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SW39

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About SW39

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  1. Interesting Topic: sorry I am late to the game... If we are talking about what we don't like and do like about the rules, just open it up all around; and trying to compare decades old rule's against a newer organization's rule's will always be a debate, especially when one is aiming for a simpler set of rules and to avoid conflicts. For the last 4 years I ran 3GN rule set with (4) Divisions only, this season we moved over to UML because of the uncertainty with 3GN. I am only running 3 Divisions under UML. Divisions: 3GN, USPSA & UML all have the same basic 3 divisions Practical = Tactical Optics Factory = Limited Unlimited = Unlimited UML Unlimited 2x4 3GN UnlimitedX4 However, 3GN has Practical PCC, which is a good viable division for new shooters starting out in 3-Gun IMO. We had many a shooter start in that division before moving over to limited or practical or even unlimited. Also, IMO Unlimited should be a 4-Gun division with the shooter having the option to use a PCC. I disagree with Practical or Factory having the same option. Round Counts The last time I checked USPSA has multiple Divisions that require RO's to count shots between reloads all the time, thus being able to walk and chew gum seems common training for RO's IMO Limiting the rounds to 8 in a shotgun before the bell to me is simply forcing shooters to re-load during a match, re-loading in my opinion is a skill that separates shooters through skill levels, thus just another way to establish overall skill level. That's a good thing. As to the argument that an RO should not be wasting time counting rounds it's less safe, simply poppy cock; what is less safe is that people think that you should only have 1 RO running people in any match IMO. I stress very heavy at all my matches to have 2 people at all times running each shooter and what I will call the second, it's their duty to score, also watch the shooter and keep shot count if necessary and work as a team. Some Items I prefer heavily in the 3GN rule set over both USPSA & UML Shoot through s, talk about wasting time arguing with shooters if they hit a no-shoot directly or clipped one through another target at an angle on a shoot through. To me it's simple, bullets go through things, thus I use placement of no shoots behind targets in my 3-Gun stages to force people to move to different angles in a stage rather than aiming around the edge of a no-shoot to clip 2 in the corner. Not knowing exactly how much of an angle is there for the no-shoot once passing through the main target ensures shooters to move to a good clean shot, rather than a heavy lean. It also makes the penalty more forgiving when shooting through a no shoot placed over a target partially, because the shoot through can still count as a hit on the target behind possibly, and not a miss plus the hit on the no-shoot. Staying inside the free fire zone I truly believe the run anywhere you want, but pulling the trigger has to be done within the FFZ is nuts, IMO having the shooter stay within the FFZ at all times is much cleaner to where the shooter will be traveling for the RO. Being in an area were I have rain 40% of the time at matches during the season, having 1 paper target that I don't have to worry about the heads drooping down under the covers is a big help. I really like UML's use any paper target you want rule over 3GN or USPSA, why not, the stipulation should be scoring zones, not a specific target shape in my book anyway. Minimum area's within each zone to me is the true target. Shooter fee's USPSA requires payment for each shooter that participates in a level 1 match whether the shooter is a member of USPSA or not and classifiers 3GN only requires payment for 3GN members classifier scores submitted At the moment UML requires no match fees at all and does not have per-say classifiers UML made some rule changes this season to allow more flexibility for match directors and I am sure I will have more than a few comments, if we ever get to shoot a match this season... Enjoy your day...
  2. IMO 3-Gun is an acquired taste, to me it is more like being a long distance runner compared to a sprinter, hurdler or short distance runner. So if you are just coming out to the range to shoot quick and leave, most wont stick around, you need to make the matches a social event that once a month everyone enjoys spending a day out of the range, not staring at the clock... As to divisions, I personally tell new shooters to shoot unlimited and don't care where you land. Take the time to talk with people see what they are using and why they are shooting the division they are. In a good social environment people will lend you equipment to try during a match. As the MD at my club I purchased a VR-60 before the 80 came out have my M3K, both of which I let people try at matches. I also bring a large selection of different shell carriers for people to borrow to help with the shotgun. I pushed last year for 3GN to add the UnlimitedX4 Div to bring the PCC into Unlimited, with UML 2x4 Open you have the option to shoot your PCC with a red dot, rather than your pistol and you have the pistol as backup, again a 4 gun Div. The key is as a match director IMO to attract shooters is to give them healthy options, yes I am one of those people who's stage briefings all begin with start anywhere within the ffz with firearm of choice. If it is steel (under 100 yards), your good to use pistol, pcc or birdshot,; paper can be pistol, rifle, pcc or slug, steel over 100yards rifle and clays are birdshot only. But don't design a stage in my book that choreographs how everyone has to shoot the stages the exact same way. Part of the fun is seeing how different people with different talents shoot a stage, by making everyone shoot the stage the exact same way, everyone becomes a copycat. And promote open in my book as the entry division and enjoy and get a feel for what you like then branch out into another division. For 2 years I used my 16 ga Ithica model 37 pump and loaded 2.5" shells to be able to load 6, my STI-40 single stack with 8 round mags and iron-site AR and had loads of fun. When there is a will and options those interested will join in the fun. Those looking to be king of the mountain the first day in, will never last long doing anything, Just my 2 cents.
