Blaize

thanks so much !!

this is the way…. Couldn’t agree more and this is coming from someone who loves the pistol shooting sports, but is deterred due to the nonsense rules/divisions that is USPSA.

which tungsten guide rod did you go with? I have the longer ones that fit my 5 inch slide but sticks out on the competitor, is there another one ?

Go to the Wolff gun springs website. They make a guide rod that will work for it and springs you can order different weights for it

the one on the website specifically for the compact models. It’s on the Armory craft site.

yes. If you order the stainless guide rod from Wolff gun springs it works in the competitor. I run the 13 lbs springs with 130 PF loads and it shoots really really nice. I also run the overwatch precision flat trigger and it is almost the best striker fired trigger I’ve ever used. The only ones I’ve felt better, and just by a little, are the Canik and Walther triggers. I bought a brass magwell from Floyd’s customs and man did it settle the gun down ever more. I plan on running this setup in limited optics in the future. accuracy is on a whole different level than any of the previous M&Ps. My competitor is more accurate than both of my 2.0s fitted with apex barrels.

Just an FYI for you guys, Armory craft makes a guide rod and spring kit that works really well with them. I have a pair of spectre comps I run in an outlaw league. I shoot both, one with irons one with a dot and they are superbly accurate and flat shooting. I run mine with 130 PF loads and the 11lb armory craft and guide rod. It’s really like cheating with them.

I’ve got one and had no issues. cleaned it and lubed it, even run an 11 lb recoil spring in mine and it’s great. The lock up between the barrel and slide is certainly tighter tha. Most legion X5s. It’s almost on par with my original X5s. , accuracy is as well. I thought it was a decent deal considering the dot itself sells for 600 bucks, and it’s by far the best red dot I’ve ever used, and I’ve ran them all just about.

i *think* so, they make flush length 18rd mags, so I’m pretty sure with a +5 base and maybe a follower swap it could be done, but I have not done it myself.

and you are exactly one of the people that are bad for the sport. Poor attitude, poor mindset about growing the sport. gotta do things the hard way just for the sake of it kinda guy. yeah people can easily pop off a magwell, it just doesn’t make any sense whatsoever. like the other poster mentioned about his group of friends coming out trying to shoot their “actual” carry guns…. Oh no.. wait, you can’t play with those here. this is why people are actively trying to start new leagues and there are plenty other outlaw matches and other types of shooting events for me to get too deep into USPSA. snd I’m not the only one, I personally know of dozens and dozens of shooters who feel the exact same way. eventually you will have fun playing in the sandbox all by yourself. Have fun buddy.

I would shoot that new US made P226 X5! I wouldn’t mind picking one of those up, but hard to justify the price when I can’t really play with it in any USPSA division.

I share that viewpoint also. Competing in other divisions and outlaw style matches, this seems to be proven over and over again. I think the power factor and the 9 major/ 40 caliber rule sets have more to do with it all than the guns themselves.

hey thanks for reading! I can see others point of view as well though that have been doing this a long time, and do have money invested in guns and equipment. personally though, I see this as one of, if not the biggest barrier to many people getting into the sport. guys just wanna take out their new Sig/Canik/2011/ whatever cool high cap 9mm minor pistol they just got, learn some skills, make friends and be competitive without having to load 9 major, or shoot 40 cal. And they can to a degree, but it’s like, “hey we know you just got this cool pistol with all these doo-dads in the box, but you can’t use them all here”, well, “you can but here’s the catch, your at a big scoring disadvantage”.

I’ve been following this thread a long time, I regularly read here, I value a lot of you guys opinions, but rarely post. here is an outsiders perspective on this, and USPSA in general. I personally know many other people share this opinion, but it’s just that, an opinion. i shoot frequently in a local club, PPC style matches. We have our own league that runs year round, with two divisions, open and limited. Irons or a dot. SAO, striker, DA/SA it doesn’t matter. No power factor although just about everyone runs loads well above minor PF. I shoot USPSA matches occasionally, and really enjoy them and the people there. I believe it develops many skills that transfer well into defensive skills, movement, etc. it’s a great sport! That being said, the equipment rules are frustrating. personally, I like striker fired polymer guns. Practical pistols I would carry or use on duty. I would have no problem allowing 2011’s in CO, they are becoming more and more common, people like them and I think their advantage is “perceived”. If you like that style gun and shoot it better, then go for it! my other biggest complaint, is CO is really the only high cap division I can shoot without a scoring disadvantage. I would love to be able to take my box stock striker guns that come with standard capacity 17-21 round mags (and a magwell!!!) load them up, and shoot an iron sight division without being at a scoring disadvantage, OR being forced to shoot 40 caliber. Yes I know there is production, and I shoot it sometimes also, but at least let us load up 15 rounds! finally, I think USPSA is failing to acknowledge the change in the weapons technology happening these days. Like I mention the magwell. So many pistols come from the factory now with these, but we can’t use them in production or CO? Just doesn’t make a whole lot of sense. Seems like for the longest time, competitive shooters have led the way in pushing the envelope on these technologies, now it’s the other way around. and I hear you….. well just shoot open! Many people don’t want to shoot 9 major for various reasons, the number one for me, is it’s a borderline unsafe load/cartridge. Does that mean people don’t do it safely, or know what they are doing? No I’m not saying that. You have to see things from the average guys perspective looking to compete. Most people don’t even know what the hell 9 major is. anyway, long post and if you read this, thanks. I hope I’m not stepping on anyones toes, being disrespectful etc. just some thoughts from someone who would love to dive deep into this gear sport, but kinda confused and frustrated with some equipment rules. I hope this brings about to decent discussion and not flames.

