silverphoenix

match has been moved to march; details tba then

distance is around 50-75 yards...unless someone snuck some steel core in, it had to be the tula that left these craters. May do some testing to see. I'll try to get some pictures when I have a chance.

Not sure where this is supposed to go topic wise, but I ran a practice for my group today and noticed that the tula a couple of my guys were using was pock marking the steel really bad. Big Silver Craters. I have used wolf, brown bear, etc and they do NOT do that. This tula damages the targets almost like M855... Do they have a higher percentage of steel in the copper/steel bimetal jacket? Anyone else notice this or have problems with it damaging targets? From here on out, we're having to ban Tula from our practices and matches...never liked the stuff anyways. If I ever shoot steel case, it will always be Wolf

Facebook Event: https://www.facebook.com/events/574267705999196/?ref=ts&fref=ts Event Page: http://a3g.tamu.edu/node/238 You can find our facebook event through this link: https://www.facebook.com/events/574267705999196/?ref=ts&fref=ts Aggie 3-Gunners is hosting a machine gun and suppressor shoot in order to celebrate the grand opening of our new training facility and to honor our generous sponsors. We will have two machine gun/suppressor stages, two 3-gun nation classifier stages sponsored by Dissident Arms that will be rotated periodically to provide a total of 4 classifier stages, one training bay where pistol and rifle classes will be held, and 8 "mini" 3-gun stages, each dedicated to one of our sponsors. Participants can also sit in on our Free AR15 build demonstration, where an AR15 will be built from the nuts and bolts up to a complete competition grade firearm. An in-depth description of each activity can be found at the bottom of this page. Low Light shooting on the Elzetta Design Stage will start at dusk. When: February 22nd 9AM to 7PM Where: Down Range Sporting Club 11744 Wrong Road, Bryan, Texas 77808 (979)446-1993 http://www.downrangesportingclub.com/ Cost: $15 General Admission + Stage Fees ($3 discount on admission for A3G members) Stage fees are $5-$15 including ammunition and firearms rental Or $2 per Stage if you bring your own guns and ammunition (excludes the two machine gun bays; you must use Freedom Munitions Ammunition in the machine guns and any other prop guns) Admission includes a free raffle ticket for the Grand Door Prize. Event: >10 Shooting Stations including 2 machine gun and suppressor bays >1 Tactical Pistol and Carbine Training Class Stage >2 2-in-1 3-Gun Nation Classifier Stages. Earn your ranking in a day! >You can shoot one or all stages. >AR15 Upper and Lower Building Demonstration in the Classroom (1PM-3PM). A Competition Grade AR15 will be assembled professionally from loose parts for the viewing pleasure of attendees. Each step will be explained, tips and tricks will be revealed, potential problems will be explained, parts quality and compatibility will be talked about, and questions may be asked throughout the entire process. Ammunition, hearing protection, eye protection, food and drinks can be bought onsite for Reasonable Fair Market Prices. Food: $2 per sausage wrap. $5 including a drink. Proceeds go towards A3G and towards upgrading our training facility. Stage Descriptions: Training Bay: Tactical Pistol and Carbine Class 3GN Classifier Stage 1/2 (Shotgun/pistol) (Free plus ammo) 3GN Classifier Stage 3/4 (Pistol/Rifle) (Free plus ammo) Shooting Station 1: AR15 Targets Suppressor and Machine Gun Stage Shooting Station 2: AR15 Targets Suppressor and Machine Gun Stage Shooting Station 3: Dissident Arms Saiga Shotgun and Rifle Stage Shooting Station 4: Comp Tac Pistol Stage Shooting Station 5: Freedom Munitions Pistol/Rifle Bay Shooting Station 6: CMC Triggers Rifle Bay Shooting Station 7: Ice Arms Rifle Bay Shooting Station 8: Lancer Weapon Systems Rifle/Shotgun Bay Shooting Station 9: Weapon Shield Shotgun Bay Shooting Station 10: Battle Comp/Elzetta Low Light Shotgun/Rifle Bay Shooting Stage 11: A3G Precision AR15 Rifle Bay Each shooting station will be scored and the fastest time for each stage will be posted on our website. There will be a second raffle, which you enter into for Free once per stage ticket bought. The more stages you shoot, the greater your chances of winning! Call 713-751-9239 for questions IF YOU BRING YOUR OWN AMMUNITION AND GUNS: These rules are for your safety and to prevent our sponsor's expensive targets from being torn up. You may bring your own ammunition, but you can Not use your own ammunition in our stage guns. Only Freedom Munitions Ammunition is allowed through any of our stage guns for liability reasons. You may bring your own ammunition, but you can Not use steel core ammunition. This includes surplus 5.56 62gr M855. It tears up the steel. All ammunition will be checked with a magnet. If the magnet attracts your bullets, you cannot use it on steel. You will be allowed to shoot the paper targets, but will be fined $25 for each steel core round used on a steel target. You may bring your own guns, but you can Not use any rifle caliber above .223/5.56 or pistol caliber above .45ACP on Steel. Any larger caliber is dangerous to use at the ranges we are shooting at and will tear up the steel. You will only be able to shoot paper with these larger calibers. You may bring your own shotgun ammunition, but you may use Lead Birdshot Only. Any shot larger than #6 will not be allowed. Slugs are not allowed. Steel shot is not allowed.

