Blackstone45
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Posts posted by Blackstone45
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I don't think he's dismissing trigger control, more that OP has clearly said many times he is experiencing shaking which results in more movement that would be naturally expected.
That said, OP also said:
QuoteI think I'm shooting when I think I'm on the target and I've moved the gun already
If you take this approach, where you're trying to shoot when you think you're on target, that lends itself to poor trigger control and/or poor sight alignment. The problem is, you won't realise this. You THINK you're doing everything correct, but when you focus on chasing that perfect bullseye, you aren't focusing on your trigger pull and sights.
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Thanks, will try this. One of my biggest issues before was that my support hand would loosen after a couple of shots, and I was always told that I wasn't gripping hard enough.
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Just now, Rnlinebacker said:
focus your tension on your support hand WRIST and not the fingers. Relax the fingers some and that should alleviate the pressure on shooting hand finger
Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk
Now that you mention it, my sights track up and to the right. While it arguably doesn't matter which way the sights move as long as they come back down aligned, this is still symptomatic of too much weak hand pressure, right?
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Through a combination of Hwansik Kim's videos and other top shooters' take on grip, I think I'm getting very close to a grip that lets the sights resettle themselves. However, I've encountered a problem where my support hand is crushing the middle finger of the shooting hand into the gun's grip, to the point that it's actually quite painful and remains rather tender. And when I dry fire everyday, it means little respite for it. Has anyone else experienced this?
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Yes I'd be curious to see how much movement there is, and also a video of the laser on the target downrange.
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3 hours ago, xdf3 said:
It's shaking, I think it's more than expected 'cause of my muscle strength. I think I could still hit the C zone most of the times if it was a target, but I couldn't say I would hit 100% A's. I'm in the 20-30 range and I'm pretty weak, except for my grip probably (which I can still improve). If I didn't use the laser I'd perceive it as still, or almost, but with the laser I'd say the movement is at least twice of the plate itself. If it's 8", an ideal group would be 16" assuming I would shoot infinite rounds. And since I can't shoot the exact moment I'm in the center of the target, an error will be evident. Also, all of this assuming my ammo goes straight (with an ideal 0.5" group). Add that factor and I think it's all explained.
Maybe I can still work on ammo, I don't know what's the tighest group I can shoot, assuming there's no human error involved.
Ammo is not the thing you need to be concerned about. If you're shaking, maybe you're gripping the gun too hard. Maybe you do need to hit the weights a bit. Buy some resistance bands and do reps while holding them in your hands in the same stance you would shoot a pistol in.
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1 hour ago, xdf3 said:
I tried again. No way this can be solved by more trigger control or dry fire, at the moment. I don't know if it could be improved by developing more muscle strength or anything else. But it's not practical at all for any shooting competition to just wait to see the proper sight picture while I'm moving so much. Shooting in 3 seconds instead of 0.5 for example, might be a huge difference in a competition.
What kind of movement are you experiencing? Are you actually shaking or twitching? If you set up an IPSC target at 33yrds, how far out does your movement take you? Into the D zone? How old are you, if you don't mind me asking? I don't know if it's more about muscle strength. I'm a pretty weak guy, I have barely any biceps and my forearm is far from ripped. But I have no problem holding the gun still enough, even in one-handed bullseye shooting.
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2 hours ago, xdf3 said:
I've just checked by putting a laser under my gun and tracking the movement with a camera.
From what I see, 90% of the error comes from my arms moving, and me not being stable enough. No way I can shoot where I want with that much movement. Not an issue at all for most matches, but when it comes to hitting a plate at 30+ yards, I can't be sure of hitting it.
It's kinda sad to realize but I can work on it some way. I was pretty sure it wasn't because of slapping the trigger or such stuff.
If you're moving that much with a two handed grip, you may be gripping too hard, or your stance is suboptimal. That aside, it may be you have unrealistic expectations for how much movement there should be.
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7 hours ago, xdf3 said:
I can't have a group if I don't know what's wrong, that's the key part. So I have to understand what's causing the issue, or if it's a sum.
Of course you can still have a group. It just sounds like a big group. Put a target up at 33 yards, fire 10 shots at it. Aim at the same place on the target for all 10 shots, shoot them in the same way, and don't look at the target until the end. Congratulations, you have now shot a group. How big is the spread?
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55 minutes ago, xdf3 said:
I'm raising the question because I think I have a good trigger pull + good sight alignment, but I can't hold the gun so that it doesn't move. If I place a target behind a plate at 33 yards, the hits will spread around the plate (plus hitting it). No consistency. I'm not sure I'm pressing so bad that it can do that, sights won't move. I believe it's much more about the little movement in my hands, but I'm not sure of that yet (I'll have to do more experiments). I'm not sure of ammo neither, but I have no ransom rest.
Maybe all factors sum up and create a bad result. It's a CZ Shadow2.
