[What laser for your PCC]

Just as a FYI i found this test on what higher levels of Green laser outputs are capable of:

 

[MPX Ammunition OAL Feedback]

Everglades 115gr JHP 1.117" 6.6 gr 3N37 

[45 degree offset optic]

I have used my lasers about 15 times in the last year:

• several times on hard left leans
• once on a 4 target laydown array ( sucked the stock up over the top of my shoulder) a traditional sight picture would have been problematic with the bore offset and hardcover + No- Shoot placement with this array)
• several times on tight to the wall through a window targets
• I had one where I was able to stay back out of a window and shoot the first target from the stock on belt start with the laser and eliminate a position entry and exit 
• several times on 3 yard or closer tight head shots ( only upper A and above exposed) as a secondary POI reference through my primary sight
• a window driveby, never stopped for a sight picture just picked up the green on target and let 2 go

[45 degree offset optic]

I have had better luck with using the ecotec or UH-1 holographic  sights I can slide the retical off in to the edge or corner of the window  easier than using a 45 deg offset.. but I do have a CMR206 @12 O'clock  also 

K

 

 

[Long range pcc]

17 minutes ago, sbo76 said:

I would assume the 124’s have a touch more drop but probably within an inch right?  Did you test the loads

before hand at distance?  (I don’t practice much and surely won’t sight my dot in at this range prior to the match so this post will be used as my testing!!)

Yea you can get 124's to be close to the same drop with the correct velocity... I needed the 124's to be 1290fps to match up with the 5.56mm BDC in my optic.. end of the day the 115gr load is flatter in my MPX's with the MBX comp's so t use the 115's only now.

 

You need to shoot @ distance you  can't trust a BZO @ 17-25 YD to be close to hitting where it is supposed to @ 100 +... lots of windage adjustment to bring the BZO in @ 100YD in my experience with no noticeable change on the 17-25 YD targets afterwords.

 

 

 

[Long range pcc]

My 115gr JHP @ 1405fps load is -28.4 inch drop @ 200YD... Farthest target last year at this match was 185-187 YD full size silhouette for a -19.6 inch drop that coincided with my 5.56 BDC reticle 600YD aiming point.. 

[MPX Gen 2 Load Data]

115gr Everglades JHP 6.5gr 3N37 = 1405 FPS / 161PF .. works my MBX comps better than the factory Speer & Federal  115gr loads that hit the same velocity...

[STI Trubor or CK Arms]

Being in NZ the FIRST THING you need is a a gunsmith/ armorer  in NZ that can keep an open gun running..I have fixed issues in 2011/1911 built by just about every one( CK, STI, SVI,LIMCAT, ATLAS,  Gans, Cammerans,  FGW, Dawson,  Brazos, ect..) just to save friends matches or loung spells without their guns .. I only do full builds for myself and the ocasional vary good friend that is local to me.. bottom line 2011's are like race cars stuff wears out and brakes or goes out of tune.. sending things back to the US from NZ is crazy loung and probably  mega $$$

 

[6/28/18 New high hit factors and retired classifiers]

Did some #'s crunching and found close to the same percentage swing the other way in other classifiers:

 

Classifer	Old pcc	New PCC	% Change
03-07	68.8272	83.2414	14.142
13-07	71.8827	90.2945	18.4118
99-61	68.7017	79.0678	10.3661
13-05	76.8464	87.1282	10.28

 

I didn't go all the way back but looked at a few, so at the end of it I don't see that the new HHF's would have any change on my current classification.  I think I would have made Master sooner than I did with the open based HHF's.  

[6/28/18 New high hit factors and retired classifiers]

18 minutes ago, Racinready300ex said:

 

Like I said, no reason to reset someone score in limited when they are 2% short of GM in another division. Makes you sound like a sandbagger.

The reality is I was at 93.1275% on 6/27/18 post HHF adjustment 6/28/18 it is 78.8763%  so from top of M to bottom of A but we wont run a recalculation ???.... shooting the exact same Hit factors on the 6 classifiers post 6/28/18 will result in all of them being automatically code D.. How am I sandbagging when it is USPSA that has changed the # 's but want the old #' s and the new #'s to both count as good? 

