broadside72
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Posts posted by broadside72
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If you scale the targets in the diagram, it looks like 4ft to the shoulders.
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3 minutes ago, J_Allen said:
I think the example of options - running vs taking the longer shot - is not reality. Take bay 1 of Area 3, it’s like 75 yards long and they used to set up the stage to allow just that option. But NOBODY chose to run, the default was pretty much just take the longer shots. Didn’t matter if it was irons or dot divisions either. So you either force everyone to run long between required positions or you don’t. In a sport where tenths (I won’t say hundreths!) of seconds can make a difference in scoring, a forced run of many seconds doesn’t seem to be warranted. Just my opinion.
When you build such a stage, you need to have a few folks make the run from the various spots you could run from and determine the time it will take on average. Then you need to assess the time required for hard aimed shots. If you can design them so the run is the same as aiming or even slightly longer, then there are options to the stage plan for most shooters. Give the physical person the ability to outrun their aiming and points down, and give the better shot a chance when a less physical person.
It is a hard thing to balance. I have tried it twice. The first time, the target presentations were too hard from the far position so most folks ran and that was the only legit option. The second time was much better, easier targets but still a challenge. Most folks still chose to run but most of them didn't even realize the targets presented from the other locations.
I won't build those kinds of stages very often as it is very hard to balance it. -
Topics like this are why we hold a new to comp shooting class every 1-2 months. A single long day to cover the biggest rules, how scoring works, equipement rules, teach about things like walls and fault lines in a classroom, then go onto the range and cover lateral movement with a reload and uprange movement with a reload since most are from a square range or a 360 degree world since they aren't used to our 180 limits.
Then we move to an actual stage and how to understand and use a WSB, how to approach a stage, the tape and reset process, and how to be a good squad mate. Help them prepare for their first match.
We cover parking lots, CCW/duty folks and how to proceed as well upon arrival to a match.It's been well received and we often have a waitlist each time. 2/3 of the students actually start shooting matches.
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8.1.8 was fine as it was. clarifying something is okay too I guess, but other than division rules that were "its only legal only allowed if stated the rules", the rest of the rules philosophy has always been "its legal unless we say otherwise". And they didn't say otherwise.
The coaching thing is a PITA. An RO can't be 100% sure the shooter heard or followed the coaching but gets penalized regardless. I really hope ROs are smart about applying such penalties, in both SCSA and USPSA. I like how they clarified where to apply the penalty on the coach, but it screws the shooter more.
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P10F is a nice shooter. I use mine for both USPSA and SCSA, though mostly SCSA. Its my backup for USPSA. I EDC a P10C.
The P10 has a slightly lower bore axis, and smaller slide so less reciprocating mass. The grip angle of the front strap is the same between the two but the beavertail angles are a little different. Both are good guns so it will be the ergos that define which one you like probably.
https://www.handgunhero.com/compare/cz-p-10-f-vs-canik-tp9sf
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Since "range" is not defined in the rules, what would a reasonable person outside the shooting world determine makes up a "range"? If it does not include the parking lot on the property that zoned as a shooting range/facility, where is that line between the range and parking lot?
Where I most commonly shoot, the parking lot is at grade and the action bays are below grade (the area allocated to the USPSA match per 2.5.1). There is a fairly clear separation.But what about CMP or Cameo where you can park along the road that connects the bays? Where is the separation between the parking lot and the range where rules apply? If you can't clearly and consistently define that line then I can have my loaded gun anywhere but inside the bays themselves under some folks' parking lot theory.
I have never been to an outdoor range (an actual shooting facility zoned as such) that has not been fenced in. To me, that makes the entire property a "range" and includes the parking lot. Indoor ranges are different with publicly accessible parking lots.
Yes this was long-winded.
Just stay loaded and find an RO and have them clear you when you arrive. Then find an RO to get loaded up again after the match. Or find the designated areas for that. I know that people remove their guns in the cars often. I do it when going places I can't have it. I would much rather use a designated area or have an RO watch me since I find it safer than trying to do it all in the car though. -
2 hours ago, motosapiens said:
or maybe you just shoot classifiers like any other stage instead of swinging for the fences. the hero/zero. mentality combined with foleys flawed logic in adjusting the hhf’s has made it difficult to get high scores without unacceptable (to me) risk, so i just stopped paying very much attention and worry about my match scores.