What kind of movement is it? Is it like random twitches or shaking? Or just natural movement around the point of aim? Natural movement is inevitable as you are a living breathing human being on two feet. But with that kind of movement, the sights tend to stay aligned, and you end up just drifting around the 9 ring. So any shots should all fall within the 9 ring. The problems come when it's a shaking or twitching movement as that does take the sights out of alignment. And that translates to a bad shot downrange. A common mistake is that the shooter becomes far too fixated on aiming at the dead centre of the target and trying to fight the natural movement of the gun, that they lose focus on their sight alignment. So when the shot breaks, they think their front post was in the middle, but it ends up being a hit in the 6-ring.
What is your group size at 33 yards?
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10 hours ago, Localizer said:
That there’s just crazy talk...
Jack is correct. The whole point of red dots is that you don't have to align sights. The shot will go wherever the dot appears, no matter what position your head is at. Otherwise there wouldn't be much point using red dots over iron sights. Just take a red dot, aim it at a target, then move your head slightly. The dot will also move but will always stay on target.
This is why you shoot a red dot with target focus instead of front sight focus. The point of front sight focus is to make sure the sights are aligned. You don't need to align a red dot.
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I'm left-handed but right eye dominant, and I just learned to shoot with my right hand.
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There's no magic bullet, just lots of deliberate dryfire. Stance and grip etc.. will help you manage the recoil more, but none of that matters if you're throwing shots due to bad trigger pull.
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36 minutes ago, JamesEM said:
I am right handed. My moving my grip around I meant turning my hand to where it gave me more finger on the trigger. I wasn't trying to get more or less finger on the trigger just adjusting the way the gun was in my hands.
As in rotating your right hand slightly anticlockwise?
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Is the following expectation realistic: that you align the sights, close your eyes, fire, and when you open your eyes, the sights should have come back down aligned on their own?
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If your gun can't shoot an 8" group at 30 yards, you need to put some sights on it.
Sight alignment and trigger pull are the most important. As another poster has already said, if it's slowfire precision, then that's all you need. Then find a comfortable stance and grip that minimises any of the natural movement you will have as a living breathing human being.
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13 hours ago, Tok36 said:
This is a good point that i did not think of, if the slide were racked without the FP installed the FP plate may very well fall out.
Here is a reference pic for the O ring that was suggested by other forum members above.
Will try that, thanks
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That's an interesting difference between USPSA and IPSC, that you're allowed to take a sight picture and dry fire before the start signal.
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Thanks for the responses, makes sense!
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Got swept (with a loaded gun) by a gentleman doing the 180 turn and draw. Of course he drew then turned.
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Possible stupid question incoming: If I know I'll be doing a lot of dryfiring and no live fire for a decent length of time, would it make sense to remove the firing pin in order to prolong its life?
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On 5/4/2019 at 12:32 PM, MemphisMechanic said:
Grip harder with the offhand - which all new shooters need to do anyway. It should be crushing the gun hard enough someone who was a victim of your handshake would be uncomfortable.
Firm weak hand grip (experiment with a little pressure on the frame with your thumb too!) won’t let your strong hand push the gun laterally so easily.
Understand there are two fundamental causes of this:
1) Your trigger finger is pushing the gun as you stroke it rearward.
Or
2) Your other stronghand fingers are tightening subconsciously as your trigger finger tightens to move the trigger.
#2 is helped by gripping the gun more firmly; if you begin gripping with double the pressure then your hand is not going to tense up as much - it’s already there.
In general gripping hard is great for our form of shooting. It’s possible to easily get to B class with a comfortable grip. When pushing beyond that is when people begin to learn to clamp down on the gun so it stays flat and the sights return faster... so you might as well learn this right off the bat.
If your forearms aren’t burning while you’re conducting dryfire practice, you’re selling yourself short when it comes to shooting live ammo. Grip hard.
Interestingly, I find that when I grip really tightly with my weak (left) hand, it pulls my shots left. I think the heel of my support hand pushes right on the grip, which causes the muzzle to point towards the left. This is obviously a symptom of having too much lateral pressure. Haven't had the chance to go shooting since I started working on a new front-to-back C-clamp grip based on Hwansik's PSTG video and his interview on the Firearms Nation podcase.
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Had a chance to handle and shoot the Phoenix Redback in Switzerland. The full steel Redback is a heavy gun, but has a beautifully crisp single action trigger, and a very smooth double action trigger.
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On 4/23/2019 at 8:56 PM, Rnlinebacker said:
hand tension and wrist tension are two separate entities. Lock your wrist but relax your right to just hold the gun gently between your fingers. Don't monkey grip the gun with your dominant hand. You're dominant wrist being locked will control the muzzle rise.
Lock your support hand wrist 100% but again don't smash your fingers against the strong hand. Wrists will lift and allow gun to return back to zero if stance is good
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Yes, one of the big takeaways from Hwansik's recoil video
Adam Tyc IPSC - a living legend?
in Handgun Techniques
Posted
Isn't Eric Grauffel a more accomplished shooter than Tyc