  3. Great topic and enjoying the posts, imo, 3-Gun is a personal taste, either you love it or not. Ive, been the 3G match director at my club since 2016 and we've grown from 25 shooters to over 100 at each match and still growing, and the one thing that we have seen help us grow the program each season is listening to the shooters that come to each match and what they want. We run a 7 stage match with 6 squads of 12, two days (72) shooters max each day, Saturday and Sunday. (2) stages back to back are short classifier size stages which takes a squad the same amount of time to get through 2 stages, as it does one of the other (5) stages. The model we have settled on is (4) monthly matches plus hosting the state championship match for a total of (5) matches each year. Being in the colder portion of the country, we found 5 matches is just about right, 1st weekend in May through 1st weekend in September. We have a good mix of shooters that travel between 2 - 5 hours one way to come shoot our matches, Where in North Eastern Pennsylvania and our bays were designed around USPSA, but we have use of (1) 15yard bay (6) 25yard bays, (2) 50yard bays, (1) 100yard bay and (1) 300 yard bay to work with. I have a small group of dedicated volunteers that help setup 90% on Friday and the balance is done Saturday morning. I used to start setup on Friday myself with one other and then finish up Saturday morning and shoot the match on Saturday afternoon with 6 others. Well our waiting list for the match grew to be over 50 and since I was able to get help on Fridays we Just opened up shooting 2 days to accommodate the requests. 70% of my attendees drive more than hour one way. I have to say I have a different situation at our club, as the club built 9 competition bays, specifically around USPSA, IDPA and ICORE that are for matches only, not for member open use. So we are able to not interfere with the members using the club, it's only the 300 yard range we grab for our matches. One of the things that increased new shooters at our matches last season was the introduction of our point series. Other clubs in the area had been doing them and still do, but we found we gained a bunch of new shooters when offered a chance to hone their skills and win prize money at the end of the season. Making the series your best 4 out of 5 matches allows shooters the ability to miss a match and not be penalized. Finding the sweet spot that people like and want is key, not matter what type of match you run, but those that say shotgun is not enjoyable, and loading is not part of the fun, have never truly embraced the art of challenging yourself to improve. You ask any shooter who attends our matches, you will use 3 guns on each stage and you will have to reload at least once with 2 of them. I work in 45 clay birds per shooter over 7 stages at each match, but it is no hose-fest. As to shotgun costs, the JM-Pro, M3K and the RI-VR80 get you up and running with shell carriers for under $750.00 if you shop around. So I don't buy the whole cost thousands of dollars to have fun, maybe to go pro, but not have fun. One of the biggest ways we got many new shooters to start 3-Gun was the Practical PCC Division in 3GN, this allowed shooters to use their pistol, PCC and lower cost shotgun and be in the game. Next is to promote a safe and fun match with a solid set of rules, I focused on the 3GN rule set and this year we are moving over to UML. Each season we hold a Range Officer workshop to go over the rules and put together teams of squad RO's for the season. Hence, building a solid good set of RO leaders for each squad provides the others with a strong base they know everyone is on the same rules and what they are, and your RO's know it. We even print up the rule book's, not laser printed, but professionally printed and bound books. The bottom line, it takes a good amount of volunteers and as a match director that has been close to burning out more than once in a season, the balance of the number of matches each season over the quality of the matches is a teetering point that needs to be well balanced. For me, 5 quality matches a year, for others it might be more monthly smaller matches. The reality is if you want a quick small match that is run in and out, then 3-Gun is probably not your first choice. As to how much time at a match, we aim to start by 9:00am and be done by 4:00PM, 6.5 to 7 hours is doable for new shooters 4 times a year, we are working to bring that down to 6 hours in 2020, I will let you know how it goes in 9 months once the 2020 season is over, but whether it's 1, 2 or 3 Guns, if your only enjoyment is getting in and out fast and not enjoying the time spent on the range with others, then any multi-gun match is not your cup of tea. More information about our matches can be found at https://ontelaunee.org/3-gun/ Happy New Year, Regards - Tom
  4. For detailed information on the match visit https://ontelaunee.org/3-gun/2020-pennsylvania-state-3-gun-championships/ 8 Stages of Pure Fun September 5th & 6th, 2020 - Location: Ontelaunee Rod & Gun Club, Inc. - New Tripoli Pennsylvania
  5. Match dates, information and past match videos can be viewed at https://ontelaunee.org/3-gun/ Happy New Year Everyone
  6. 2020 Pennsylvania State 3-Gun Championships - September 5th & 6th - New Tripoli, PA Location: Ontelaunee Rod & Gun Club (2020 UML Rule set) 8 Stages
