MAC702
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Posts posted by MAC702
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Knowing you have a big comp does help put it in some perspective, thank you.
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Yes, we've determined it's hot. Does your Glock have a big compensator? We are working on 124 JHP loads.
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4 hours ago, zzt said:
... If you want to reduce pressure so your gun lives longer, try something like AA7.
Man, I have a lot of AA7, too, but I don't think I tried any of that when I was looking into getting this gun reliable last year. I know it would not cycle factory ammo of any bullet weight, including +P, nor anything I could make safely with typical 9mm powders.
I've no need to make Major for what I'm doing, so I will add that to the experiment list.
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The most recent thread that came up on my search parameters was from 2016. Instead of bumping that old thread with a "check me" post, I'll just drop the question as a new thread specific to these Rocky Mountain Reloading bullets.
I have a Springfield XD(m) 4.5 pistol with a Bar-Sto Match barrel. The barrel and Open compensator were fitted by Springer Precision. This compensator needs 9mm Major (or at least a WAC-type powder) to even function the pistol, as I've learned the slow way.
I'm not an Open class shooter yet, but I built this pistol anyway, and would like it function. If I only shoot steel with it, I don't need to make Major anyway.
In order to get the plunk-and-spin in my barrel, I needed to seat these to OAL 1.086". This was quite a bit less than the recommended OALs I was seeing in the 2016 thread that showed the typical WAC load for a 124 JHP to be 6.8-7.2 grains of powder.
So I loaded a test round with 6.7 grains of WAC and it fired at 1474 FPS with a slide that locked back on the empty magazine and had no obvious recoil, breech blast, or fired case issues. That's a PF of 183.
Because of my OAL, should I just load a few more, maybe with even a bit less powder, for more testing, or are there any concerns I should pay greater attention to?
Thanks.
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I agree. I'm actually hoping I get full reliability and be no where near Major. I will have the opportunity to test the other loads by Sunday. I've been working on my precision rifle stuff for the past two weeks
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1 hour ago, AHI said:
good just making sure you understand.
now you know that 6.5 is your max charge with your current components.
Thanks. Yeah, and I had no intention of starting there. Should have looked at all the baggies after a week...
Am using Winchester Small Pistol primers as that is what I have a lot of. I have a couple different brands to try. I need to unbox everything after moving all my components to another room.
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Yes, I thought I made it clear I understood that. I was surprised I hit it so quickly based on data I was reading. I even said I wouldn't use 6.5 because I don't even want to be that close.
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11 hours ago, AHI said:
So why did you start at 6.5 and not 5.8?
What did the 6.7 chrono at?...
Well, that was my fault. It was at least a week since I loaded the rounds and put them in a box before actually going to the range to test them.
I pulled out the baggie labeled 6.5, and for some reason thought that was my starting load. It wasn't until I sat down to write the after-action report to you guys that I saw the baggies labeled 5.8 and 6.2. I felt like an idiot.
They all worked, and gave me the avg 172 PF. I did have a few that were close to 165 PF, and didn't think that I was pushing it yet, so thought I'll try the next load up, especially since I was reading of a lot of data with guys using 7.0 - 7.1 grains, just to see if that would give me a consistent Major load if I ever needed one.
When that first one felt bad, I decided to quit for the day and think about it later. I wouldn't want a 6.5 load anyway if 6.7 is that much too much. I've no need to push the envelope that badly.
1. I should have started at 5.8.
2. Now that I see I started in the middle, and didn't like going up at all, I'm feeling better about starting over at the lower ones and checking for reliability and comp effectiveness again.
FWIW, the round that slapped me in the hands had a lower velocity, at about 1260, perhaps indicative of not all of the pressure going through the barrel.
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14 minutes ago, MAC702 said:
accidental double post, can't figure out how to delete it.
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So I made a dozen-ish each of some loads with 5.8, 6.2, 6.5, 6.7, and 7.0 grains of WAC pushing the 124-gr FMJ (JHP is on backorder).
I still have the 14# recoil spring in the gun.
I started with the 6.5-gr loads and tested them through the chronograph. The gun cycled fine, but was snappier than I expected a comp'd gun to be. With velocity avg at 1390, the avg power factor was 172.
