ZackJones

I have them. I want to look up the rule before replying to the first one.

That was my original intent. Your class changes based on your current percentage. I was overruled on that one. Members will retain highest class achieved unless they elect to reclassify.

Link below. We want feedback from current USPSA members and the best way to do that is on the web sites. We have 2 months to collect input and then make final decisions in November.

The 4 proposals are online for review and comment. https://scsa.org/proposals

Not hiding anything but I also knew the formatting wouldn't work well in the forum. The 4 proposals are now posted on the SCSA web site. I'll do a separate post with the link.

In the 8/23/2022 minutes you'll see the following entry: DSC- Presents four proposals: 1) Peak Stage times recommendations 2) WSSC Slot Policy recommendation 3) Eliminate dropping of old class times proposals 4) Selective Re-Classification proposals We (USPSA) will be soliciting feedback from current USPSA members on each of them. The only official place where your feedback will be recognized is on the SCSA/USPSA web site. We can discuss them here if you'd like but official commentary and review (by the full board) takes place through the USPSA web site. 1 - For PST's we are recommending more time increases than decreases. Our rationale is if people shooting WSSC aren't shooting GM times on the stages then maybe we were a little too aggressive with the PST. In those cases we are added 0.10 to the current PST. 2 - Despite the rumors and misinformation already circulating WSSC WILL NOT be a slot only match in the future. We will have general registration. Slots can be earned at WSSC, your respective area match or the Canadian National Championship match. In a nutshell you could earn one slot per division based on how well you place overall, within your class, or category. 3 - This would restore all stage times to your classification record. If you were to look mine up (L4038) you'll see for some divisions I have no times listed. That's because they have all expired. This proposal would restore those times for everyone. 4 - My personal favorite. All you, the competitor, to select one or more divisions to have your currently classification letter and percentage erased and recalculated based upon the current PSTs in place. The proposals should be on the web site this week. Please review and comment, pro or con, so that we (the entire BoD) can make the best decision we can on each one. Each proposal is independent of the others.

I read through the post and, like you, didn't get a clear understanding of what he was asking so I didn't jump in right away. As you pointed out if it's in a case and brought to the line and uncased as part of the Make Ready process the only 180 of concern is the one that extends to the left and right. I can't think of any reason why, when casing or uncasing a long gun you would come close to a vertical 180. The only exception being the scabbard cases where I've seen competitors "hook" the back of the case with the muzzle of the rifle and then point it towards the ground while sliding the rifle into it. Quick side note for those that have send in rule change recommendations please cc me (zack@uspsa.org) on those so I can keep a running list. During a recent rules committee meeting report during a BoD meeting I don't recall hearing anything regarding these rules. I've attended every BoD meeting since January and will continue to do so as long as I stay in my position with USPSA. If there's rules we need to tweak please keep me in the loop.

We all have our pet peeves. This one is mine.

That would be correct. There were no SS squads Sunday afternoon the centerfire SS shot Sunday morning. I can't stand when when a computer shooting from low ready does 10-15 swings to the first plate. It's annoying to watch as a computer and even more more annoying as the RO running the timer. You never seem to when when they are going to finally settle down. I once told a competitor after their run that they didn't need to do that because it's mot like the first plate was going to move or anything. Edit - I read "SC" as SS meaning super squad and not Steel Challenge my bad on that. Still don't like it if you do the 10-15 swings to the first plate.

If side conversations are that loud one of the RO's should ask them to hold it down. All of the hearing protection I've used other than foam plugs only kick in at a certain decibel level and I doubt anyone is talking that loud.

I'm just a nobody. I'm not surprised you hadn't heard of me before :). If you don't mind please send me the proposal you guys had written up even if the data isn't current I'd like to see it (zack@uspsa.org). One idea that has been bounced around is the ability to track activity by Category. For example MD's could add RRFO/RRFI as categories. Your division would still be RFPO/RFPI respectively but by tagging your entry as an RRFO/RRFI category we could track activity over a period of time. I know the rules committee will be looking into this sort of thing for a possible change on the USPSA handgun side so now would be a good time to present this to them for additional consideration.

I'm sure we will talk about this some tonight on the pod cast but I wanted to share my 2 cents here. 1 - Eventually. We we will need time to get people trained/certified. I have used non-certified ROs at numerous matches where I've helped run them because it's hard to get enough RO's to work some of the matches. 2 - Not necessarily. I think knowing a person could follow an SC only track would motivate them more so than the the requirement to have the endorsement to work a tier 2 match. I'll share a bit about my family. I'm CRO, my wife is RO, my daughter is RO as is my son Terry. Terry and I have shot USPSA handgun matches in the past but have only shot Steel Challenge matches for the past several years (I think 2014 is the last time I shot a USPSA match). The 4 of us would jump at a chance to become SCSA only certified.

We (BoD) are working on a set of minutes from the membership meeting. It will summarize the highlights of the questions asked. Operating in the red - there are SO many expenses that people are not considering. A brief list: - Not all guns were paid entries. Sponsors are given slots, RO's are given 2 slots, USPSA Staff don't pay for slots so let's just say we had 600 paid entires. - For each $100 entry stripe (credit card processor takes a cut. - Food was $1000 per day minimum. - Range rental fee - Porta poties - Paint - Lumber - Trophies / plaques - Per diem and travel expenses for RO's - Staff appreciation dinner and swag - Ice / water / snacks - Golf cart rental from range - 25 Pizza's for the membership meeting I could go on but I think you get the picture. All national matches are very expensive for us to run. You guys concentrate on the shooting and let us concentrate on putting on a good match, okay?