Get yourself a 5 inch M&P 2.0. even the slide profile is very very similar to a 1911, just a little wider, but grip angle, presentation and all are very, very much on par with a 1911. put a Timney trigger in it, and it will be under 3lbs with no spring changes. You drop in the trigger and a new sear and that’s it. It reliably lites off any primer I’ve run through it. the ONLY issue you might have out of one is accuracy. Out of the box, it’s not quite to the level of a good shadow 2 or 1911, however that’s easily fixed with fitting an APEX barrel to it. I’ve installed it on two of mine and they will shoot under 2 inches as 25 with good hand loads. Also, just today they released an aluminum frame version of the M&P although it only comes in a full size 4.25 inch barrel at the moment. Previous 2.0 slides do interchange with it however. I think this will be a VERY strong option in the near future.

I think the main difference in the fitment was in the slide somehow. I had a few legions afterwards, because they updated the optics cut, but I was very very disappointed with their accuracy and sold them. I tried many different bullets, powders, weights you name it, and they just wouldn’t shoot to acceptable accuracy. kinda disappointed really. I also have a first Gen X Carry that is even more accurate than my two X5s. im currently playing with a few Caniks and I am very very impressed with those pistols!

To share, here is my stock X5 non legion at 25 yards. This was shot offhand at 25 yards with a Sig Romeo 1 6 MOA dot. load is a 145gr Bayou Bullet, 3.0 grains of titegroup loaded to 1.15 OAL. Mixed range brass and CCI primers. I regularly shoot groups like this with this pistol, I have a pair of them, one I run with iron and one with the dot, they both shoot like this. OG X5s with the nitride barrel

Ngodwetrust21 would you’ve interested in selling your factory Rival trigger? I’m looking for one for my METE.

FWIW I had a legion X5 and sold it because the accuracy was terrible my original X5’s both shoot WAY better than any of the newer ones I have shot. I mean they are at a bullseye level of accuracy. i shot this group offhand at 25 yards, with a 6MOA dot on top of one of my X5s. They both shoot the same, lights out. load was Bayou 145’s over 3.0 gr of titegroup. I can’t remember the OAL right now I will have to check. of course the one flyer hit bullseye

Its what sig refers to as the tension when the slide goes into battery. The originals you had to let the recoil spring do all the work from slide lock, in order to go all the way into battery and lock up, it was so tight, which is good. i have found on the legions, the barrel unlocks easily and does not hang up out of battery if the full force of the recoil spring isn’t used.

Just to share my experiences, I have two early original X5’s. They both shoot my 145gr titegroup load, my 120gr titegroup load lights out. Like 1-2 inch accuracy at 25 yards. Finally got around to buying a legion, it was an April 2020 manufacture date. I couldn’t get it to shoot better than 3-4 inches at 10 yards. I swapped the legion top end on my original X5 grip and FCU, same deal. the barre lockup was very very noticeably worse. Sig has most certainly changed that in the newer designed barrels, in my opinion it was due to so many people complaining about the “pre tension” in the originals, where if you just rode the slide home instead of letting the recoil spring do it’s job, it would hang out if battery by about an 1/8 inch or so. i was extremely disappointed and sold my legion, but my original X5s continue to amaze myself and fellow shooters with their accuracy and performance

so explain this “tactical timmie” to me? Who is he and why is it a bad thing to get him involved in the sport? sure must have been a lot of tactical timmies hiding in the USPSA, due to the popularity of those two divisions

Seems like people “cried” for a PCC division and a hi cap minor division to run a dot, and *gasp* they are among the two most popular divisions right now! Crazy! Almost like people got together and discussed something and were like “yeah that WOULD be pretty cool!” also seems like everyone had an issue with both of these, complained about them, cried about them, and said they would never take off..... and here we are now.

Some HUUUURRRRT feelings in this thread!!!!

L10 exists because of communist states, as does the 10 round limit for production. production/CO allow weight up front on the pistol, but for some reason you have to pay an unreasonable amount of money for it IE: CZ and Sig. so I guess it’s OK to have it as long as one of the big sponsors says it’s ok? A *thumb rest [generic]* is OK? A tungsten guide rod, brass grip panels, slide lightening, all that stuff is fine. But using some common sense and running a light up front for 5 extra oz on a 26 oz pistol!? Out of the question sacrilege! Yeah you can shoot it that was in open at a severe points disadvantage shooting minor, but why? Who the hell wants to do that? I love the argument you all present “because rules”. You all act like the rules have never changed in this sport and it shouldn’t evolve. Like I said before, this is why the sport isn’t growing like it should.