My post was mainly to stir things up for discussion simply because those the three basic comments I hear from others when this topic comes up.
Personally, while I care that I do consistently well with general improvements in classy results over time, I am not obsessed with them. In fact, a hero or zero run I did for fun kind of burned me, bumping me with two lucky shots I called as misses, when I can't perform like consistently at a match.
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If you find your own overall match performance both locally and at majors is generally aligning with your classification (and you aren't sandbagging) then the classification system is working fine, assuming that the distributions of classes in the match is normal
If you find your match perf is lower than your class then you are shooting only the classifiers that don't reflect typical match/stage shooting challenges and the system is flawed.
If you find your match perf is higher than your class then you are a sandbagger and the system is flawed.
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38 minutes ago, zzt said:
because you are the only one in it.
I'd still end up third place...
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1 hour ago, shred said:
You could argue It cut completely through the target paper and was then stopped by the stick. Does that count? IDK. An edge hit doesn't really pass 'completely' through the target either.
I still think its a large piece of splatter.
In the first pictures posted, the middle ridges of the cardboard are still present and appear under the bullet, so not a full penetration IMO. The second picture could be an edge hit and scored as a NS. Determining if that is a radial tear resulting from the bullet skimming across it is difficult to tell though. I'd probably force a reshoot on this second one since it can not be properly scored.
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9.5.9 says that is not a hit as it didn't pass complete through the target. The target stick, though in theory it does not exist per the rules, prohibited the round from passing through. Thus not a hit.
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10 minutes ago, motosapiens said:
its not necessarily about the scores being similar or different. its about the fact that striker and da guns will disappear from co entirely if they have to compete with 2011s. see limited and open for good examples of this.
regarding “getting smoked” in open….. major is only worth 3-5%. if you weren’t close shooting minor, you won’t be close shooting major either.
its more than just shooting major. frame mounted optics, compensators, 7+ extra rounds in a big stick contribute to the advantages in open. kind of why everyone hates getting bumped to open as the vast majority can't compete against those things with their "regular" guns.
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The only reason I accept that LO and CO are separate divisions now is that I can shoot the same gun Saturday and Sunday at our match and not get totally smoked in open. However, I still think there is not enough differentiation in the results to justify the separate division.
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36 minutes ago, Racinready300ex said:
Exactly my thinking. There is to much information we don't really know, so we're just speculating.
The org spent 300k on travel expenses on 2022. How much of that is for nationals? That number seems like a lot. Maybe a break down of that would be helpful too.
Since every nationals includes a member meeting now, that means any AD and the pres can expense their travels to any nats event
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22 minutes ago, Sarge said:
I’ve always believed this. When I first started I thought it was nuts that Nationals was available in one way or another to anybody.
Exactly. It's like saying the Cowboys can go ahead and pay to compete in the SuperBowl every year
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Make nats an actual national championship that you earn your way into. Points from sectional and area matches get the top X shooters in each division invited (right of first refusal) and need to pay to shoot, at a single nationals event. Staff gets to shoot the match for free and maybe a per diem and maybe even lodging/travel allowance.
When was the last time a full-time nats staffer actually won nats anyway? If you chose to "volunteer" to staff you get your pass to nats since you are "earning" the slot via working rather than being a good shooter and earning the points.
The costs should go way down with that model, at least not losing money multiple times per year. -
On 1/8/2024 at 2:27 PM, Darqusoull13 said:
Yes, I picked it up from WSSC years ago. You wrap the 2x4 with duct tape about 4 inches above and below the bottom line of your target. This way when shooters have a perfect wind call but elevation is a bit off you can take more hits before shooting out the board.
Only 4"? Man you guys must have some decent shooters at your place!. LOL.
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On 1/8/2024 at 1:09 PM, bravobravo said:
This sounds like an interesting tip that I am unaware of.
Could you explain exactly what you do with duct tape?
Is the idea to wrap the 2x4 with DT just below the target?
tia
Wrap it like a hockey stick or baseball bat grip tape would be. From just above the bottom of the plate to about 1/3 of the way down.
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1 hour ago, IVC said:
Sure USPSA could change the rules this way, modify parts of section 10.5.x, and allow holstering of guns at the berm. But I would vote against such a change, as would many others. I would vote for "no berm exception for PCC" way before voting for extending handgun handling outside the safety areas. In fact, USPSA has been *strengthening* safety area requirements over the years, adding requirements for boundaries and alike.
