Moltke

Great thread STL I have found two solutions for the poor mounting system of the Prismatic 1) peen the metal on the mount to pinch the optic base and essentially quick fit the optic & mount together 2) buy a Larue mount for the prismatic for $95 and throw the factory mount in the trash

What is your trajectory and what level of detail have you put into it? Is it worth the time to find all that out given the target sizes we shoot? What sights?

Seems to me a scope with a MIL or BDC reticle fixed at 1x and an actual red dot function would be a highly competitive against irons, a dot, or even a Pris for the average person. Especially when you do whatever math is required to compensate for the distortion of the reticle at 1x and then dope working holdovers with your new "irons optic". If the goal of all this is to increase Irons participation then I think we're going about it the wrong way. The division would be better off if matches didn't have rifle targets that 25% of shooters can't see without a scope, and 50% of the shooters can't hit without a scope - but the way the sport has been going since I got in is more tech and harder targets.

"Shot Calling" has been taught to me as watching the front sight lift off the target and knowing that's where the the bullet went. Learning how to get that information from my sights has made me much faster with a pistol than waiting on the target to fall. Are people doing this with the shotgun too or just trusting that when they press the trigger, the target will go down? I'd really like to know what you're doing, where you're looking (sights focus? target focus?) and what you're SEEing as confirmation that the shot was acceptable. It is apparent to me that we cannot wait to see steel fall or clays to burst when speed shooting the shotgun so how do you know when to go to the next target? So who's doing what and how's it working out for you?

After shooting some 3GN regionals this year it was apparent to me that my rifle splits and transitions inside 50 yards are slower than other people and I think its because I DO in fact make sure to see my sights for every shot instead of double tapping papers. Who here is just straight up double tapping and moving on?

I used to have problems shooting slugs until I changed my sights to an adjustable rear sight dovetailed into my vent rib and a thinner front fiber. After actually zeroing the gun for 50 yards there's really no guesswork anymore so I rarely miss a slug target. Who else has done something like this and what were your results?

If you get a ready to go out of the box "3 gun rifle" (aka race gun!), zero it and tune it, then it's probably going to be a long time before you need to upgrade anything Personally, I've been very happy with my Armalite 13 and 18 since I got them

You would probably come out ahead with the smaller (lighter) gun for close range hosing because you can drive it faster when transitioning between targets with the same amount of muscle, even if there was a barely discernible difference in felt recoil.

Wait what? This is already out? What is the reticle?

Most 3 gun shotguns are going to be accessorized the same (or similar) - new sights, open the loading port, + capacity tube, a couple chokes, and a matchsaver... The differences really come down to operating system design and what the means for weight and recoil with regard to the shootability of a platform In my experience, the gas guns Versamax & SLP Competition both shoot noticeably softer than the recoil operated shotguns like Benellis & the A5, but the Benellis and the A5 are considerably lighter guns... As a shooter do you value lighter recoil or lighter guns? Personally I value lighter recoil and so I own a Versamax & now an FN SLP Competition If you're getting into 3 Gun then you should really consider buying a "ready to go" out of the box competition gun because it will be a long time before you outgrow it

I have both the 13 inch and 18 Armalite rifles and they are pretty fantastic

Looks pretty slick, I've been very happy with their 13 and 18 inch game guns

My understanding is just enough gas power to lock open on an empty magazine, just enough spring to strip rounds off a loaded magazine, and the smallest reciprocating mass possible. Get it to where it's working in all weather conditions, feels good when you shoot, and then don't worry about it too much.

Anything for the close range stuff Stillwood 69gr for the long stuff And I actually shoot an Armalite

So if these matches your attending are so easy turn your winning right? Obviously the question is in jest but the point I'm trying to make is there should be an accuracy challenge blended well with a speed challenge for every target in a match. If it's too far one way or the other it doesn't make for a very well rounded event or a fun time. Long range should be a part of the sport but it alone should not be the deciding factor for matches, which if there is long range then it often contributes more time on the clock than anything else. Is this good or bad? I don't know.

