Angus46
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Posts posted by Angus46
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My oldest son purchased a smith and Wesson 629 performance center with a scope and I had my Apex M and P 9 CORE version. He really didn’t think handguns could shoot far, so I decided we would put it to the test. We set up a steel target I made first at 50 yards. No problem, he and I both hit center mass first shot. Then moved it out to 100 yds. I was able to hit it 5 out of 5 with out too much difficulty and he hit 4 out of five. Then moved out to 150. I had to start holding over a bit was amazed I was able to hit it 4 out of five. He took a bit more practice to get hits but did eventually. We finished with a bit over 200. I knew his 44 could do it but had no idea I could with my M and P. However, I was amazed to hit 2 of 5 two different times!
A lot to be said about the Apex products and what they can do!
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44 minutes ago, Bench said:
Sounds like you have the drill down!! I was able to go out shooting with a friend and took a look through his red dot on his PCC. Even though it was a PCC I was surprised that the dot was still there and in focus even though I was target focused. Thanks for the confirmation of being target focused and your drill. I have some work to do on a gun I"m prepping for production and moving my Beretta 92 towards a red dot.
With my M and P I usually am in the top 10 or so in the matches here. Today with going to Limited Major with my STI I was mid pack. Starting to question why I wanted to change guns and go from a dot back to open sights. LOL
I bet you will love the dot on your Beretta. My prediction in 10 years dots I’ll be more common than iron sights on pistols.
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Used a dot for quite a while on a M and P. I find the best way to use it is total target focus. Train your eyes to focus where you want the bullet to impact, (not looking at the sight at all) then move your hands/gun to where your eyes are focused. So for example, when I start a stage, I focus on a specific spot on the target, (not just the target). I then draw and in the process of driving the gun to the target the dot will come into view. I refine the picture depending on distance and hard cover/no shoots and press the trigger.
I did pracice a bit a bit with this and found what helped me most was dry fire practice presenting the gun. Work through those steps a few times picking a spot when I dry fired. Then do the same drill by picking the spot visually, focus intently on it, then close my eyes, present the gun and then open them after presenting the gun and pulling the trigger when I think I’m on target. Then I open my eyes and see if I’m actually on target. Suprizingly it didn’t take long and I was able to get this down where I’m almost always on target. This really helped me to train the mechanics of aligning my muscle memory/gun index to my visual focus. Then when shooting a stage, it became easy, my gun just continues to follow my eyes from target to target.
Dots are sooooooo much quicker than iron sights. Just shot limited division today with my DVC and wow. It had been a while since I used open sights and forgot how much more there is to do.
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Got some final answers, and solution to the odd marks. First off I asked a local reloading supply place Graf and Sons in St. Charles Mo. the guy first said he had never seen it either, then when I offered to show him the picture pretty much called me a liar and said I could do anything to a picture....I was stunned and after 35 years of going there, I’m done.
Also contacted Berry’s manufacturing through their website. I got an email back in a day or so and then they called on the phone. Like some on the thread have said he was certain it’s the plating coming off the lead core. The cause we had to determine. He indicated that over velocity or too tight of a crimp can cause problems with separation. I’m way under 1200 FPS so that was ruled out pretty quick. He had me pull a bullet and sent him pictures all looked good. Since I use range brass and dont trim the cases he had me do a test at my next range sesssion. It still occasionally happed with all the different case head-stamps. Then a I did some closer analysis the length of the marks are about the length of the base of the bullet. So it was the entire bearing area where the bullet engages the rifling, not a crimp issue.
Let Jason at Berry’s know the results of my testing and he asked I send him a few bullets to do some quality control tests on the bullets I had. So sent them his way took a while for them to get them via UPS and then they tested no abnormal results.
So he indicated they have seen this before although rarely with match quality barrels where the rifling and in some cases tight tolerances will cut through the plating, thus opening up a pedal of plating copper leaving the marks on the target, and of course at longer distances a pretty negative affect on accuracy. Solution, they have a thicker plated bullet and he gave me a deal on them for working with him. I was like great! Felt more like he was working with me to find out the problem. Very happy with their service and assistance. I’ve always liked Berry’s products now very happy with them. Graf and Sons on the other had.....I’ll never go back after being treated so negatively by a guy who was a total jerk.
