TobyJ

Angus posted on fb that they have sold 1400...shouldn't be long now!

Just posted my first thoughts in this thread...so far, the A01 is amazing!

I finally got my A01 on Thursday, and fired about 100 rounds on Friday. So far, I think it is superior to my shadow 2 in just about every way... My shadow 2 is a CZC custom, which means it has a trigger job w/ the short reset. I also have the heavy brass SSI scales grips, which makes this gun a closer comparison to the A01 than a stock S2, but the differences are still apparent. First, the grip...the A01 just fits me better. I can't say what aspects (width, shape, etc.) make it better, it just is. My S2 feels very natural in my hand, the A01 even more some. Kind of like my S2 vs. my SP01 shadow...just 'better'. While all three of my shadows have CZC triggers, the A01 feels the best, even though according to the test sheets, they are all basically the same (7 1/2 da, 3lb. SA with the short reset). It's something about the motion of the A01 that just feels more precise. A quick example is doing something like a dry fire wall drill...holding the front sight steady on the S2 takes quite a bit more effort than the A01. I suppose this could also be an artifact of the grip or the weight...it's just better Which brings us to the weight...it's heavy, and it feels even heavier than it is. My s2 with the brass grips feels very balanced, while the A01 carries it's weight in the nose. I thought this might be an issue when firing, as in the sights would dip excessively on recoil, but that isn't the case. The sights come right back on target, as they do with my S2...perhaps even a bit faster. With my 135gr 132ish PF reloads, recoil is basically not an issue with either gun, but it does seem to be less of an issue with the A01, which makes sense, given the weight and where it is. One of the next things I intend to do is back to back bill drills, to see if avg. time or group is better with either gun, over a number of runs. Accuracy at 12 and 25 yards is about the same, and is most likely limited by my abilities. 5 shots at 12 yards go less than 2 inches, and 5 shots stay in the USPSA headbox at 25 yards, fired free style (no rest), not rapid, but not slow either. The 5 shots from the A01 were slightly lower than the 5 from the S2 at 25, and were all charlies (3 from the S2 were alphas). One thing I think contributed to this is the fact that compared to the fiber in my S2 front sight, the fiber in the A01 is HUGE, and appeared to cover the majority of the head. It could also be luck, or any number of other variables. So to the OP's question...which would I buy... Well, I shoot USPSA production, and the A01 is not legal there yet, so I'd still choose the S2. If the A01 were production legal (which is will be, at some point) or if I didn't care about shooting production,,and I could only have one, I would pick the A01 without question. I bought my S2 from CZC, and in addition to the trigger work, it is coated in custom tungsten polycoat, which adds to the price but not the performance. Combining this increased cost with the good deal I got from my gun guy on the A01, makes the money gap not so big between the two. I've seen S2's sell in the 900's, and you could get the trigger stuff done for a couple hundred more, making the gap larger...but I'd still pick the A01. I've only shot about 100 rounds through it, vs. probably 10-12k from my S2, so there is still a lot to learn, and the S2 is still one heck of a gun...but at this point, I haven't found one thing that the S2 does 'better' than the A01. It's also sort of cool to have a gun that started out as big blocks of steel, just a few miles from where I live, by some really good folks. TobyJ

I ordered mine on Feb 3...I will finally have it on Thursday. So while I haven't shot one yet, I have handled one at czc...feels great in the hand. TobyJ

When I loaded 147 blue rn for my glock 34, I used 3.3g of tg at 1.13 to get 134ish of. My shadow 2 needed an oal of around 1.09 with the same bullet, and I was able to cut back to 3.0gr of tg to get similar pf. Toby J

I load a lot of 9mm, and I use range pickup brass exclusively, that likely includes a lot of glock brass and some 9mm major. I use regular lee dies in my 650 (no u die) and case gauge every round in a shock bottle hundo. I get the occasional round that wont plunk all the way into the gauge, but it's nowhere near 5%. The biggest factor I've found to affect rounds dropping in is the powder drop stage. Putting just a little to much flare on the brass drives the reject rate way up. As for the occasional 'reject' they go in a box marked 'practice' and I have yet to have one not run in the gun. Just not worth it to me to have questionable rounds in the main mix. Toby J