There is no formal request from anyone that I have any knowledge of that has brought this before the board. I've participated in every BoD meeting this year. I will tell you about an idea I was thinking about on the drive home from WSSC though related to Rimfire Revolver. A couple of times Sherwyn has mentioned sub-categories for certain guns. Using Rimfire Revolvers as an example we could create a sub-category under RFPI and RFPO for Revolver. This way when you register and shoot a match with your revolver we could track usage over time. This would give us good data to use to make an informed decision on the viability of such a division. As luck would have it I picked up a speed bees loader and block off the prize table at WSSC so I'm going to shoot some Rimfire revolver in the future. I just need to find the gun first.

I expect I'll be doing a lot of talking with competitors next week prior to and after the membership meeting. New stages - This is something I want to give some serious consideration to. One immediate idea which I'm not sure if it's a good one or not is to take the 8 existing stages and make smaller more compact versions of them. Modify 5 to Go to be a straight diagonal line without the big swing to the right for the stop plate. That would permit indoor ranges or ranges that prohibit shooting into the berm to run an official stage. Close up the spacing so that it can be run on smaller bays. That would be the primary objective of new stages, IMO. Smaller, tighter stages so that indoor ranges could run them. Outer Limits - I really want to do an analysis of movement between boxes and in my copious (ha ha) spare time next week I plan to do some timing. I think movement is here to stay on that one but dropping from 4 to 3 just seems like the right thing to do, IMO.

Exactly. You're welcome to ignore them all you want. On the other hand if it permits clubs that can't currently host SCSA matches due to space limitations providing them a set of official stages would be a good thing for our sport.

Oh NO! The 8 stages we have would remain as they are. We would create 8 new stages based on the current 8. They would have different names and SC-XXX numbers to keep them totally separate from our current 8. Sorry I wasn't clear about that.

Two points (1) If it helps a C or D shooter improve isn't that a good thing? They could possibly be moving up into a more competitive class and will be facing new challenges which I think is a good thing (2) I'm able bodied though my mental capacity has been questioned a few times :). I plan to shoot it center box only (CBO) at our next club match just to compare my WSSC time with movement to CBO time without movement. I thought about shooting it CBO at WSSC but decided I'd shoot with movement there and CBO at club match.

I've been tied up with other stuff lately so I haven't been around. I worked Multigun Nationals this past week. Let's just say you'll never see this guy registered for one of those matches. I can appreciate the skill required for that match but a man has to know his limitations. I personally believe the 4 second penalty is too high. 3 just seems right so I'll be doing additional research and doing actual timing myself as I look into it more. Stages - I've had two good discussions about stages in the past few weeks. There is a need for official states that are smaller so that they could be shot on smaller bays outdoors and indoors (that was the primary topic of one of the discussions). One idea for new stages would be to take the 8 we have now and compress them so they would fit on smaller bays. The stop plate on 5 To Go would need to be moved so that if run indoors you would not be shooting the side walls. Obviously none of this is set in stone and would require BoD review and approval but I wanted you to know we are listening to your feedback both pro and con.

Someone draft up a proposal for the change and either send it to your Area director or to me. That way my committee can do a formal review and make a recommendation to the full board. There are lots of things to consider about such a change though. For sure PST's would change across all divisions. Does this stage now become basically a much longer Showdown but shot from the center instead of left and right boxes? How would removing movement help clubs that don't have sufficient room to run the stage now? The next time our local match runs this stage I'm going to shoot it from center box only and take the 4 second penalty just to see how my times compare to shooting it with movement.

Absolutely come shoot a big match. The biggest difference between a big match and your club match -- it's just the number of people in attendance. That's how I look at it and I've run a couple of world attendance record Steel Challenge matches. One year at WSSC there was a female junior shooter that attended and shot it as her first ever Steel Challenge match. She won free entry at a junior camp and she came out and had a great time.

This would require a rule change which would take BoD approval.

I read his original post and subsequent post and I don't have a good answer, tbh. On the surface it seems very simple. The classification system was created as a way to measure your abilities against a standard. As we quickly learned I was way off on some of the initial PST's. We had very good data for all fo the center fire divisions but virtually none for Rimfire and PCC. Over time we have made adjustments based on times being shot at WSSC. We have looked at other matches in the past but we end up with the same group of people setting the fastest times regardless of match location. We do not have any goals such as X% of any division by in Y class, etc. It's there to serve as a measurement and that's really its only purpose.

I'm sorry I wasn't clear in my statement. I didn't mean to ruffle your tail feathers :). What I should have said was for INITIAL classification perhaps make it be based on the speed 6 and not all classifications. Sometimes my fingers don't type what my brain may be thinking at the time :).

We have used various ranges such as 95 - 105 and 95 - 115 or 95-120 and 95-110 seems to be the sweet spot as far as the numbers go. For one year we did look at matches besides WSSC but it didn't make a significant difference. For our analysis this year we'll use 2021 and 2022 WSSC results so we will have a larger dataset to work with. The original intent, at least when we first started working on classification by division, was that your classification would be based on your current percentage. That's why we implemented the current year plus 2 previous years when calculating it. When HQ decided steel classification would be like USPSA and be based on your fastest time regardless of when it was shot dropping data doesn't make since. That's why we're planning to bring back all times for classification purposes. There are ranges that can't shoot Outer Limits and Speed Option due to a lack of bay size. I could see at some point in the future making classification be based on the "speed six" stages as we call them. Every range should be able to run those stages.