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18 minutes ago, jkrispies said:
I’m baffled and am interested to hear the answer. If it’s the plating that would still involve mass moving at a high rate of soeed which would tear through to some extent. This is not a tear, it’s a rub. I’m more inclined to say that it’s a discoloration caused by heat or maybe some powder residue caught in the vortex that’s deposited when the vortex hits the cardboard? They are so uniform though... the plating does make sense but it should have punched the paper! How smokey is this load? What’s the specs on your load? Could be the plating “smoking off” if it’s super hot and your seeing the smoke from that caught in the vortex. Or, even more likely, if it’s an open base bullet the blue is vaporized lead trailing behind the bullet and smacking the paper like that when the bullet passed through... maybe...
Also, how accurate are the loads? If the bullets have a chunk of plating hanging off the sides then that should be reflected in some pretty horrible accuracy.
5.3 gr power pistol, it should just make major although I have not put it through a chrono to verify it. Just really getting started with this load and gun. I have not benched it at a distance for accuracy, but it seemed fine out to 10 yds. The first 20 shots I was able to punch the X ring out of a B-27 target offhand before transitioning to the USPSA targets. I was not amazing, accuracy, but didn’t see any issues that would have me worried and about as good as I can shoot offhand with other guns. Unfortunately I didn’t not keep that target to see I feel it did the same thing there.
The bulles are plated on all sides, so no lead is exposed. Power Pistol seems to burn pretty clean, not a lot of smoke.
The plating didnt quite make sense sense to me either, but looks just like an imprint of one of the rifleing grooves, just sideways and it does not cut through the cardboard. So whatever it was could not have hit with much force. I thought the same thing about the vortex/residue but the uniformity and angle from the hole each time excluded that for me too.
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That will be on the list then for next range session, always good to work on trigger press and accuracy anyway.
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That is what I assumed as well, but have shot thousands of rounds of plated bullets and never saw this befor either. When I crimp I just remove the bell, don’t really squeeze it down much on the bullet so I would not think they were over crimped.
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Also the target was free hanging 1/2 size cardboard USPSA target. They were not against anything.
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Thanks for all the replies so far. Yeah what you all are calling the blue marks were from the bullets. I didn’t put them there. If you look they were on the cardboard and pasters. It had to be something on the bullet hittting the target leaving those marks.
I only shot out to 10yds this range session. Was mainly working on transitions and speed. Next time I go I’ll move back to 25. That should be far enough to see if it’s tumbling don’t you think?
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Shot my STI DVC in 40 with Berry’s plated bullets loaded over Power Pistol with CCI primers. Noticed a few unusual marks around some of the holes and a bit baffled to figure out what caused it. Was not every shot, but enough to make me wonder. I feel like it had to be the bullet coming apart but being plated that didn’t seem to make sense. Any thoughts?
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I shoot a springifield EMP, normal shirt covering the gun just like I use when I carry every day. I do very well at local matches. I either win or 2nd in division and usually top 10 or better out of 50-80 shooters overall. While I realize I’m handicapping myself a bit with the gun, cover garment etc. I also realize that IDPA just like other shooting sports are a game but I also see it as good practice. Several draws, reloads, targets under pressure that I can’t do in any local ranges. To me, allows me to practice some skills I can’t in other places with a bit of pressure added.
I’m not doing it to become a championship IDPA shooter, just to get better at shooting, have fun etc. In my mind, that is the best reason for IDPA.
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Another suggestion,
In your third position, your gun is down, you stop, sight picture engage all four targets then leave the shooting position. They are close targets. Enter the position acquiring your sights knees bent ready to fire your first shot as you stop or ideally just before. Pick up the speed on those targets then transition to the last ones. As you are finishing on the last target, start your transition to the next spot by shifting the weight on your legs a bit load them to be ready to go. Then try to be moving out of the position or as least ready to as you are making your last shot. Don’t wait until after you are done shooting to do this.
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Update to all and wanted to say thanks for all the help.