The target 2 is really just an sp01 shadow with adjustable sights and some cz customs bits and work. I see no reason it wouldnt be uspsa production legal, even though it is not spelled out by name. The shadow target is there, by name, but it had a non standard rear sightsight, which required slide milling. Really, I dont know how anyone would be able to tell a shadow target 2 from a cz customs worked shadow with an adjustable sight. I was at cz customs yesterday, and held both an sp01 shadow and a bull shadow...they feel almost exactly alike in the hand, as they should...both have the same grip configuration and roughly the same weight and weight distribution. While there, is also confirmed that all target 2's have the same trigger parts, including the short reset. I'm not familiar with the bull shadow optic, but I'd imagine it comes with the czc plate system. I dont see why it wouldn't. You could always call and ask...they are a great bunch of folks. TobyJ

Depends, but probably not... If you are looking to go SSP, you'll need to start hammer down, which I suppose is easier with a decocker...I have 2 CZ 75 variants, none with decockers, and I've started hammer down lots of times, without issue. If you are going ESP, you'll want to start 'cocked and locked' so you'll need a safety... And from what I've heard from those who would know, you can get a better trigger with the safety model...I'd vote no on the decocker... TobyJ

I'm pretty sure the Shadow orange is a Czub factory 'performance' pistol, vs. a CZC custom product https://www.czub.cz/en/produkty/pistole/competition/cz-75-sp-01-shadow-890.html So comparing that to a CZC custom pistol may or may not be apples to apples. You can have CZC build you an SP01, for a bit less money, but it will lack the 'special fitted barrel and slide', as it will be built on a 'regular' SP01, which would also be legal in SSP or ESP. It will still be an outstanding firearm...I have one of their custom Shadow 2's (short reset trigger, trigger job, ext. firing pin, etc.) and I absolutely love it. I was just in there today talking about just such a build...I want an IDPA gun, as close in weight and handling to my Shadow 2 that I shoot in USPSA. TobyJ

I'm borrowing a 9mm springfield RO for an upcoming match (considering buying it, or one like it). My other 9mm is a shadow 2, and my load for it is 147 rn blue bullet, loaded very short (1.09) due to short chamber. Anyway, I did a lot of reading, and found lots of posts about ftf's and fte's in 9mm 1911s, and the common solution seemed to be 'load longer'. So, I loaded up some 1.145s and hit the range with some new wilson etm 10rd mags. As expected, it ate the 1.145s up without issue. Just to check, I then loaded up some 1.09s, and it ate them as well. Went on to run 2 matches with the 1.09s, without a single hiccup. It would be nice to only have to load one 9mm round for both guns. I've also read that after oal, mags seem to be the next place folks go to fix issues. This gun / mag / ammo combo runs good...is it safe to think that there's a good chance another RO would run with this mag / ammo combo? How far would I be stretching this theory if I expanded to another ramped 9, like a Kimber khx? I realize there are a lot if variables, but I'd appreciate input from folks with more 9mm 1911 experience than me...which is pretty much anyone... Toby J

I do check the classifieds there and over here, and I was going to put up a WTB thread, when I came across the idea of building my own from a pre b. Hence the original purpose of this thread, to hear pros and cons of each plan. So far, I haven't heard any good reason to not go the build route...I found an importer who deals in transitionals, and adding in the cost of things like hammer, extended firing pin, sights and such, I believe I can build a very solid gun, which in some ways will be better than a stock shadow, for less than the cost of a new stock shadow., and probably on par with a used one...and, I like projects. Now if a used shadow pops up at a good price, I might rethink this, or I might do both Toby

Thanks, Bob, but the Shadow slide was never part of my plan...the thread got a bit sideways, and that was someone else's build. My plan is to just put some upgraded guts into a transitional, and I was asking about that plan as opposed to buying a used shadow, which I have not been able to find too many of around here. So my build should fit into SSP or ESP. Toby

