matt7184

it is very simple, and I also am not an accushadow owner. I just like to make fun of all the crazy suicidal stuff IDPA is doing to try to make the sport irrelevant. It's like watching a car crash, or a fat chick pole-dancing. I'm not a fan of the IDPA rules myself....but I don't understand the whining about this AccuShadow issue. My interpretation of the IDPA rules coincides with that of IDPA apparently...and the AccuShadow is not legal. With that said, while some of the IDPA rules may be silly, I'm not sure USPSA is in much better shape with the questionable weight practices, Production list practices, or timergate.

Wow. I'm really happy you know how to use a dictionary. You should share this discovery with IDPA. Teach them how CZ Custom is the manufacturer. Alma for IDPA president.

It's really simple actually. But I'm not a butt hurt Accu-Shadow owner. Enjoy shooting your AccuShadow in the next IDPA match since it's legal.

That's your own made-up definition. They don't have to be the same company to be manufacturers. ATF and IDPA both disagree with you (and oddly enough, this one time, they are right, because you are wrong). Yup, IDPA disagrees hence why they put it up on their Facebook Page...haha!!!! So are you proclaiming CZ Custom is a separate manufacturer and is the real manufacturer of the AccuShadow? Just curious but who submitted the paperwork for USPSA Production for the gun???

Again, CZ Custom is not an OEM: http://www.triangletactical.net/2014/09/09/hours-before-nationals-idpa-rules-cz-accu-shadow-illegal-for-ssp/

No, CZ Custom doesn't count as an OEM, hence why IDPA banned the gun... they are not the same company. How do you not comprehend this? http://companies.findthebest.com/l/8529916/Cz-Usa-in-Kansas-City-KS http://companies.findthebest.com/l/219941/Ghost-Products-Cz-Custom-Shop-in-Mesa-AZ for reference...a manufacturer... http://companies.findthebest.com/l/6806296/Smith-And-Wesson-Holding-Corporation-in-Springfield-MA Enjoy taking a look at the SIC/NAICs classifications... Per CZ-USA... " About CZ-USACZ products are imported exclusively by CZ-USA, a wholly-owned subsidiary of the parent company, Ceska Zbrojovka a.s. Uhersky Brod, (CZUB) of the Czech Republic. Our firearms have been available through normal channels in the US since 1991, through such importers/distributors as Bauska, Action Arms and Magnum Research. In 1997 CZUB recognized the need to control its own destiny in a market as big as the US. Initially based in Oakhurst, California, the CZ-USA headquarters and warehouse facility was moved to Kansas City in January of 1998. All distribution, warranty work and repair work is located in the Kansas City, KS location, along with a well-stocked parts department." http://cz-usa.com/company/about-cz-usa/ But I'm sure Alma still can't comprehend the difference between a manufacturer, importer, and third party gunsmith even after all this...lol.

How many employees do you guys think CZ Custom actually has? Do you think all they do is make guns all day? CZ Custom does great work, but they don't only make AccuShadows 365/24/7....The not meeting 2k a year speculation is not very far fetched and has been questioned before in other threads.

http://www.idpa.com/misc/RC/IDPARulesClarification-v2014-06-15.pdf Question: Is this slide machining allowed in IDPA? Answer: Yes. With respect to slide machining, SSP, ESP and CDP, Original Equipment Manufacturer (OEM) firearms with extensive slide machining are approved for use in IDPA if they meet all other requirements for their respective Divisions. For slide machining, an OEM product is defined as a complete firearm product, with specific model part numbers or sku’s catalogued as stock items by the manufacturer and have a minimum annual production of 2,000 units for that specific model. Discontinued models must have had a total production of 20,000 units for a specific model. IDPA HQ is working on a process and document to be available on www.idpa.com to allow OEMs to identify firearms that meet this requirement. And you fail to understand that CZ Custom is not CZ-UB. Show me the AccuShadow here: http://www.czub.cz/cz/catalog/79-pistole-cz.aspx

What rule book are you looking at? And it is a complete firearm. Made illegal for IDPA SSP by a third party gunsmith: Ghost/CZ-Custom. This is very simple. I think the AccuShadow is an awesome gun, but the whiners here are annoying. It's not legal for SSP. If you hate IDPA so much don't shoot it. Go to a USPSA match and have Paul Hendrix work your timer as you shoot an FNS 9L

You're wrong. IDPA is out to get ya if you have a AccuShadow.... IPSC too: http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=161422&p=1802146

It absolutely matters who owns what. It's why a Performance Center gun is allowed, but not a CZ Custom AccuShadow. Go read the whole damn rule book. "OEM product is defined as a complete firearm product - Shadows that require milling do not fit with specific model part numbers or sku’s catalogued as stock items by the manufacturer - They do have SKUs, as do the hats CZ sells... and have a minimum annual production of 2,000 units for that specific model" - I'd love to see 2k a year of the AccuShadows and Shadow Targets... Anymore questions?

