dossauce

Welcome, what part of VA are you in?

Agree with alot of points. I see no reason to try carbine buffers/ quarters. I'll build it right the first time.

Yeah i've noticed mag changes are rough. I wonder why pistols dont have that same issue with last round. in theory it should be the same amount of energy to cycle. Slide weight vs bolt weight. I wonder what the differences are.

Nice! and that shows the extractor. Thanks!. How has it been running for you? What trigger are you using?

Huh, interesting. Thanks Bwikel, i just assumed there would have to be a bolt. Stealth, yeah I'm really leaning towards a New frontier side charging upper. Just trying to figure out what lower. I have glock mags but only 17rnd + TTI extensions so I'd be buying mags either way. Figured why not build an sbr lower and have at it. Whats the deal with the trigger/ hammer combo? Do you need to use the GI hammer? Does the JP trigger reduce the pull if youre using GI hammer and spring?

I know the Bolt Carrier is different but what about the actual bolt. Most that I see do not come with the bolt but I'm not sure if its because of how complicated the bolts are to make compared to everything else or what. I know even major AR manufactures rarely make their own bolts because of how complicated/ many cuts are required. I have an idea, build it with a dedicated lower. When I build an sbr later on I can pick up a mag block and just move the upper over and see how it works. If it does then just shorten the barrel and I'm good to go on an SBR while using a carbine dedicated lower till I make that change.

Hey enosers, Apologies if it's been asked, I searched but couldn't find what I was looking for. A lot of parts threads but no detail into the why's. Like many of us I want to get into PCC but I would rather build one then buy and replace a bunch of parts. If I build one I would like to build it as an SBR but would like to use a standard ar lower so I can use it for a 5.56 sbr later on. Can you attach a dedicated 9mm upper to a standard lower? I assume you will need a magwell insert which is fine. I also see some 9mm uppers that look like they have universal ejection ports for 5.56 size cases, is there an advantage to this over 9mm uppers (besides changing the barrel, I mean performance wise, would one run better then the other)? What's the deal with triggers for 9mm bolts? does it have to be mil-spec? Do 9mm ar's use the regular 5.56 bolt? I see a lot of BCG's that don't come with bolts so my assumption is yes. I won't even ask a question about buffers because it's been beat to death. I'll search once I get a better understanding of how its all working. I assume PCC don't have gas tubes because of the fast burn rate of pistol powders? Ie not enough gas to push bolt back, therefore it uses the back pressure of the bullet to cycle bolt (meaning you need a heavier buffer/spring similar to slide of a pistol)? I would love to see a sticky PCC thread that explains the difference between a standard AR in 223/5.56 and 9mm(PCC). It's a whole new world with alot of people making difference parts that don't play well with others, the opposite of what we're used to with AR's. Thanks in advance guys and gals!

If there's a shop I always leave gear inside, the people are always nice enough to put it with their stuff out of the way

I checked the fit of the extractor, it seems good. I went ahead and moved the rear spring to the front of the Aftec to see if I can get better tension that way. It seems about the same but sliding a round under it hold it in well both ways. I have to shake it to get it to come out.

Found my email! Thanks!

10# Edit: 12.5#

Thanks everyone. I was wondering about extractor tension. How much should there be? I will check the fp block and see if the extractor slides/ rotates. I need to order some springs for the extractor I guess!

Is there any way for us to see the squads? Clicking on the link here it just says registration is closed. I may have to dig up an email but I can't seem to find it right now. Figured I'd ask ya'll first. Thanks!

Hey Revo, glad to see you can learn from this. That would be quite terrifying to see people over a berm! Good luck at your matches and I'm glad to see a MD who is being proactive rather then retroactive all of the time.