I then tried the 6.7-gr load. The first shot (so I know the gun was in battery) had the sharp, painful slap in my hands as if something had gone wrong. I can see no damage to the pistol, though. I put everything away and decided to ask for ideas on how to proceed. There was already a lot of brass on the ground; I've not seen one that looked damaged yet, but I still have a bucket from that day, most not from my gun, and no guarantee that I even recovered that one.
Powder is charged via the Dillon measure in my XL650. When I do stop and weigh a test round, charges are perfect.
I made each lot and promptly loaded a magazine with that load and put it in a labeled baggie, so I didn't accidentally jump to a 7.0 load, which I'm hearing should be fine anyway?
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13 hours ago, pbcaster45 said:
My gun above was built by Springer Precision and has a Bar-Sto Barrel and Springer 3-port compensator.
I've got the next shorter barrel, but otherwise that set-up.
I've got so many components already, I'm hoping to use them, but if nothing works, I'll try one of your recipes.
I do have 1000 plated 100-gr that I bought for making 380, but could be a possibility, even though I prefer jacketed. At least they have no exposed lead.
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On 1/7/2020 at 9:29 AM, GMP said:
Been messing with this lately as well. I built a P09 with a Primary Machine comp. Two vertical and two small horizontal ports. ... I get the impression these small comps top out quick as far as effectiveness(gas flow), and powder makes less of a difference than in an open gun with a big comp. ...
Is this your comp? http://primarymachine.com/cz-p-07-09-stealth-comp/
This is mine. I didn't think it was considered a small one.
https://shop.springerprecision.com/Springer-Precision-XD-XDm-9mm-Open-Compensator-SP0152.htm
And, duh, it says right in the description that it was designed for 9mm Major. I honestly don't know if I remember reading that when I bought it and then just forget when my plans changed. I will load accordingly and go from there. It will still be fun to play with even though I'm not in that game anymore.
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Wow, lots of good info here. Thanks, guys, I'm soaking it in and will try several of these ideas, and keep you posted.
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I do have a box of 147-gr Berry's plated, but would need reliable data, which is something I've not trusted for plated bullets. Plain lead or real jacketed bullets have always been much more consistent.
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4 hours ago, AHI said:
OK ill take a stab at this first you should be looking at 10# ish recoil springs.
second the fast powders you have been using make more gas than most thanck.
Have loaded auto comp with 5gr behind a 124 jhp to make a similar set up run.
Auto comp needs psi to burn clean would suggest a magnum primer.
Lowest Wolf makes is the 14# and that's also what Springer sells. I will look around for less.
If I get this to work and I like it, I will definitely invest in JHP for regular shooting with it.
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I bought this pistol more than a couple years ago, right before Springer came out with the 2-port comp that was designed to function with factory ammo. It was back when I was still doing major matches, and thought I'd see what Open was like as I got around to it.
This is how long it's taken me to "get around" to trying to make this pistol work.
The powders I'm used to using for 9mm are what I thought were "fast." Bullseye, Titegroup, 231, Accurate #2. Then I tried some HS6 hoping that might be slow enough, once I started doing some research and thought I needed slower powders for more gas for compensators to use. That's when I first started reading about Autocomp. Now I finally have some, and made a thousand 9mm today to empty out the last of my HS6 and 231 (there's a machine gun match this weekend anyway.) So now's the time to pour the Autocomp into the Dillon XL650, and see what can happen.
I just took out the bag of recoil springs I tried. Looks like I have a 14# currently in the pistol, as that's the empty bag. I also have the 16#, and 18# (marked as factory standard) back in their bags.
It's okay if it has to make Major to work, as long as that's safe. I just meant to specify that I don't need to make Major for any PF requirements.
Thanks for the discussion , guys.
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I carry a 5" 1911 in .45 ACP.
In all the matches I do that have it as a division, I use the same pistol, or very similar (steel v aluminum frame), and sometimes I'll shoot one of the abominable 9mm versions I also have.
I do plenty of other matches, though, where all the other guns get to come out and play, too.
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I've been reloading for 40 years, and if I have to start from scratch from Winchester's published data, I can. But I have to believe there are better starting points out there already, but everything I find is about making Major.