As my original comment states, the PCC exception is stupid.
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19 hours ago, Keyst0ne said:
And, bringing the discussion full circle to my original question, pushing PCC shooters to uncase at safe tables would promote leaving PCCs stacked up on safe tables ready to unbag (or already unbagged), potentially out of sight of the competitor. Given there are no rules on leaving a gun unattended this would be legal per the rules, but have some obviously undesirable consequences.
That is their problem given their choice to shoot PCC. However, if they need to walk back to the table to get their rifle, then they can keep their rifle with them and carry it to the table to unbag it.
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1 hour ago, IVC said:
The difference is that the moment you hold your handgun outside the case it's a DQ because you're never allowed to have it in your hand (unsupervised, outside the safety area), while with PCC the moment you take the bag off you have the PCC in an allowed carry position. If you wanted to make it comparable, you would have to allow carrying of handguns in your hand with the muzzle in vertical position (the only way to avoid sweeping). Only then would the argument of "no difference" stand.
Handguns and rifles don't have the same safety profiles if carried in hand. From militaries, to law enforcement to any competitive shooting event, rifles and pistols are treated differently when it comes to "transport" and what constitutes "handling."
I am not talking about "at the moment" or being able to carry then in around in the hand but a change in rules to allow you to point your handgun at the berm while removing it from your bag or holster and directly placing it in the other since it is technically no different than what you can do with a PCC.
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22 hours ago, Boomstick303 said:
Really??
Is there a requirement in the rules where your pistol is required to be flagged?
Is there a safe area at every berm at every range?
Pretty unrealistic really.
No but its also not a DQ to not have a flagged PCC at the berm when you unbag it. It's a correctable issue per 5.2.1.4. What is the difference from me pulling my pistol out of the case safely and directly putting it in my holster versus pulling a PCC out of case and pointing the muzzle reasonably vertically and walking around? Here's a hint: here isn't any
21 hours ago, IVC said:Two problems here. First, safety tables aren't everywhere. Second, and more importantly, PCC are allowed to be carried (not holstered/cased), so you'd be taking them *outside* the marked area in your hand, no matter what.
It's either PCCs have to be cased and uncased at the line, or they get an exception for casing/uncasing as a good compromise. Note that if there is no suitable berm, it's already the way you'd like to have it - safety table only.
First, that is the compromise you make for shooting PCC. If you have to walk a little bit to a safe table or bag/unbag at the line, oh well. You chose to shoot PCC. There are plenty of pistol shooters with extended Make Ready routines so you can't argue that PCC doing it at the line will be a time issue.
Second, correct there is no rule prohibiting carrying a PCC safely anywhere on the range. In fact, 5.2.1.5 specifically allows for this. My comment was about the equity of the rules. If PCC shooters can handle their firearms outside the safe area within limits, why can't pistol shooters within limits (e.g. bag to holster, holster to bag)?The basic safety rules still apply as they would at a safe area.
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"PCC tables" are a stupid exception. PCC shooters should be required to use Safe Areas like everyone else. I can unbag my pistol at a berm just as safely as a PCC user, so why do I have to use the safe table?
When you are on deck, go uncase at the Safe Area and come back an wait or do it at Make Ready.
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On 12/28/2023 at 12:14 PM, old558 said:
I have Hornady LNL's for metallic reloading and have been very happy with them. Customer service has always been excellent. I also have a Dillon SL 900 shot shell re loader which has also been excellent and customer service is again outstanding.
Wish I could make your choice easy. For me it was what was available locally at the time. I don't think you can go wrong either way.
Others will be along soon to help.
Other than not being able to automate my LNL, I have been very happy with mine. I make 12-15k of 9mm per year on it with the Mr Bullet Feeder and Hornady case feeder. I like to use an RCBS lock out die so I am stuck with a combination taper/seater die but it works.
Caliber changes are easy enough. I have a powder drop setup for each one also, so I can just swap that out along with the dies. Only adjusting the case shuttle and pivot is the most difficult part for the different case sizes. Everything else is easy.
Mark7 will be my next one if I decide I need another machine, but I would never suggest anyone start out with one.
Range bay size minimums
in Travel, Locations, Ranges, etc.
Posted
Who says you need to have bays that are perpendicular to the centerline of the property? Its more dirt, but you can build some of the bays "sideways" so you enter at the uprange end of the side berm and turn left or right to get to the bay itself.
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