I'll start off with this: 1. Yes I did alot of searching, I can't find anyone else that has the same problem. 2. I am still fairly new to 2011's (2 mo) so I have alot to learn, but excited to do so. its is a STI Edge in .40 It has an aftec extractor with 1 spring in it (front spring removed) This has happened twice now, both at major matches (go figure). What happens is the fired case is extracted from the chamber, rather then it kicking out from the ejector it rides upwards in the breech face, the next round in the magazine pushes on the brass casing that failed to eject, gun tries to feed next round into chamber, slide tries to close but spent case prevents slide from chambering next round. Here are my thoughts: Next round in magazine is pushing the spent case upwards in the breech face before it reaches the ejector, therefore the ejector doesn't hit the case. Could be extractor is too loose? Or, ejector isn't making good contact with case resulting in case being pushed upwards rather then out (doubtful) The first time it happened I had no clue what to do, the RO was nice enough to suggest hitting the case with the bottom of a magazine. This was after I tried to push, pull, and karate chop with my hand to no avail for 30 sec. The spent case gets locked up pretty good in the breech face above the height of the ejector. This is all with the magazine removed from the gun. I can provide pictures to simulate if this isn't clear. Thank you all in advance, I'm still learning. I hope someone can help me understand why this is happening so I can fix it. I hate it when I gun doesn't run! It's only happened twice out of probably 700 rnds through the gun.

Hodgdon and Hornady both list the Zero 124g FMJ specifically? I doubt it. And one 124g FMJ does not necessarily have the same profile as another 124g FMJ. Furthermore, your VP9 chamber isn't the same as all other 9mm chambers. As you have found, you have to load them shorter than the "standard" that Hodgdon and Hornady determined using whatever 124g FMJ in whatever chamber. Good Info here.You'll find reloading is a whole hobby all by itself, especially rifle if you get to that. For specific bullets the best thing to do is go to the manufacturers website and find their oal data. Like the guys have said above, it may not work for your specific pistols' chamber but it may give you a better idea if zero says their oal should be 1.140. I'm not stating this as a fact, just that you should check it out

I appreciate the feedback. Honestly I'm fairly new but I'm wouldn't say I'm lacking experience at matches. I've only been at it for 2 years but during those years I've shot almost 2 matches a week. I started USPSA at my range and was md for 9 months, I ran a collegiate team and started a new team. I've become a certified ro, and in general have really committed myself to the sport and making it better. I just hate that because of my age I am not respected at a match when I disagree with a call, it's a shame for any sport and I hate to see it turn away younger shooter. Luckily I'm stubborn, the girlfriend probably wouldn't use the word lucky though haha. I don't mean for this to harm anyone's reputation, all I was looking for was some sort of agreement that this isn't normal stage design. As I said I'm still fairly new and experience at the big major matches is still small compared to most. I wanted to pick y'all's brains if you've ever seen it before and if you did would you think it a properly designed stage.

And that's where my understanding of this starts to fails. I'm assuming that his has something to do with how the bays are setup at this range. And (for obvious reasons) I am assuming that there is not a stage requirement that a shooter holster a loaded gun and then move to another area then draw and start shooting again. Yes and correct So, I would have to then assume that the stage design created a situation where a shooter might legitimately be right up next to a line that is perpendicular to the line of fire engaging one or more targets. And if they were to move to the other side of that line, might create a safety hazard. Yes, but FA line was the rear fault line. Crossing it did not immediately cause any safety issues, there was still a berm 180^o. They gave themselves about 4 ft of space before the side berms began to taper off. That was my biggest complaint, if there's 4 ft of space why not just move the line back, but I was told the range said they had to put the FA line where it was. So my response was then why not move the stage into the bay more to create more space at the back. I simply did not like that the FA line was apart of the shooting area. In fact I hope a rule comes from it that it won't happen again. If all this is true, then I would say that this was a poorly designed stage. A person could inadvertently step across the line after they were finished shooting and get DQ'd for it. If this was such a critical safety situation, then a physical barrier should have been used rather than a fault line. As to what should be done after the shooting started... I would say that as soon as the problem was seen, the MD should have been advised and made a decision what to do before anyone else shot the stage.

I never thought about the distance to steel rule. You're exactly right. That rules isn't in place for md's or stage designers to try and get people dq'd. It's there to prevent people getting hurt and they clearly explain that by telling us the dq line should be set off the fault line to avoid a situation similar to the one I described. Although what I described had nothing to do with distance to a steel target.

