HOGRIDER

Being inspired by @scooterj's success at installing an Atlas trigger in an MPA grip, I decided that since I really liked the look and function of the Red Dirt USA triggers, I was going to see how much work would be involved in adapting one for an MPA SS grip. I decided the "Cheely" version offered the closest dimensions to the MPA; and that it might be able to work with some dedicated modifications; especially the OAL of the trigger bow which is quiet a bit longer on the Cheely . My first observation is that MPA is dedicating the manufacturing of their grips to be a bit "proprietary" in order to encourage (?) shooters to use the OEM offerings for their replacement triggers. For my personal use, I like a trigger that has a fully supported bow rather than having the front of the bow aligned in the MPA grip's trigger bow channel by the height of the trigger shoe in it's dedicated track. I'm sure others feel my concerns are unwarranted........ After having a Master Machinist friend reduce the thickness of the front of the trigger bow, I was able to utilize the Red Dirt USA trigger, have all safety functions pass, and still have sufficient "pre-travel" to allow full function of the hammer's half cock with full disconnector reset! IMHO, I think it turned out very nice and am in the process of field testing in the very near future. Dry fire, feel, fit, and function are excellent in bench testing!

Excellent points as I had no idea of what's involved in fitting an SV grip/trigger assembly.......... I do remember installing a Cheely trigger in a ES STI gen 1 grip for a 2019 Staccato P, and that went very easy; especially since Cheely was making the shoes .240" wide at the time. Ended up being an excellent trigger! And it did only have the lower bearing surfaces on the rear of the bow.......... Thanks for your info!

I understand how the height of the trigger bow has been reduced/modified to save and eliminate weight. Guess STI was one of the first to develop (for the 2011) this style and I'm sure it has worked well for a long time! And I respect that SVI offers their replacement trigger with the bottom bearing surfaces at the rear and none at the front of the bow! So the bow front is being supported/aligned parallel with the grip bow track by the trigger shoe?? I see that most premium aftermarket triggers are also putting the lower bearing surfaces at the front AND rear bottom of the bow; and I'm wondering if that provides any real benefit? In my unexperienced mind I would feel that optimal trigger function would occur if the bow was running/riding parallel with the specific track that's machined into the grip. Regardless of what the trigger shoe is doing; however I feel it should be fit also to run correctly in it's dedicated track with minimal lateral and vertical free play! And I still feel that Kuhnhausen's reference to fitting the bow AND shoe is still applicable to today's 2011 race guns! Thanks for your reply/feedback @shred

Interesting points that you make as I too have noted the STI, SV, and previous Cheely offerings all controlled (front) vertical movement with the trigger shoe. But I also noted that in the original 1911 prints the trigger bow was a consistent height, front to rear, of .232"-.004" while the trigger bow receiver track was cut .233"+.005". And Kuhnhausen specifically mentions to minimize component friction by addressing trigger bow to frame "and" trigger shoe (fingerpiece) to frame clearancing. At this point I'm still wondering if it's advantageous to fit for surface points of the bow (f&r) in case there's insufficient fit in the bottom of a trigger shoe to maintain proper bow to grip frame alignment? Thanks for your feedback!

Wondering if there are "benefits" to using an aftermarket trigger where the bow uses front and rear "shoes/extensions" to align it with the bow track in a 2011 grip? I have noticed a few that only have the shoes/extensions (for a better word description) on the rear; which in my understanding would require the bottom of the trigger shoe to be the bearing surface for maintaining correct horizontal travel "evenly" in the grip along with maintaining perpendicularity of the bow as it travels back an forth in the grip track. On the other hand I have premium trigger assemblies by Atlas/Geppert, LSI, Red Dirt, etc that indeed use front and rear extended bearing surfaces (shoes/estensions) that in my mind are allowing the shoe to be fit to the trigger shoe opening/slot while maintaining a parallel position of the trigger bow in the grip track which would IMO provide a much smoother, precise trigger pull consistency. Is my thinking correct? Or am I placing concern on a non-issue? Thanks for your feedback; and I've enclosed some pics illustrating an stock MPA LOC trigger, Atlas/Geppert, LSI, and Red Dirt.

IMO, constant following of the hammer to a "full width/captured half cock will eventually ruin a precision cut sear face unless the hammer has this type of half cock retention: https://www.speedshooter.com/product/doug-koenig-low-mass-hammer-1911/ Regardless of hammer type, following/dropping to half cock should be addressed and repaired ASAP. It is a safety feature.

@Sarge I've used a bunch of EGW sears over the years and they have all been excellent made; but it's been a while since I purchased a recent one. Wondering if you compared the one you received with any of the print specs to see if it was an out of spec sear or excessive build-up of Cerakote on the frame? I'm seriously considering a Prodigy to "play with" but wondering if I'll need to have it stripped and refinished to get good interference with the fire control group? And I doubt sending it back to SA for excessive build-up of the coating would bode well with Warranty Department........ Thanks!

Yea, PW and the Log Man are two of the many knowledgeable I've encountered; along with the late Jerry Keefer. Many there do fully understand the 1911 platform; but I think Richard (Log) may be entering the retirement phase........ A great site to research........

Some very professional discussion on the subject.......... https://www.1911forum.com/threads/overcocking-with-factory-sa-hammer.335636/

@TheSandMan491 Thanks for sharing the text!

IF your on the "FB", Spencer Karoll, one of the Engineers, has an update here: https://www.facebook.com/reel/960887579004289 My take is the mechanical side is good; just working on perfecting the software side.......