Mine is around 12 lbs. Granted I have a 20" bull barrel and a 19" handguard + a rifle length stock

I use the PWS FSC30/FSC556 in open; the rest of my group uses battlecomp 1.0's (I have different threading, so I can't use one unfortunately!). Nothing but compliments on the battlecomp 1.0's. For myself, I do love using the PWS and while it does look cool, the main reason I like it is because it controls muzzle rise very well and also reduces flash to near nothing in night shoots (if you do those at all). My rifle is heavy by the way--I think around 11-12 lbs, so my rifle doesn't have a lot of recoil to begin with, but these brakes work well and don't cost an arm and a leg. I found a couple new take-offs from Scars for $50 a pop. I'd try out a few comps and see what you like best in any case.

I have two saiga 12's and both of them ran reliably out of the box. Both of mine feed federal bulk birdshot, buckshot, and slugs very reliably. One has a magwell that I installed, polished bolt, autoplug, choke, etc and that one cost me around $1500 considering I've done most all of the work myself and including optics--that's my open gun. The other is stock with an autoplug. The problem is that people do not know how to properly tune them or try to run cheap winchester crap through them, then get mad that it's not functioning right (without realizing why) and pass on the bad rep, which is repeated by others. Or someone tries to add mid-barrel ports/brakes or to open the gas system up, messes up the reliability, and has to send it to someone to fix their mistakes (or the mistakes of another gunsmith). The trick is to keep it simple, get an autoplug so you can run both light and heavy loads, tune it properly, and not to run winchester. Besides the saiga 12, the VEPR 12 is $1k and already has an auto-regulating gas system--the ones I have seen run stock are very reliable. I have not seen any unmodified mk1919's in action.

We've been talking about limiting box fed shotguns to just 5 rounds per mag, as per standard factory mags. Plus the usual tac ops class restrictions. Would this be satisfactory in leveling the field?

Maybe I just have a different perspective on things, but I see a Huge difference between TC and O. In open, you Have to sink in a ton more money to be competitive. For far as optics, you can get a higher magnification scope and then put a red dot on the side. You can also use a bipod, which helps significantly. For pistol, you can mount a red dot and have all sorts of custom work done such as porting your barrel, compensators, higher capacity mags, etc. On shotgun, capacity is unlimited and you can have a red dot. Between the three extra optics, all the mag extensions, custom work, and extra parts, you're talking about a huge gap in expenditure between tac ops and open. Also , while I run open and intend to stay in it, I lead a group of students who cannot afford to run open and be competitive with the equipment they can afford. I feel wrong telling them that they cannot get a saiga 12/mk1919/ vepr 12 unless they want to spend thousands more to run open competitively. They should be able to buy better technology for the same price. Anyways, to me it's as if the shoe was on the other foot with rifle vs shotgun. If we started with tube fed rifles and then the mag fed rifle came along. Would it be fair to restrict ar15's to open class by nature just so lever actions/ bolt actions would not become obsolete? Technology evolves and as it does, maybe we should embrace it more.