How so? I dont think me doing a little extra work to safeguard a new shooter from doing something that could result in a DQ is at all a disservice to the seasoned shooter. It takes more time and effort on my part but it in no way affects the seasoned shooter. Depends on how you meant it I guess. Simple stages with little rearward movement or targets nowhere near the 180 are boring. Better shooters want better stages. I never"cater" to new shooters when setting up a stage. I can see your point. That's not what I mean though. It's more so putting targets in positions that could be shot just past the 180 but weren't intended that way. Essentially why have it there if it is never legal to engage it at 185^o. Eliminate the sight line till essentially it cannot be engaged while breaking the 180. I know its very situational and I think we're on the same page. I don't think it's ok to do that at ANY level match, but perhaps I have misunderstood what you are saying. Why was the FA needed? It's hard to describe without showing a video but I don't want to bash any md/ match over this. I just simply don't agree. The FA was to prevent transitioning between two bays with pistol drawn. You had to re holster before crossing the line. I think there were two options. Move the FA line back, not apart of the shooting area or don't force a shooter into the position right next to it to engage a target while leaning (depending on height of the shooter hah).

How so? I dont think me doing a little extra work to safeguard a new shooter from doing something that could result in a DQ is at all a disservice to the seasoned shooter. It takes more time and effort on my part but it in no way affects the seasoned shooter.

I think all of this is great advice. In summary It all comes down to two things. 1. Plan ahead and correct the stage before anyone shoots it and 2. Setting aside your personal ego for the benefit of the shooters if there is something wrong. After all, they are the customer, the reason why the ro's, md's, rm's, stats, ect are even there right? Barring any safety issue (180, finger, ad, ect) should a competitor be dq'd over a forbidden action that is apart of the original stage design from when it was drawn up? The specific example I didn't bring up before but I do now to get feedback from you all. In short a FA was made to prevent a transition from one area to another while holding a hot firearm, but the FA line was a fault line of the shooting area. A target was put in the corner of a FA line and fault line forcing you close to the FA line, in which a simple misstep although not unsafe would result in a dq. Do you all think it's okay to do that at a higher level match? Should the FA line simply not be apart of the shooting area?

So I'm sure all of us here who take the time to help build stages for our local matches have at some point built a stage, looked at it, and then said "crap this could easily cause someone to DQ themselves (for whatever reason)." At a local match we do all we can to play to the lowest common denominator which is a new shooter. I never want anyone to go home early especially not a new shooter. At a major match there is usually more freedom for the shooters to make such a mistake but more often then not I see many major matches avoiding this type of stage because none of us want to see a shooter DQ'd. My question is this: If you as a MD/RM approve a stage at a major match, then after the first day 8 out of 100 competitors are DQ'd for the same reason including 3 more RO's during their match, would you as a MD take note to possibly admit the stage design is at fault? What action can you take at that point? Do you amend the stage, allow reshoots? Can a DQ'd shooter arbitrate this? I find the rules slightly confusing on this matter. Personally I think it all could have been avoided before the match but what do you do/ can you do if faced with a stage like this.

I am in Satellite Beach. Hah no way, that's actually where I'm from! Off topic but there is a really good burrito place right off a1a you have to go to. It's called Dakine Diegos. It's a local favorite. Satellite is a great town.

I agree with both sides of the argument (not that it matters). Let's lay it to rest. Do you need to have good consistent draws and reloads to be a GM... yes. Is it the biggest factor holding a shooter back from doing well at a match... heck no... unless you are an M/A class shooter that is deficient in that area. That being said you will need that skill later down the road to make the bump to GM so should you practice it... YES. Do it as a warm up for your dry fire every day, don't hang up on it until its perfect. Anywho, enough rambling, I think the argument is at its' conclusion. Efficiency of movement is a big deal. This was something I worked on alot and I'm not just talking about in a stage. I naturally (because of my age) can move well, but there are plenty of people who move better. As for the draw, break it down into parts, analyze your movement. For me on a surrender draw I start with my off hand in a consistent place every time (for me it's my thumb under the bill of my hat by my temple. Build a system of consistency, then it'll be subconscious. For my draw hand it starts off on the gun. I feel the perfect grip (for me I index again with my thumb on the inside of my holster...consistency!) Then I rotate my draw arm only at the elbow, why? Efficiency of movement. The less body parts I have to move during any movement = faster times and most importantly, consistency. Try it and see what you think. You can apply it to any type of draw.