This really will be my last post on this, and that's only because you asked here and via pm... I'm no expert on this...I am a USPSA RO, but I've never been an MD or a RM, so I've never had to decide something like this. And as you say, there is no way to easily tell, and I agree with that. But let's say it came up, like at chrono, and I asked you what gun you are shooting, so I can see if it makes weight... If you said 'shadow', that would probably be the end of it. But for the sake of this post, lets say that you volunteered the fact that it is an SP-01 with a shadow slide. Because I know a little about CZ's, I'd probably then ask about the firing pin block, at which point, if you were being honest, you'd tell me that the shadow slide doesn't have a provision for it, so you changed the sear to a shadow sear, getting rid of the lifter. At that point, I'd call the MD over for guidance, as I believe this is direct violation of the rule which says that you cannot disable a safety. This situation probably has an infinitesimally small chance of ever coming up, but I do believe you are in violation of the rules. You keep saying nothing is disabled, but when you bought the gun, it had a firing pin block, and now, because you changed parts around, it doesn't. Sounds like the textbook definition of 'disabled' to me. It had it, you took an action, now it doesn't. I'm not reading anything between the lines, and I'm not really concerned...actually, I don't care at all. This started as a simple 'hey watch out here' and then I did get sucked into the debate, but I still have no skin in it. I don't know that I'm right, nor do I need to be. In this case, I agree that you basically just built a shadow, and therefore have zero competitive advantage over any other shadow, nor is your gun any less safe, so it should not be an issue. But is that true for every possible combination of bits, for every manufacturer? Is there some other situation where I could swap bits around, disable a safety, and either get some competitive advantage or create an unsafe gun? I don't know, neither do you, and neither do the RO"s...the rules are there for a reason, and one of those is to set clear boundaries for both the competitors and the RO's. Personally, I think this is a good thing, as we don't want RO's making any more judgment calls than they already have to. TobyJ

Ok...last post from me...this has gotten way off the original topic, which was mine I don't think you can use one rule (the ability to use other OFM parts) to allow you to violate another (the clear prohibition on disabling a safety), but that's just me. Probably would never come up, but if I were shooting in a major match, it wouldn't be worth it to me to try. You also are not shooting a shadow...it may be splitting hairs, but your gun did not leave the factory that way. Could you say you are? Absolutely. Would it work? probably. Would I do it at a major match...nope. You've obviously got a gun you like, and that's cool. You also believe you are in compliance with the rules, also cool. The only way to really settle this would be to either have it come up at a match, or email Troy McManus (DNROI) and get a written opinion. The former is not likely to happen, and the latter is probably opening a can of worms. That's my 2 cents, and it's probably not worth that...I've got no skin in this, so let's agree to disagree. I really appreciate that you kept this civil, though Good shooting Toby

But in this case, a fully functional SP-01 was purchased, and then the lifter removed, the slide discarded, and a shadow slide added. I'd say that some stuff was disabled. The fact that a firearm with those same features disabled could be purchased, is irrelevant by the language of the rule. Now if a blank sp-01 frame were purchased, and then was built up to be a shadow, that is a different story...but then that would seem to go against the 'gun must be on the production list' portion of the rules, as blank frames are not on the list. I get the argument, I'd tend to agree with the logic, and it will likely never come up...but I don't see where it is supported in the rules. TobyJ

I think it's highly unlikely to ever come up in USPSA, but if some official (or another competitor) wanted to be a hard ass, the burden of proof would fall to the shooter. This is from the production appendix D4 section 21: Please note that, during a match, a competitor may be required to demonstrate that their gun complies with Division rules by identifying a specific rules clause or published interpretation authorizing any disputed modification. If the competitor cannot identify an authorizing rules clause or published interpretation, the Range Master shall rule that the modification is PROHIBITED for Production division use and shall move the competitor to Open Division. At which point, said shooter would have to defend how they did not break rule 21.1 in the same appendix: ALL Factory safety mechanisms, whether internal or external, must remain functional. And then it would come down to integrity...if said shooter really doesn't think they disabled a factory safety mechanism, which was on the gun as it was originally manufactured, they could argue such, but might lose. Again, probably would never come up, but I prefer to err on the side of caution TobyJ

Thanks IHAVEGAS This is exactly what I was thinking...buying used and then building up. The transitionals I have been looking at are the first real 'deals' I've seen on used CZ's in quite some time, and I figure even if the fbp isn't a deal breaker, why mess with one if you don't have to. I figure I'll be replacing just about everything inside, anyway, so what I'm really buying is a frame, slide, and barrel. I like to tinker, and have successfully cerakoted a few guns, so this should save a few bucks, and be a fun project. Toby J

Long story short-ish...I shoot a shadow 2 in uspsa, and I'm looking to put something together with similar size and feel, that could be a backup to my shadow 2, but also allow me to shoot idpa (shadow 2 is too heavy). The easy answer is probably a 75 shadow, but in researching those, I found several folks who had built up pre b 75's, and claimed 'shadow like' performance. I've also come across some so called transitional 75's...no fpb, but square trigger guard, pinned front sight, etc. With a few upgraded parts and some polishing, I could see this becoming a real competitor. I dont see a lot of shadows on the used market, and when I do, they are pretty pricey, so the transitional project seems like it would be a winner there. As well. And I enjoy projects... But I'm far from a cz expert, so I'm looking to you all for anything I might be overlooking, tips, thoughts, etc. Toby J