Just curious what everyone thought about allowing a factory configuration saiga 12, MK1919 or vepr 12 in tac ops class? Since these shotguns cost around $600-$1000 respectively now, in situations outside of 3-gun competition, it would make sense to go with more modern technology that costs a little more if not the same as tube fed semi-autos. My question is: What does everyone think about allowing these into tac ops? The whole premise of "Open Class", to my understanding, is to separate those who have utilitarian firearms and limited resources from those who have tricked out race guns and who have deep pockets in order to make the playing field fair. Are people worried that if box fed shotguns are allowed in tac ops that tube fed shotguns will go the way of the bolt action and quickly take over competitions? How about if magazines were limited to perhaps 5 rounds to make the playing field more "fair"? I hate to see so many people driven away from box fed shotguns because they don't have the money to buy a second optic for their rifle, one for their pistol, and all the other jazz that open class requires. If people can buy better tech for the same price, I'd like to see them allowed to run with it without penalty. Just my humble opinion. Let me know what your thoughts are!

I contacted club timers, CED, and the makers of the pocket pro...the latter 2 were closed at 4 when I called. Club timers said the best they could do was their buy 4, get one free deal. We don't have $500 to spend though...

Our group is getting ready to start putting on our own 3-gun matches (a3g.tamu.edu). We're a student based group under Texas A&M University and don't receive any funds from the university; we also only charge $15 for our basic membership in order to make it affordable for students. So in other words, we don't have a lot of funds and have to save money where possible. I'm looking to either buy a couple of used, or a couple of cheap-but-decent shot timers for the group. Does anyone have suggestions on where to buy these? Or does anyone have a used shot timer they would like to sell?

still looking...

yeah, they don't have any right now

anyone???

anyone?

They're specifically modified for competition

I need some 12 round saiga 12 competition magazines to use with the Tac-47 magwell. Can anyone tell me where I can find these??? I'm going to the Surefire match on April 19th, so I need 2 of them by then.

That is incredibly disappointing... I don't know why they would do that....

I remember that Nordic Components had a tube extension for the Stoeger M2000, but I can't find it anywhere now...it's no longer listed on their website. Did they discontinue it or something?

Alaskapopo has it right. You do get what you pay for. The top companies are known for not only excellent quality control, but for using the proper materials and methods that meet or exceed military specs (which were created for a reason). You do not necessarily want "mil spec", but you Do want your parts to meet or exceed those minimum standards if you are concerned about reliability or durability. I personally build everything now, so I'm not one to buy "whole guns". I will say that I will Never, Ever own a BCG, upper, or complete rifle made by olympic, delton, dpms, bushmaster, or model 1 though. Just do your research and it will become clear. And 5,000 rounds is nothing by the way. With about 250 rounds per match 12x a year plus training, it goes by fast. The matches I shoot are 300-500 yards as well and with that distance and that round count, I (in my humble and personal opinion) would only trust BCM/Noveske/Spikes/LaRue/LMT/Colt as pre-built guns, or a frankungun with quality parts made by someone who is knowledgeable.

Nothing cheaper than .308 though. I want to stick with common calibers since I don't reload

definitely going with .308. No reason to shoot anything else in AR10 platform. I was mainly asking about barrel materials...

Steel silhouettes; I believe they are larue's. KNS pins are nice, but no they won't work with the Geissele triggers it seems. They work great with the one I have right now though

The DPMS bcg I had did have a loose gas key, which I locktited and torqued down before selling, but which would have caused "Bolt Action AR Syndrome" if it failed inside someone's gun, if they were lucky. That's why staking is important to me. I understand what you mean--I never really got into the whole "mil-spec" thing either since it's a minimum standard. Mil Spec can be exceeded i.e. I believe the PWS buffer tube is a major upgrade over a mil spec buffer tube and I think melonited CMV is superior to chrome lined CMV in many ways. I definitely think better QC and slowing production speed would lessen the need for MPI testing, but it's just one more step to make sure lemons don't escape the manufacturer. DPMS just does not have near the QC of a company like BCM, which is understandable. DPMS uses cheaper materials, less QC, and increases production speed to turn out a cheaper/economical product in order to sell more product--it makes sense from a business standpoint. The tooling marks and poor finish are just another part of the focus on mass production and low price over quality. I just prefer a company that focuses very strongly on only allowing quality products to reach the consumer and I'm willing to pay another $35 to ensure I get a quality product. I'm sure most DPMS BCG's function fine, and I know they have probably improved over the years, I just personally like peace of mind towards the reliability of my guns and I've seen too many bushmasters and DPMS's choke to have much faith in them.