 

At the end of the day we as members pay USPSA for the classification system via dues and mission fees, as a member and participant  I expect it to be a valid usable tool for me.  As of 6/28/18 it is not vary usable . I have said my position , stated my case and been denied I hope everyone enjoys the period of stagnation in the  classification system that is comming.

[6/28/18 New high hit factors and retired classifiers]

This is pointless I never said I  wanted everyone to reset to zero just myself. It is a tool I have used since 1993 when I joined USPSA.  With a drastic adjustment in HHF's and the rules of the program counting pre and post adjustment %'s as valid the system is basically frozen for members with old HHF % remaining valid.  Request for Limited denied 2014 and M Limited scores from 2006 used in BOD decision IRT PCC today.

 I am out of this discussion 

[6/28/18 New high hit factors and retired classifiers]

4 minutes ago, MikeBurgess said:

Have you shown you are not capable of performing at your current classification and petitioned for a lower one?

T


Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk
 

yes with Limited the last M score I posted was 2/4/2006 and I medically retired from the military in 2009 with a 70% disability rating. I finally got it through my thick head that I couldn’t compete in limited any lounger and gave it up 2014 I have abysmal limited scores from 2006-2014 tons of 20  and 30%ers. BOD's position is that M Limited is still justified... that is why I sold off all my limited gear  in 2014 .. so no M level classifier or match performance  from 2006-2014 + the 70 % disability is not justification to move down in Limited. 

[6/28/18 New high hit factors and retired classifiers]

2 minutes ago, MikeBurgess said:

You're new super low scores remain on your record, they are just not used in the calculation of your current classification. If none of your scores for a period of time are at your current classification you would have plenty of evidence to support your petition

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk
 

Ben their done that with Limited the last M score I posted was 2/4/2006 and I medically retired from the military in 2009 with a 70% disability rating. I finally got it through my thick head that I couldn’t compete in limited any lounger and gave it up 2014 I have abysmal limited scores from 2006-2014 tons of 20  and 30%ers. BOD's position is that M Limited is still justified... that is why I sold off all my limited gear  in 2014.

[6/28/18 New high hit factors and retired classifiers]

No you don't the BOD's position is the pre 6/28/18 % is valid to keep you where you are irregardless of their 25% adjustment on 6/28/18. higher scores calculated under the old HHF's prior to 6/28/18 will never drop off of your %  as any re-shoots under the New HHF will receive a D by the system. Any new classifiers not already in your pool calculated under the new HHF's will get a B or C code and wont be used.  

[6/28/18 New high hit factors and retired classifiers]

18 minutes ago, HoMiE said:

 

Looking at your 100%...

09-14 no uprange start for PCC

09-02 stronghand same for PCC

08-03 no uprange start for PCC

 

did PCC get harder or did you just shoot at your level?

 

 

 

neither.. Initial PCC HHF's were pulled out of thin air, based on no data and with no understanding of how a PCC has  different strengths and weakness than than a pistol...  

[6/28/18 New high hit factors and retired classifiers]

23 minutes ago, MikeBurgess said:

3) have no current scores on record that indicate you should remain in your assigned class.

 

higher scores calculated under the old HHF's prior to 6/28/18 will never drop off of your %  as any re-shoots under the New HHF will receive a D by the system. Any new classifiers not already in your pool calculated under the new HHF's will get a B or C code and wont be used. 

They raised the bar by 25% to me that makes any score prior to 6/28/18 invalid.. I understand it needed to be done however why should I as a member who pays USPSA to maintain the classification system suffer with being over classed based on invalid data due to their mismanagement of the system we pay them for?

I want a total classification wipe to zero ( Unclassifed).  I will re-class under the post 6/28/18 HHF's without that the classification system is a totally useless tool for me that I continue to pay for. I see you joined hear in 2016 have no idea how long you have been shooting USPSA,   I have been an active USPSA shooter since 1993 the classification system is a tool I have used since day 1 but without a reset to zero it is useless to me based on the rules governing the data currently in the system ( that is now wrong) and new data coming in.

[6/28/18 New high hit factors and retired classifiers]

3 minutes ago, MikeBurgess said:

How has the classification system been invalidated?
Seems to me the use of actual data in adjusting the HHF validates it

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk
 

I agree on that,  so that makes the old scores and classifications Invalid. Old scores are not the same value post 6/28/18 as they were on 6/27/18.  look at the data posted in this thread and you can see a 25% swing both up and down ( 50% total ). 

