RickT
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Posts posted by RickT
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6 minutes ago, HoboGuapo said:
The matches in my area don't usually paint between shooters but we do when our squad changes stages. We also have a standing rule that if anyone feels like they want the targets painted before their turn, then they can request it. No sweat. That sounds like the best solution
That would be a fine solution if the MD permitted, but that's not the case. Paint on request would appear to address shred's concerns. I believe the rule without exception for Tier 1 requires painting between shooters; that might tend to stretch out matches a bit especially given the prevalence of 10 gun/5 shooter squads, but there should be a soft landing somewhere.
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Our local week day matches don't allow painting. It's not a cost issue since the 4 stage matches are only $5 for club members. There is absolutely nothing at stake other than a)bragging rights if applicable and b)classification, but when the 11th gun comes up in Five to Go one or more of the targets can be absolutely black and depending up sun angle and background said target(s) can be nearly invisible. I'd like to see a rule that requires,as a minimum, that targets be painted after every 4 shooters; wouldn't take much time and would provide every shooter in a squad a reasonably clean target. Clubs would be free to skip the painting, but then couldn't upload their scores to SCSA. Thoughts?
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So in Tier 2 and above offset of mag pouches are a thing?
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Prior to our move to Idaho 5 years ago my wife and I shot the SLOSA match every month with 80 guns at every match (single gun match). The SLOMO match was added to allow 2-guns. The most months the regular match didn't break 30 guns, the SLOMO match around 40. There are very few centerfire handguns in either of these matches. An Action Pistol/Rifle match has been added which appears to use USPSA-type scoring. In our current locale an Action Steel match is now being offered.
Given the discussions regarding the convergence of performance among CO, LO (if added), and OPN doesn't it make sense to a)combine CO/LO/OPN into Centerfire Open; b) combine Production and Limited into Centerfire Irons? Is the current trend likely to change?
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My wife's reclassification request (from M to A) was denied even though we pointed to an obvious score entry error. Not a big deal but very strange result.
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8 hours ago, zzt said:
I don't have a problem with selective preferential treatment. The second club I mentioned allows the setup crew and some ROs to register the Thursday before registration opens to the general public on Sunday. ....
Makes perfect sense. I was referring to preferential treatment of a more personal nature. RO duty is simply performed by those in the squad who feel comfortable doing so and setup is a large gang of anyone who shows up early.
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I don't manage any of the local matches. I'm personally fine with approaches 1 or 2, but have a real problem with preferential approaches.
I've often been the only 1-gun and centerfire handgun shooter in a squad and don't find that sort of squad composition particularly enjoyable, but that's life in today's Steel Challenge. I also prefer being able to select a squad at registration, but the whole 1-gun/2-gun thing makes this awkward for MDs unless the match is first come/first serve.
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What approaches seem to work best - Tier 1
1. Accept all first guns, lottery for second guns (registration cut-off for first gun)
2. First come, first serve
3. Second gun preference to frequent match supporters?
4. Other?
How does this interact with squadding? Squad during registration versus MD creates squads?
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All of the above makes sense. By inference the only place/condition in which you can leave your gun unattended is bagged and in either your range bag or gun cart. Rifles/PCC need not be bagged if they are properly mounted in a cart.
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52 minutes ago, shred said:
NROI recommended "minute of basketball" for pointing at the start flag/cone/mark.
That fits within my standard practice.
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Clubs use various items for marking the rimfire aim point. I've seen whiskers only, small cones, buckets, and more official looking items ranging from 0 to 24" high. Regardless of the height of the aim point I've had no problem with shooters at ready provided It appeared the point of aim to be no higher than approximately 24" above the marker provided the azimuth was reasonable accurate. I'm more concerned when the "direction" of aim wanders toward the draw plate. The rules don't provide guidance in this specific instance. How is this generally handled? (Edit: Tier 1 matches)
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Even after I clean my wife's Mamba-X mags and replace springs as necessary she is still experiencing slow feeding on occasion. I've seen threads on other forums discussing using light oil on these mags. Thoughts/experiences welcome. At this point I'll try everything. We use CCI mini-mags and try to keep this warmer during our matches in min-30's temps FWIW.
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I've identified two unrelated issues which are readily addressed
1. The rotary magazine springs do wear out and I'm fairly certain I under-tension magazines that have seen some rounds.
2. I do run bore patches through our 10/22 barrels, but we just discovered that mini-mags don't seat readily when I perform the equivalent of a centerfire drop test. I nylon brushed the chamber and the mini-mags now seat with ease (manually). This is a bit baffling given a)I do clean the barrel, b)We haven't seen this before, and c)why just mini-mags, our go-to SC round, when CCI AR, CCI Camo, ... all drop into the chamber.
From now on I'll repeat this drop test as part of my cleaning routine.
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I don't personally have much of an issue unless something is really out of wack and at my "used to be A class" speed in SS things have to be really out of wack to matter, but the rule book should address relaxed rules for Tier 1 matches to legitimize scores for these matches. +-2 inches for whisker location is a good goal using the standard 2-tape method. Better and just as fast would be adding a laser tape from the box/stage center for slant range, but that's just me. Why do all that without making some effort to roughly center the plates over the whisker; you can come darn close doing this.
