunk test, confirm bullets aren't hitting the rifling. While you might want to play with this later, a small gap will ensure you're not deforming the round by randomly pushing the bullets in. The inaccuracy from a large gap is order of magnitude smaller than what you're seeing, so it won't matter for what you're trying to determine. Chrono the bullets. You want to confirm *consistency* much more than any specific velocity. Large SD will indicate problems with ammo or delay in the blowback. Take off the flash hider, shoot without it. Confirm velocity distribution. Even if it looks like it's not the problem, you have to eliminate variables. You want bullets coming out at the same velocity and not hitting anything. Use proven bullets such as HAPs for testing. You need to know that the bullets are consistent and not getting sheared on the way out. Feed one round at a time, making sure you close the bolt slowly if you have a forward assist. You want to make sure rounds aren't damaged or changed during chambering. At this time, you have to have just a barrel, chambered round and locked (closed) breech. If the breech is the problem, you should see variability in velocity. Anything other than the barrel (on both ends) and ammo is a minor issue compared to scattering at 25 yards.

If that's what she said...

I wouldn't correlate the two since you're at the low end of PF and things can deteriorate quickly. Normally, I would check the chrono first (direct sunlight can make it go crazy), but since you're getting FTE and no cycling, it appears that it's working correctly. The rest is about the load - before you get into brass, consider that you're comparing 165 to 180, bullets that are not only different weight, but significantly different length. If you're keeping OAL fixed, the 165s will have quite a bit more space in the case and will yield lower pressure. In fact, this alone could explain what you're seeing.

I wish my variance was as little as 0.001 - 0.003. Coated bullets and mixed brass even in principle won't produce that level of consistency - the bullet is seated by pressing off-center, towards the ogive, so the tip of the bullet is not touched and any deposit (coating or lead below) will change the OAL. Look at the bullets before you load them and you can see with naked eye that the tips are a bit off. Also, it's easy to measure the length of each bullet and you'll see variability. Note that this doesn't even mean that the base of the bullet is seated at different depth, the depth could be anything. But it will be close enough... Brass is another issue. I'm pretty sure that the press won't hold the brass within 0.001 at the seating die. Maybe at the sizing die, if overcammed, but not at other stations. You don't have a problem

Yes, probably not and no. The plate is designed for the standard competition calibers such as 9mm, 38 Super/SC, .40 and even .45 is pushing it a bit. I'm pretty sure that 44 Magnum is too tall and would cause issues, and 223 for sure doesn't work. But for 223 the Dillon basic plate works really well, where cases travel in tangent to the edge of the bowl and not perpendicular.

Swager with the large primer rod should be able to "detect" small primer brass. But messing with the primer pocket size... you're right, monkey pox on them. Lol.

The "I think" phrase is the mortal enemy of good RO-ing. If you're not sure, the break goes to the shooter and you don't mention it. Play the shooting plan back in your head, confer with other ROs, be sure before you make any call.