Please say what you changed every time this is reposted! Such as: "I input the other multigun dates mentioned in the thread and removed the leftover placeholders from last year" JANUARY FEBRUARY February 27-28: 3 Gun Nation Regional @ Universal Shooting Academy in Florida MARCH March 19-20: 2015 Missouri 3-Gun Championship, Versailles, MO APRIL April 1-3: SMM3G 2016 http://www.smm3gun.com April 8-11: X-Treme Bullets Texas 3 Gun Championship, X-Treme Bullets Texas 3 Gun Championship Presented by Freedom Munition; Marble Falls, TX April 9-10- 3 Gun Nation Regional @ Brock's Gap Training Center in Alabama April 23-24: PRS Precision Shootout at Peacemaker in Glengary, WV MAY May 14-15: He-Man National 3-Gun Championship - NRA Whittington Center, Raton, NM May 14-15: 3 Gun Nation Regional @ Copperhead Creek Shooting Club in Texas May 29-31: NRA America’s Rifle Challenge Championship, Presented By Daniel Defense at Peacemaker in Glengary, WV JUNE June 5-7: MGM Ironman (O, L, HO, T), Parma, ID June 9-11: MGM Ironman (Tac-Scope), Parma, ID June 18-19: 3 Gun Nation Regional @ Clinton House, SC JULY July 16-17: DMR Championship (PRS Points Match & DMR Championship) at Peacemaker in Glengary, WV AUGUST August 7-8: Benelli Tactical Shotgun Match, Rockcastle Shooting Center, Park City, KY August 11-14: Rocky Mountain 3-Gun World Championship - NRA Whittington Center, Raton, NM August 27: Production Class PRS Points Match at Peacemaker in Glengary, WV SEPTEMBER September 10-11: 3 Gun Nation Regional @ Southern Utah Shooting Sports Park in UT September 15-17: NRA World Shooting Championship at Peacemaker in Glengary, WV OCTOBER October 3-9: MGM Ironman East 3Gun Championship at Peacemaker in Glengary, WV October 13-15: Doublestar Blue Ridge Mountain 3-Gun Championship, Park City, KY October 22-23: 3 Gun Nation NATIONALS @ Virginia International Raceway in VA NOVEMBER

Got my refund

Anyone have the 3GN announcements because I heard they were out but haven't seen them??

Open guns are known for "anything goes" right? I had some light strikes last year with my production Glock and Zev production legal trigger - so what are people using as Glock open gun triggers? How do you manage having a light as possible trigger for Open division while also avoiding light strikes?

By the way, this discussion is hilarious. Socialism Comrade Kelley Robin Hood All in one thread, what a gem!!

Well, no. Let's take that bay course of fire for example - Some pro sets the curve at 20.55 sec, then regular me comes along and shoots the same course in 41.10 sec. The pro gets 100% of the match points which would be 20.55 points (curve set by the leader), and I would get 50% which would be 10.275 points (half of their match points). All it is doing is weighting courses based on the high score instead of a subjective number, and at the end of the match the person with most points wins like stage points already does. If it was cumulative time then the pro would shoot 20.55 sec and that would be their score, mine would be 41.10 sec, and lowest score wins like time plus does now.

Forgot to report back about my long range experience with the 13.5 inch Armalite. I have a 200 yard zero, shooting Stillwood 69gr SMK at 2415 FPS and getting 1.5 inch groups at 100 yards. Whether it's me, the gun or ammo, I don't know but I couldn't get better than that. I then shot 500 yards and my hold of +4.3 MIL is dead on with the short barrel and slow velocity. I made consistent hits benched and prone but now looking to compare those ballistics to the 77gr Nexus ammo recommended by Tommy Thacker because Stillwood has changed their load since I bulk purchased through them earlier this year. However with a working solution and dope confirmed I don't WANT to change but would be happy to do that testing all over again someday early next year. Oh and shooting this at 3GN nationals was a dream because in the tactical bays this gun handles almost as well as an Open division IPSC pistol - short, light, fast, tuned for no recoil, etc. Now if only I was lighter and faster!

If the rifle shooting is only going to be 50-60 yards then everyone can just start using red dots and dump their $1-2k 6x scopes Irons divisions should see a bump up in participation hmmmm?

I like both methods but I see some issues with stage points because we use it - 1) penalties don't count equally from stage to stage 2) passive benefit to people who have meltdowns (gun or brain) 3) weighting stages with a point value is subjective Here's an idea on how to solve #3 and remove the subjectivity from weighting stages - If someone crushes a tactical bay course of fire in 20.55 seconds and sets the curve for a match, then they get 20.55 match points and everyone who shoots slower gets a % of their match points. Then on a natural terrain stage with long range, some pro shoots it in 66.75 sec and they'd get 66.75 match points, and everyone who shoots slower gets a % of their points. Then whoever has the most match points at the end of the match wins. Pretty damn simple as the leader sets the curve and it directly reflects the amount of shooting / moving / loading / etc, involved.

Well, this match was fun. Tulsa was fun too. Decent cigar bar downtown that should be designated the off range hangout judging by the amount of shooters I saw there.