[6/28/18 New high hit factors and retired classifiers]

IMO the petition process doesn't apply .. I see nothing in the bylaws that cover the invaladation of the clasifacation system .. the actions taken are outside of  the bylaws.. I welcome a zero reset in all divisions 

[6/28/18 New high hit factors and retired classifiers]

If this was a 1-5% adjustment it would be one thing... but I have seen up to 25% in some of the data from this thread.. to me that is a total invaladation of the system and I want yo have all of my old data dumped and be reset to zero unclassified  in all divisions... I will reclas under the new system in the divisions I will shoot now.. shut it is only 28 years of shooting  with USPSA so far  should only be 4 months to reclass in the 2 divisions I will still shoot in as an old guy 

[6/28/18 New high hit factors and retired classifiers]

58 minutes ago, Flatland Shooter said:

 

What these classifiers show is that the HHF that jumped a bunch are those that the pistol shooters had to turn and draw.  We PCC shooters could pick up a 1/2 second on them right there so the change is no surprise.

 

The one that the HHF went down included a mandatory reload.  Again, no surprise. 

 

I reviewed my classifier scores back through last Summer.  In late Summer and early Fall I shot a few classifiers that included reloads.  If we were using the new HHF back then, I would have had my last bump in class a few months earlier than I did.

No I disagree on each one of the listed 100% their were an open, a limited  and a production GM, M and A shooters that also did the same or better time on the stages including the turn and draw.. they we well above the old 100% in the respective division..the stock in belt start position is equal to a turn and draw in what I saw in the classifiers

[6/28/18 New high hit factors and retired classifiers]

On 6/28/2018 at 3:19 PM, MemphisMechanic said:

 

 

A lot of Production shooters are going to begin putting together PCCs this week...  

 

Not a good idea PCC got a lot harder, I was at 93.1275% my six redon on the new HHF puts me down to 78.8763%

09-14 100% is now 70.1513%

09-02 100% is now 80.6327%

09-09 86.6667% is now 87.6404% ( only one that went up)

08-03 100% is now 84.4231%

99-62 86.5676 is now 83.3303%

06-05 85.5306% is now 67.0800%

[Favorite optic for PCC]

Update have been using Vortex UH-1's on my 2 MPX's since Aug 2017 for USPSA... after trying all of the following optics from my stash:

Sig Romeo 4B ( sent back under warranty mount is absolute garbage)

Trijicon MRO 

Trijicon TR21 1.25-4X  Green triangle retical 

 Burris MTAC 1-4X Balistic CQ retical 

S&B Short  Dot 1-4X CQB

EoTech EXPS 2 T Dot

Leupold LCO

 

UH-1 and a CMR-206 green laser is my go 2 setup for USPSA, I  still use the EXPS 2 T Dot with a 3X magnifier in PCC only matches that add 50-200Yrd targets.

 

I still have all of the optics (except the Romeo 4B & MTAC) on other 5.56mm, 7.62mm and 6.8mm carbines it was nice to be able to swap things around to experiment in the 1st year of PCC.

[Vortex Uh-1 ??? The new unicorn optic?]

Been using them on my 2 MPX's since Aug 2017 for USPSA... after trying all of the following:

Sig Romeo 4B ( sent back under warranty)

Trijicon MRO 

Trijicon TR21 1.25-4X  Green triangle retical 

 Burris MTAC 1-4X Balistic CQ retical 

S&B Short  Dot 1-4X CQB

EoTech EXPS 2 T Dot

Leupold LCO

 

I  still use the EXPS 2 T Dot with a 3X magnifier in PCC only matches that add 50-200Yrd targets.

[Trigger that will survive in an MPX?]

I have 13,000 on the Geiselle SD3G in my primary MPX and 3,000 on my backup zero issues and no abnormal wear yet... I had a Geiselle BGRF  that started showing abnormal wear at 12.000 rounds and i sent it back and replaced it with the SD3G.. I just consider a trigger in aMPX as a consumable and if I get 2 years ( 28,000) out of one I am happy. 

[Sig MPX gas port & tapit]

In led we trust = Google it..manufactures lots of after market MPX parts that can be difficult to source from SIG