Don't quit your day job to become a lawyer because you suck at reading comprehension. ROTFL. Please explain then because I'm too stupid to comprehend.

These are legal modifications using OEM parts. It is a bit different than a third party dramatically milling a slide which is prohibited. Read the rest of the rules. Here you go: http://members.idpa.com/Content/Rules/g0hunysc.eoc.pdf Either way I doubt CZ Custom can crank out 2000 Shadow Targets or AccuShadows or whatever model they have annually per SSP requirements.

It does not violate SSP rules. What don't you understand? Granted I'm not a tool who posts my guns in my signature...haha

What is special about that M9A1? New sights and a trigger job? No extreme milling there. It's just a M9A1.

Or the FNS 9L situation...

And correct me if I am wrong...but aren't their master gunsmiths also active competitors who travel? And I'm sure these guys (and gals if any) have families.

5.48 You don't work during holidays and weekends? http://shootersmagazine.com/cz75-sp-01-accu-shadow-from-cz-custom-shop/ When was the AccuShadow approved in USPSA?

I never said only. However the gun caters to the USPSA crowd. Most people in the general public do not buy $1200+ guns nor will they hunt for a gun that is not readily available......especially not a CZ. And it seems like I am not the only one questioning the 2k+ numbers of AccuShadows available to the general public: http://www.gunnuts.net/2014/09/09/breaking-cz-accu-shadow-not-legal-for-idpa-ssp/

JGus...it isn't a crusade. I just question the numbers. I could absolutely be wrong. And as far as AccuShadows are concerned...I think the arrangements made between CZ USA and CZ Custom have blurred the lines as to who the real manufacturer is and what is legally defined as the manufacturer. I just find it interesting that for an organization with 25,000 active members that it's so hard to find a gun with more than 2000 produced. I agree about the timing and that it isn't a magical gun by any means. The timing stunk and I do feel bad for the people planning to shoot the guns at Nationals. I think IDPA is trying to make things right by providing loaner guns and equipment or refunds (and yes, I know it's not ideal at all). Article on the topic: http://www.gunnuts.net/2014/09/10/more-on-the-idpa-ban-of-the-cz-accu-shadow/

Jesus H Christ on a cracker, the IDPA rules make no mention of corporate structure or subcontractual agreements when defining what OEM is or is not. Ghost/CZ Custom(a separate custom shop) is milling slides. They are not the manufacturer. Is CZ Custom a legally licensed firearms manufacturer? Feel free to review 8.2.1.3. Unless the guns are coming complete from CZ-USA, I don't see how they would be legal according to the IDPA rules. And I do have a hard time believing there are 2000 AccuShadows out there. It seems like most of the people are just butt hurt here that the IDPA has ruled the gun illegal. I don't have direct input, but it seems that my interpretation is the same as those at IDPA HQ. I think they have a direct say because I don't think anyone will be using CZ AccuShadow...

Yes they are hard to find but I do not find it hard to believe that there are at least 2000 out there. As we all know, as soon as these things are available for sale, they are usually gone that same day. Most shops have implemented a wait list for these things. When they become available mostly all are already spoken for. I got lucky with mine. It was actually sitting in a display case at one of my local gun shops. Well CZ Custom isn't a huge operation unless I am totally misinformed. I am curious to know how many Accushadows they could realistically put out daily. 2000 modified Shadows seems like a bit of work for a few guys. Blind Bat: I think the CZ Custom stuff is a bit of a joke personally whether it comes to running an Accushadow in Production or SSP. My personal belief is CZ gets special treatment with the rules (especially USPSA), but I am sure others will disagree.

From that link...BY CZ CUSTOM SHOP. Which is another company not owned by CZ-UB/USA.

"OEM product is defined as a complete firearm product, with specific model part numbers or sku’s catalogued as stock items by the manufacturer and have a minimum annual production of 2,000 units for that specific model" So unless the Accushadow comes from CZ-USA (legal importer for CZ-UB) complete...I don't understand how it would be legal in IDPA. IDPA may make a lot of head scratching decisions and rules, but this one seems to make sense to me.

Granted it's Wikipedia...but it states that USPSA has 25,000 active members. Am I the only one that finds it odd that Accushadows are hard to get but there are 2,000+ out there?