Same here! None of the available "drop in kits" have ever met my personal final requirements. But the wire EDM machining of the EE hammers, sears, and disconnectors do provide me with surfaces needing little to no stoning for final fitting. IMO, for a competition 2011 LO type setup, the Brazos Pro kit has required the least amount of additional fitting/tuning if I'm recommending a "drop in" kit........

Having loaded for MANY YEARS on a couple off XL650s, I made the move to the RL1100. Ran it manually for right at 2 years. Purchased the Mark 7 Apex 10; operated it for a year manually, and now have it fully automated. All my loading has been primarily competition pistol calibers. I can honestly say I totally agree with @StefVanHauwein that the Apex10 is a superior machine to the RL1100; especially now that they are basically in the same price range! I would NEVER want to go back to 8 stations, vs 10 with the Mark 7! I primarily do single pass reloading with fully pre-process brass; and IMO, the two extra stations along with a standard 7/8" x 14 threaded port over the priming station are definitely game changers! And if you do decide to go automated, the Mark 7 Digital Automation with optional Sensors truly gives me piece of mind while allowing me to produce consistent premium quality reloads! HTHs!

@yigal: The pic offered by @GunBugBitdoes not do the EE Race Disconnector justice............ The contact surfaces come pre-polished: https://www.shootersconnectionstore.com/Browse-by-Manufacturer/Extreme-Engineering/Extreme-Race-Disconnector

@DrewM I would have to agree if the Deep River Customs kit was merely a group of parts that were picked and used to complete the order as are the Thunder Mountain kits; of which I have purchased several! Same thing happens with EGW's ignition "kits" as they are a box of parts that are being picked from specific bins of individual parts to make up the kit. Knowing the folks personally at Deep River, I don't think this is the case. I honestly feel that their "kit" is going though a series of final hand fitting, polishing, adjusting, and dimensionally checking to take out the fine tuning and polishing work that you and I would normally do prior to final installation. Of course, the end user will need to adjust the final desired weight of the sear spring. I also feel Deep River's custom kit is similar to what Bob is doing with his EXCELLENT Brazos Pro Performance Tuned Trigger Group; of which I also have personal experiences with: https://www.1911store.com/Tuned-Trigger-Group-BCG-Brazos-Pro.aspx Anyone having interest in or specific questions about the Deep River kit can obtain detailed info by calling Hugh at the Florida location: (352) 556-1789. HTHs!

If I were wanting to update a Prodigy with EXCELLENT quality parts that are ready to drop in, this would be my go to: https://deeprivercustoms.com/product/trigger-kit/ Minor adjusting of the sear spring to get the pull weight your after!

Understand........... I've never shot IDPA; but if their allowed, would recommend the Atlas IDPA Shielded for LH! https://atlasgunworks.com/product/shielded-idpa-lefty-thumb-safety-dlc

Assuming you bought the Hybrid Black - IDPA edition........I wonder if IDPA rules allow the use of extended ambi safeties? Do they have to fit in a "box" for Carry Optics Division? If not, I'd check to see if anyone offered a shielded ambi for lefties! Really like the Double Tap RH shielded safety on my LOC.......

@arcsign Here's an excellent example of a "tuned" fire control group that includes PREMIUM parts and the excellent Red Dirt trigger specifically designed for the Prodigy stock grip: https://deeprivercustoms.com/product/trigger-kit/ https://reddirt-usa.com/st-trigger/prodigy-grip/ It's very important, IMO, to have an aftermarket trigger that offers a trigger bow that's not too long; and simplified adjustments that definitely benefit the beginner or less experienced shooter! If your using the Prodigy for competition, most 2011 type guns will use the 17# mainspring; especially with updated ignition parts! And YES, it's safe to assume that all individual 1911/2011 parts will need fitting and/or adjusting to produce a SAFE and trouble free pistol! HTHs

I think most will agree, but IMO you may want to stick with the stock ambi safety until your ready to upgrade your entire ignition system! If you purchase a shielded ambi to use with your existing parts, the safety will have to be fit to your existing sear/hammer configuration. Then if you later purchase an upgraded ignition system (highly recommended), you'll have to spend additional money on another safety or at least have yours welded and refit to the new components. There is the possibly of having a new ignition system fit that doesn't require a new thumb safety; however it will take a very experienced 1911/2011 gunsmith that can measure and recut a sear to match existing specs. Good luck! The Prodigy is an excellent platform to get started with! PS: Not sure your on FB; but if so, there's some excellent posts regarding setting up the Prodigy for LO! Be sure and take notice of the posts by Jeffrey Abernathy......... https://www.facebook.com/groups/733497351411414/search/?q=Prodigy

There are TONS of posts about using the Prodigy for USPSA competition on this very site: https://forums.brianenos.com/search/?q=Prodigy&quick=1&type=forums_topic&nodes=3 IMO, find a good 1911/2011 gunsmith near you or in your region that can help you decide and make the right choices based on your actual needs! It's a great platform to start with! Good luck!

Don't remember as it's been a while ago since I removed the spring....but if so, it would be a simple matter of adjusting the micrometer a few "clicks". Using quality JHP bullets, my Redding with NO SPRING averages OALs in the +/- .0025" range once the shell plate is full.

Doesn't need approval! I have a friend that's an Engineer at Redding and he told me it was perfectly alright to remove the spring and use the die without it! I did that and am experiencing excellent OAL consistency!

With the approval of Redding Customer Service and Engineering, it's ok to completely remove the spring if the die has been disassembled, cleaned, and lubricated per instructions. Myself, and many others here, have removed the spring and are using the die with excellent results in depth/OAL consistency. Check the previous posts in this thread............

Sorry........yes I was referring to TRIGGER bounce........