  7. Registration for the 2019 Pennsylvania State 3-Gun Championships Open's December 29th, 2018 For additional details, information and the registration link visit the link below. Click here for Match Website
  8. Registration Opens November 25th for the 2019 Point Series for the 3-Gun Program at Ontelaunee Rod & Gun Club. Detailed Information about the series can be reviewed at the following link. CLICK HERE DETAILED INFORMATION ON THE SERIES
  9. Match information is on PRactiscore.com as noted above for registration and basic match information Once you are registered you should be getting the update e-mails through practiscore match notification e-mails, if not contact me through the practiscore.com website and I will get that corrected. Sunday times Sign-in from 7:45 am - 8:30 am Match Briefing to follow Close of Sign-in Hammer Down at 9:00 AM As noted on practiscore this match has been opened to Pistol shooters, besides Shotgun and PCC, and we are allowing discounted 2nd gun registrations (non-prize pool) where you can shoot both guns on the same squad, same day. (It's a 1 day match) The link to register is above and also here. Sorry for the delay. https://practiscore.com/3gn-shotgun-pcc-pistol-match-at-ontelaunee/register Additional and match information will be being posted on the Ontelaunee3gun facebook page
  10. 3-Gun Nation Announces Shotgun & PCC Challenge in Pennsylvania Online Registration is Now Open for the 3GN Shotgun & PCC Challenge, presented by Ontelaunee Rod & Gun Club, on Aug. 5 in New Tripoli, PA 3-Gun Nation and Ontelaunee Rod & Gun Club have partnered to bring an exciting one-day match format to the East Coast with the 3-Gun Nation Shotgun & PCC Challenge, Sunday, Aug. 5, in New Tripoli, PA. Ontelaunee is a 3GN Club Series partner, offering quality 3-Gun matches each month, with regular 3GN Classifier opportunities for 3GN Members. The match, a one-day format, will consist of nine stages of fire, two of which will be 3GN Classifiers. Stage designs are being planned to incorporate 90-percent steel, with only 10-percent of the targets featuring paper presentations. The staff, and potential overflow shooters, will compete on Friday, Aug. 3, while the main match will take place Sunday, Aug. 5. 3-Gun Nation single-gun rules, 14.0, are in effect. Both prize table and non-prize table fee options are available. More info regarding sponsors and event details will be released very soon! A New 3GN Membership or renewal is included with purchase of your major match fee. Registration Links Register for SHOTGUN Challenge; Register for PCC Challenge.
  11. Update on Range Officer Workshop: Registration for the March 18th 3-Gun Range Officer Workshop at Ontelaunee Rod & Gun Club, New Tripoli PA, opens this Sunday January 7th. More detailed information and the Registration link can be viewed at http://www.blindsquirrelsquad.com/index.php/ontelaunee-3gun/2018-ontelaunee-3-gun-range-officer-workshop/
  12. Ontelaunee 3-Gun Will be holding (5) 3-Gun matches in 2018. Matches are held at Ontelaunee Rod & Gun Club in New Tripoli, PA Ontelaunee 3-Gun is a 3-Gun Nation club, so if you are not a member yet of 3-GN here is your chance to join and get classified. Match Dates for 2018 are: 1.) Saturday May 5th – Season Opener (7) Stages Total ((1) Classifier) 2.) Saturday June 2nd & Sunday June 3rd (7) Stages Total ((2) Classifiers) 3.) Saturday July 7th & Sunday July 8th – (7) Stages Total ((2) Classifiers) 4.) Sunday August 5th – (7) Stages Total ((1) Classifier) 5.) Saturday September 1st & Sunday September 2nd – (7) Stages Total ((2) Classifiers) Note that the June, July and September matches , shooters will have the option when registering to select shooting either day. They are not (2) day matches, you just have the option to shoot either of the 2 days. Due to other events at the club the May 5th match is a One day only shoot date and the August 5th match is also a one day shoot date (We will not be shooting 2 days in May & August) Also, Ontelaunee 3-Gun will be holding a R/O Workshop on Sunday March 18th, we will post more information on this just before the end of December. For updated and additional information & to watch Youtube videos of our matches visit the website at http://www.blindsquirrelsquad.com/index.php/ontelaunee-3gun/
  13. Registration opens July 23rd on PRactiscore... for our August 6th match. This is a one day match Sunday August 6th with (6) squads of 10, Setup will be Saturday August 5th. The match will have 7 stages total, including 1 3 Gun Nation Classifier. For more information and the registration link go to http://www.blindsquirrelsquad.com/index.php/ontelaunee-3gun/ Regards - Tom
  14. Registration opens tonight on PRactiscore... for our July 1st & 2nd match. This is a one day match for July 2nd, with (6) squads of 10, we will also have (5) squads of 5 or 6 for Saturday afternoon July 1st, after setup is completed. The match registration will ask for your preferred day or if you don't care. As noted, registration opens tonight June 18th at 7:00 pm, which I know is Father's Day, so happy Fathers Day everyone. For the registration link and more information go to http://www.blindsquirrelsquad.com/index.php/ontelaunee-3gun/ Regards - Tom
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