Description says this works with stock front... https://cajungunworks.com/product/1294/

I also shoot tns at rio, and just shot my first with my new shadow 2, but I shot in production, not limited. I had a similar thought to yours...throw the longer safety on and load the mags up, but decided against it. Like you, I plan to shoot uspsa production with the gun, and figured that doing all my shooting with 10 rounds and a dropped hammer start is a good thing. It was my first match coming off a glock, and my first iron sighted tns in a long time (have been shooting CO)...the gun is plenty fast enough to keep up. Toby J

yep...looks like my primary RMR is going back to Trijicon. About a month ago, I thankfully bought a spare. I mounted it, zeroed it, then took it off and put the primary back on. Hit the range today, and the primary group was nearly 4" low POI vs. POA. Put the backup on, and it was pretty much dead on. So confirmed the primary was off, and that the ZEV slide is keyed well enough to allow a sight to be removed and replaced without significant shift of zero. Also confirmed that while they are pretty tough, RMR"s are subject to failure. This one has been on the gun for close to 18 months, and well over 20k rounds, so I'd say that's pretty solid. TobyJ

I think lens shift is a possibility, although I haven't heard this much with RMR's. I had the glass completely fall out of a viper, and right before it did, my shots were all over the place. I ran a 13 lb for the last 18 months or so, but then switched to an 11 on advice from Zev, when I put the prizefighter slide on. Interestingly enough, the first shift down I saw was the day I put the 11 lb. in. That same 11 lb spring is still in there, and while I can't figure out exactly how a weaker spring (either from changing or from use) could drop POI, I am heading to the range this morning, and will test the gun as it sits (was 2 or so inches low last night) vs. new 11lb. spring, vs. new 13 lb. spring. I don't really expect to see a change, but I want to cover as many bases as I can. I suspect that this will be the outcome today. I already carry just about every spare part, and was planning on zeroing this backup on the original MOS slide, so that I could make a quick swap. Hadn't really thought about a 'match' gun vs. a 'practice gun', but it's an idea. For me, it would be more of a 'big match' vs. a 'small match / practice gun', as I shoot at least one match of some kind or another, each week. Thanks for all the input TobyJ

I'm running an RMR type one on my glock 34, mounted to a zev slide. A couple weeks ago, I started my drills with a few rounds to verify the zerio, and it was shooting about an inch low at 10 yards. I re-zeroed it, and ran about 300 rounds through it without issue. I shot three matches (about 400 rounds) the following week, and all ran well. Last Friday, I started my drills the same way, sight was still zeroed, and this time, put a dab of nail polish on the windage and elevation adjustment screws, as well as the two mounting screws. Shot 2 matches over the weekend, Mostly paper targets, and I hit about my normal A to C ratio, so nothing jumped out. Also went 1 for 1 on all steel, including a texas star. Tonight, I shot a local steel match, and had a lot of trouble with smaller targets, that normally don't give me trouble...plate racks at 10 yards, and hinged 6" circles from 10 to 25 yards. I seemed to be low on everything. Took the gun up to the main range, and sure enough, it was shooting about 2 inches low at 11 yards. Checked my witness marks, and all is lined up. Group was also very tight, not drifting...just 2 inches low. Windage is spot on. I'm thinking the RMR is going south, but I'm not sure exactly how. I did the google search thing, and I didn't find a lot of documented RMR failures. the majority of the failures I could find are blinking / flickering /electronics type stuff. I did find a couple posts about the adjustment screws wandering under recoil, but mine did not move. I also found one post where the adjuster broke, but it caused the shots to string as the dot 'fell'...not just shift poi vs. poa. I have another RMR that I can swap in, and probably will...Area 2 is coming up. My fear there is that other than this...whatever it is...this particular RMR has been rock solid for something north of 20k rounds. So, before I went that route, I figured I'd check here, to see if anyone had any other ideas. Thanks TobyJ

Ok, but I saw coating stripped from bullets shot through a stock glock barrel . And same barrel does not cut plated or blue bullets.

Interesting. I used to run sns over tg in 9mm and .40, but had issues with leading in 3 different guns (factory glock barrel, aftermarket glock conversion barrel and factory sti 1911 barrel). I recovered a couple of fired slugs, and could see bright shiny lead marking the rifling, so i switched to plated. Decided to give blue bullets a try through my factory glock barrel, still over tg, and so far, no leading, and a recovered bullet shows no exposed lead. Ymmv TobyJ