I don't want to make Major PF or anything crazy. I just want the gun to cycle reliably, and it will be used occasionally for local steel matches.
I have a Springfield Armory XD(m) with fitted 4.5" Bar-Sto threaded match barrel with Springer Precision 3-port compensator. Springer Precision did the barrel fitting and compensator installation.
I learned the hard way that it won't cycle reliably with any combination of factory ammo (incl +P) and any recoil spring (I bought them all!). I finally got me a pound of Autocomp powder, though. I load 124-gr FMJ (not plated) bullets.
Any known good starting points with powder charges and recoil springs? And then we'll see where the conversation goes from there.
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I think we are agreed on that...
2 minutes ago, michael1one said:...none of the 400 members in our gun club are putting ammo in their guns.
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I'm probably 50/50 for first shot at an 8" plate at 100 yards when I try it with my 1911 .45
My 7.5" Ruger Vaquero .45 Colt took a mule deer with one shot to the boiler room at 105 yards using 225-gr Winchester SilverTip.
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6 hours ago, pjb45 said:
... DNF is not a mathematical concept.
Good point, but mathematics allows for certain definitions, as in "just because." For example, 0! = 1 for no mathematical reason except we need it to be so.
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43 minutes ago, michael1one said:
...here is the argument
- It is unlawful to carry a loaded firearm on one’s person or in a vehicle while in any public place, on any public street, or in any place where it is unlawful to discharge a firearm.(Penal Code § 12031(a)(1).)
- A firearm is deemed loaded when there is a live cartridge or shell in, or attached in any manner to, the firearm, including, but not limited to, the firing chamber, magazine, or clip thereof attached to the firearm. (Penal Code § 12031(g).)
- For the purposes of Penal Code section 12023 (commission or attempted commission of a felony while armed with a loaded firearm), a firearm is deemed loaded when both the firearm and the unexpended ammunition capable of being discharged from the firearm are in the immediate possession of the same person. (Penal Code § 12034.)
So the argument goes that the ammo does not have to actually be in the gun for it to be considered loaded. Note that the comma after the word "magazine" which imples that a loaded magazine is a loaded gun. While this may be an argument in semantics, some of the officers of the great nation of California have arrested people using similar logic. One example is Clark in which he arrested and charged with having a loaded firearm because he had shells in a case attached to the butt of the shotgun. Arrest first and ask questions later. http://www.hoffmang.com/firearms/People-v-Clark-(1996).pdf
I'm pretty good with commas, but where are you making that argument? From what you cited, the only time the ammo in the same case as the firearm counts as "loaded" is if you are in the commission of a felony. From what I've heard all my life, it is quite common for a handgun to be stored in a locked case in a car, and a loaded magazine in the same locked case, but not in the firearm, and that is perfectly legal for normal transportation.
The magazine is not attached to the firearm, even if in the same case. I have heard of someone making that argument that a having shells in the sidesaddle attached to a shotgun might meet some lawyer's definition, though. Are you saying having a loaded magazine at all, anywhere, counts as a loaded firearm? I think that's only in Washington, DC.
I will admit that I am a state-certified firearms lawyer, but only in two easy states: Nevada and Utah. I don't think it's possible to be an expert in California.
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1 hour ago, dswingle said:
Allegheny Gun Works machines the fixed Beretta sight to accept a fiber optic rod ... I have the same question with this modification, is it still uspsa production legal?...
Appendix D4 21.2b
Milling of slide - only as required to insert sights.
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1 hour ago, pjb45 said:
Does major 9 violate SAAMI guidelines for pressure?
If so, the risk management folks should pitch a fit. That is a lawsuit waiting to happen re: federal primer packaging.
No more "liable" than any other non-SAAMI loads on the niche market, like .45 Colt +P, and .38/9 +P+, etc.
9mm WAC load with 124-gr RMR JHP
in Open Pistols
Posted
Nice to see some numbers on that PF for OAL change. I guess these RMR (or maybe any JHP) isn't well-suited to this Bar-Sto match barrel, based on the OAL I need for them. But maybe I can find a mild load that is safe and effective still. I've been working on other projects at the moment, but one of the 650s is still set up for this one.