Painting is a different story. Shooting a 10" plate at Pendulum distance with a bad background and bad lighting conditions is a big deal when the plate has been hit 45 times. I think this should be a hard requirement for SCSA accepting scores given the potential disparate effect across competitors.
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The MD generally does a good job and there are plenty of people there for setup, myself included, but he's a my way or the highway guy. I'd bring my own paint, but he would never allow that, etc., etc . Volunteering to square up the setup prior to start of match would put us further up his "black list". I made a reasonable, polite suggestion regarding one particular match where he limited the headcount without sending out a prior notification and all I got in return was a nasty response.
We don't have enough matches around here to bail out of this one so we're stuck.
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29 minutes ago, IHAVEGAS said:
The benefits of running outlaw steel challenge matches versus paying money to SCSA are debated at some clubs. Many see steel matches as the way to get the wife or child or non shooting friend interested in shooting in a low pressure environment, others see it as practice for IDPA/USPSA and socialization opportunity, and others take the sport seriously in itself.
You seem to be in the latter group, which is 100% fine. What I'm saying is that depending on the make up of your club a bit of grousing about the rules may not take things in the direction you desire.
It's not an outlaw match as such. Scores are reported. When I get to Pendulum, for example, and the r/h plate pair is way off, probably only 5' between the plates, I fix this by relocating the plates directly above the whiskers. In the MD eyes this should be a DQ with the scores for that stage thrown out notwithstanding the other rules violations in the match. IMO painting after each shooter can be done efficiently and doesn't use much more paint if the painters spot paint the shots. The MD could instruct the people doing setup to spot the plates over the whiskers at least on a best effort basis. I'll just note r.e. painting that the prevalence of 2-gun rimfire shooters would make for less efficient painting, but other than painting after each shooter there isn't much that can be done about that; everyone would just have to hustle.
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Can scores from Tier 1 matches not in compliance with the rules be reported to SCSA? Examples might be 1)Failure to paint after each competitor or 2)stages set up clearly in violation of the +-2" requirement. When a target has already been shot 40 times it can be extremely difficult at times to determine whether a competitor has hit a given target; combination of distant targets and sub-sonic ammo exacerbates this issue. If a stage is accurately marked a target can be positioned over the whisker pretty accurately even if the board has a pretty good lean; there doesn't seem to be much excuse for not doing so prior to the start of the match, but it happens.
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@HoopsComing up. Dog had some dental surgery and a 20 deg in the am cold snap has gotten in the way. Coming up on Saturday. Current TK double mags are still coming with the green rotors. I also have these mags that a gun store had populated with Ruger parts for comparison. I am near-convinced that I've been under torquing the springs to I'll bring a few single mags with 1-1/2 turns or so, less than my usual approach.
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Didn't mean to imply that we should switch to the subs, just use their different profile to evaluate feeding even if only with a manual bolt release. I do wonder if the bolt buffer doesn't harden a bit after time. Don't know if that would affect bolt speed in any event. I'm seeing others as mentioned above apply a good deal more tension to the mags than has been my practice.
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This thread is a treasure. The Mini-mags are popping up and jamming in the top of the chamber or at about 11 o'clock. I had never seen this before and have been wondering if the bullet hasn't been nose diving into the feed ramp, slowing down the bolt and allow the round to pop up. We may have some AR bullets around and sub-sonic CCI might be a good test although not the round I would run regularly.
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I'll definitely look at getting the chamber reamed. For a while both my wife's rifles used the Wiland barrel. While I recall come complaints herein regarding that barrel I don't recall having as many magazine issues with those barrels. We went back to the Kidd barrels because my wife prefers the slightly heavier weight.
We do use mini-mags exclusively in the rifle and the standard (white) spring. I've ordered some of the TK dual mags.
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I'm doing most everything mentioned above except the TK bodies. We use Mini-Mags, clear mags, and I've tried various combinations of the TK springs,feed lips, and springs. I'm suspicious of the springs on the receiver plunger that retains the mags so I've changed these springs. It's either the mag moving slightly out of alignment or something slowing the bolt down IMO.
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That's 3K/mag/year, but I get the message. My wife would like to continue shooting both pistol (Mamba-x) and the Kidd 10/22. I can't express my true feelings about 10/22 mags in public. If there were a lightweight, competition worthy 22lr rifle that used "good" mags I'd bite the bullet and steer things in that direction.
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My wife's practice magazines each see about 3000 rounds/year. I do clean these mags as necessary, but despite my several years of experience dealing with these things I find it very difficult to restore them to reliable operation. What have others seen for life expectancy and what parts have others replaced? I've tried the Tandemkross springs/rotors/feed lips but haven't necessarily seen improvement in reliability. Do the mag bodies degrade increasing friction, or simple spring wearout coupled with the challenge of getting the spring tension correct?
Require Painting in Tier 1 Matches?
in Steel Challenge
Posted
Painting between shooters (or guns) is obviously not a requirement since clubs are allowed to submit scores even if they don't follow this rule. I'd be OK with modifying the rule for local matches to leave following this rule at the the MD's discretion provided the rule was modified to give competitors the right to paint; the match could require shooters to provide their own paint in this case - no big deal. The rule change would have to make it clear that matches which don't allow this will be considered unsanctioned.