I got a call last week and they indicated problems with the specs of the barell that was originally in the gun, so they are fitting a new one, getting it coated and supposed to send it back in a few weeks. So will be a while before I’m ready to use it in competition but still excited to see what it can do and I get a chance to practice with it a bit.
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Wasn’t too terribly long, ended up being about a 35 yard shot. However, what I shot at was the best. A few of my buddies were shooting trap with shotguns at a farm I used to go to. I didn’t have my shotgun so was mainly running the trap house for them. They weren’t doing all that great so I was giving them a bit of trouble about it. So half joking I told them I could hit it with the only gun I had. A Ruger sing six 22. So... I call for pull, cock the gun, squeeze the trigger and broke the bird in mid air. I was aiming but totally amazed I hit it.
I should have stopped there and not tried to repeat it.....LOL
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Quick update. Got an email on Monday with a packing slip and also a phone call. They want to take a closer look at the gun so it went off in the mail today.
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Looks like they were thinking a bit backward in that day. No idea how a gun can get out of a factory with the front sight on wrong.
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Yigal,
thank you you for the update from someone with the same gun. That is really helpful.
Iv’e spent some time this morning trying to figure out what the issue is. I compared it to my other 1911’s (both are Springfield’s) They have .013 clearance between the hood and slide, the STI has .012. So not much difference there. Then I assembled them without the recoil springs, and seeing how much the barrel would move right when it’s out of battery. No question the STI has way more play left to right when and if you apply a torque to the barrel it will rotate some. In both instances, it moves enough that it does contact the slide. Neither of the other 1911’s would do that.
So the only thing I could think is the thickness of the barell where the link/feed ramp is too narrow, or the slide was cut too wide. As far as I can tell this would be the only thing that would control the barrel alignment when it’s not in battery. The fitting of the link and slide lock seems to be ok.
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ill See what they say. I found my email from the warranty dept that I sent a few weeks ago about the same issue and replied to it as well as submitted another concern to them again. I got a reply back they are out of the office and won’t be back until next week. So as soon as I hear from them again I’ll certinaly post an update.
Meanwhile looks like like I’ll be shooting my other guns for a while in upcoming competitions.
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Well I certinaly hope that they will address it. I saved up almost 3 years to try to buy what I was hoping would be my first quality pistol. I really appriciate everyone’s feedback and information.
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13 minutes ago, RangerTrace said:
You need to speak to Ryan in warranty.
That is who I was working with. Said it was signs of a well fitted barrel and normal wear. Here is the email I received from STI after I sent them the pictures. (Paragraph below) The slide and frame are well fit as is the barell in battery and the accuracy is great. Just worry when metal is hitting metal.
I have reviewed your pictures and have some good news! Those wear marks are perfectly normal for an STI pistol. We fit our dimensions extremely tightly to provide superior accuracy and recoil transfer when compared to other 1911 style pistols; rubbing on your barrel hood, bore, and chamber are all good signs of a tightly fit barrel.
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Yeah, I sent them the pictures and that is what they told me, normal wear.
So I have resent another email to STI’s warranty department and will ask again. I had planned on my first match Sunday with the gun but probably will just go back to my M and P or Springfield.
Hopefully they will will uphold their lifetime warranty policy. Especially since it’s basically a new gun. Little frustrated spending near 3000.00 for a gun and it’s not right.
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Any ideas what would cause this and how to fix it?
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Here are pictures of the barrel and where it’s hitting the slide on both sides.
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Just got a new STI DVC shot about 300 rounds total and worried about the contact that is happening between the barrel and the slide. It looks as though the barrel it’s twisting a bit when it’s unlocked and contacting the slide on both sides of the hood extension of the barrel. I’ve included a picture of where it’s deforming the slide a bit. I contacted STI and they said don’t worry about it, and this is normal with the tight tolerances they have with their fitting. This just doesn’t seem right to me so thought I’d check here with many more guys who have a lot more experience than I do. The gun functions well, no misfeeds, failure to go into battery etc at all.
where to find core 9mm factory none ported barrel
in S&W (M&P, etc)
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By an APEX semi gunsmith fit barrel. They are easy to fit and amazing In accuracy.
Apex directly, Midway USA or Brownells will have them.