Hoops

From what I understand, yes. I believe the other factor are the low scores being shot by a group of young, talented shooters at the WSSC match. But if you look at the percentages developed by @jrdoran and @GKB (incredible work) the GM overall percentages don’t look to be too many. However, they could be based on disproportional overall percentages in lower classes. The WSSC focus, in my opinion, even capping the performance percentage at 1.10%, is not broad enough and is hurting the lower class shooters as has been highlighted in previous posts. It’s not factually correct to say that a division peak time has been lowered by a single X second when the math shows it’s more for the down class shooters. Why do they (BOD’s) keep lowering Peak Times? Certainly not clear to me nor is the methodology. Toss in the dropping of 2021 and earlier and the system gets even more complicated for most seniors. But that’s for another discussion.

I’ve outlined it several times. 1. Peak Times heavily skewed based on WSSC match as outlined/stated in SCSA rules. 2. As an advocate of all SCSA shooters, the math/mechanics of Peak Time reduction disproportionately impacts down class shooters. 3. Looking at the distribution of the number of shooters per class, there is indication, to me, that the current percentages by classification should be reviewed. A 5 point shift, putting GM at 1.00, which I have done for RFRO, based on the 4500 +- shooters, levels out the total numbers within each class. 4. The 4 best of stages without Outerlimits or Speed Option is a factor, but I believe the real fundamentals fall in Items 1,2 and 3. This is my opinion. It may not bear out but I have given this a lot of thought and done a lot of math. The development of the 15000 Ranking has been very useful. i would encourage debate on this. I may not be looking at other factors.

I realize this may not be a popular position, but classifications will not be resolved by Peak Times alone. SCSA is not USPSA and copying the classification percentages and minimum classifiers from USPSA is perhaps not the best metric.

Absolutely. Why the A, B, C and to some degree M, classes continue to be pushed back more than GM class remains a mystery to me.

I did a manual re-calculation of RFRO only based on the above class percentage changes and it appears to me to be a more balanced range for C to M. Unfortunately I couldn’t figure out how to insert the file properly. I’ll give it another try later.

I’m with you. I don’t see too many based on your percentages but each year when Peak Times are reviewed there has been “background “ USPSA.org comments (maybe just noise) about the number of GM’s in SCSA. Whenever peak times are lowered to counter this, I have said the impact of reduced times is felt more in the A, B, C and D classes. A 1.00 second reduction for .95% GM is 1.05 and: M=1.18, A=1.33, B=1.66, C=2.5, D=variable. You had mentioned how it appears B shooters may get stuck. My thought about changing class percentages was more about the down classes than the upper classes. It was just an exercise suggestion just to see if my theory about down class impact has merit.

This is excellent presentation. Clearly the more people shooting a division influences ratios. i know this would be a PITA, but I wonder what the impact would be based on: GM 100%~up M 85%~99.99% A 70%~84.99% B 55%~69.99% C 40%~54.99% D 0~39.99% just an equity thought. My guess is B and A may look reasonable and the “problem “ with too many GM’s (per USPSA.org….not me saying) may be corrected?

Here we go. @jrdoran and @GKB have spent significant personal hours to create the 15,000 database and the tables showing the breakdown by division and classification. As predicted, members are now beginning to raise questions about how classifications can be earned, minimum stages, etc. I have posted several topics on this subject over the past two years….including Peak Times. Yes, a member can make GM shooting only 4 stages. In fact, under Level 1, matches can have only 2 SCSA stages to be official…..and have scores posted for class and division.

You are correct. I just looked it up. Thanks

Anyone know Jesse M? I wonder why there has been no participation in the WSSC matches. Clearly super fast....awesome.

@GKB thank you

@jrdoran your 15,000 Ranking topic has provided additional excellent data for divisions, classifications and GM times in actual numbers. I believe the information under your topic there also gives insight into Peak Time and Classification percentages which should probably be posted here in this topic to avoid “drift” under the ranking topic. I’m collecting data for commenting here at a later date. It’s a Work in progress at the moment. Great information you’ve developed.

Some could be just passing thru. But for some of us there is that ceiling

Interesting that about 45% of the GM's RFRO are .95% to .9999% (<100%).

One of the reasons that retention syle holsters with the press in mechanism is not legal is when the lever was depressed by the trigger finger on the draw, the result was the trigger finger would often drag up and fall inside the trigger guard. Not safe plus DQ. Plus they are not what you want for fast clean draw. I ran a Bladetech holster for years. Inexpensive and good quality.

@GKB thanks. No rush. I think it will be interesting to see.

Would it be too much to ask you to add the numbers of A and M class by each division to the detail chart?

That’s impressive. I’m all to familiar with this……ex-wife several years ago and daughter last year….both are fine now. Good luck to you and prayers for a full recovery.

The percentage of GM’s in your spreadsheet was lower than what I would have guessed. So I was just wondering why USPSA.org thinks there are too many GM’s and subsequently uses the WSSC matches as basis of evaluating Peak Times. About 15%-18% of classified GM’s shoot at GM times for the WSSC 8 stage match. comparing ratios of the WSSC to your spreadsheet may not correlate equally? BTW….i like your spreadsheet. At least it shows classifications and percentages against the “field “.

I will lose little over 4.00 seconds PCCO Master but will just barely hang on to 85.00%. RFRO very similar. Next year I’m hosed. No way at 72 and physical issues I’ll be able to maintain M class scores.

No. SCSA Classification previously earned will not change. BOD will allow for a down class change if requested.

I’m biased about barrels. My experience and others on this forum plus my friends is the Wiland barrel doesn’t produce enough pressure to properly AND reliably move the bolt…..even with lite recoil spring. It works until it doesn’t. Reliability was out issuer. For SCSA, the Briley Raptor lightweight 16 1/2” barrel is a good choice. Essentially we believe any 16 1/2” barrel is the way to go….there are a number of good options.

The BOD folks that evaluate Peak Times use the WSSC as the basis for change. Perhaps one other Area match. I don’t know the data. Is this comparable to your spreadsheet I don’t know. What I have read is BOD concerns that there are too many GM’s….hence lowering peak times? Perhaps it’s me comparing apples to oranges?

questions. 1. Is this a new issue you’re having? 2. Are you running a standard or lite wt recoil spring? 3. Any ejection issues? 4. HV or StdV ammo?

Before I make my initial thoughts on this I wonder what the percentages would look like taken from the 2023 WSSC?