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Also from TruGlo: (and no I don't work for them, just saw this sight when I was checking out their TFO sights) http://www.truglo.com/content/products/fir.../sure_sight.asp "SURE SIGHT Patented design. CNC machined steel construction. Same advantages of a notch and post sight. Triangular shape obscures less of the target. Easy alignment while eyes are focused on target. Fits standard holsters. Snag resistant design. Innovative sighting concept from TRUGLO! Superior shot tracking when engaging multiple targets, even when the shooter’s eyes are focused on the target." I purchased an SVI limited from JP Enterprises with the JP Doublring sights already on the gun. Of course, I couldn't get used to them. Changed to standard Dawson fiber optics. I suspect the TruGlo SureSight will not be wildly popular and be relegated to a mere novelty. But I love seeing all the innovative sight ideas...and their attempt to build a better mousetrap.

Has anyone seen or used these sights. Similar to the popular Dawson fiber optic but also has Tritium for night shooting. Here's the stats from Truglo website: Truglo site "TRITIUM FIBER OPTIC The ultimate handgun sight. Uses our patented T.F.O. technology. Unbelievable transition through all light conditions. Glows in the dark. Uses the best tritium available. CNC machined steel construction. Green front and rear. Concealed fiber cannot be seen by target. Fits standard holsters. Snag resistant design." I'm not really sure if these sights are applicable/beneficial in USPSA but it's an interesting product. Can you just use TruGlo's TFO inserts in place of Dawson's fiber optic insert? Of course, their is no TruGlo sight mount for SVI/STI.

Chandlersniper: mounting question- The Eotech 551 sight is taken apart but then how does he mount it the handgun? Is it he using a weaver mount or is tapping holes? Are they using it for USPSA type shooting? Good results? Thanks

Is the "1-Minute dot with a 65 minute circle" too small for practical use? From what I've read, the only mounting option for "handguns" is with Weaver mounts. How come there are not better/more mounting options? I hesitated using the Holosight in the past because of they were so big. Now there's the new smaller model. Older review of Holosight vs CMore: http://www.gun-tests.com/performance/aug97sights.html

How come no one uses the Eotech on their open guns? The only person I've noticed is Jerry Barnhart. But he has what looks like the older model which is bigger. I noticed that Eotech has a new smaller version which is supposed to be 2 times the battery life of previous models. The reason I ask is because the Military and Special Ops have ordered tons of these Eotechs. They must know something! Also, I have read that the Eotech holographic image is quicker to pick up then red dots. Eotech review Eotech home anotherLink Jerry Barnhart's open gun: BTW- how do you mount the Eotech on an SVI/STI? Jerry's mount involves the older bigger model. And it looks like it's discontinued.

BTW- this is a pic of my SVI Infinity .40 S&W for reference. Does anyone use their competition gun for home protection? Therefore wouldn't a Lasermax or CTC product be useful for most home defense settings ie- ie at night. BTW- This SVI is my only gun.

I know blasphemy! But I keep reading articles in Combat Handgun and other magazines about the positive attributes of laser projected sights and just want to try one out without having to purchase a Sig or some another 1911; to use either a Lasermax or Crimson Trace. I know you can't use this for USPSA but I just wanna EXPLORE and experiment with laser projection sights. I already have a Docter sight and love it. The Lasermax or Crimson Trace would not be used together with my Docter. So the question is, Can I use a Lasermax or Crimson Trace Lasergrips with my standard, non-compensated SVI Infinity .40 caliber? New Crimson Trace LG-401 for 1911 http://www.crimsontrace.com/401new/ http://www.lasersightsusa.com/newmodels.html Actually, I read that Crimson Trace's will not work with Double stacks... unless someone knows of a modification. What about the Lasermax in my Infinity?

I've had the Beamhit 700 target with the internal laser for about 6 months now. I also purchased a Western Arms SV airsoft gun. I played around with the airsoft for a while but put it aside because the plastic bullets were just not accurate enough. You never get a straight projectile because the bullets are not heavy enough and gas not strong enough. However, I am still using my Beamhit with internal laser module inside my SVI Inifinty limited. I love the laser pulse you get when you pull the trigger. The laser pulse is ALWAYS straight and accurate, IMO. Great for first shot, trigger control, and holster drawing drills! The faults with my Beamhit setup is you have to re-cock the hammer each time. Thus forget multiple shots. And no felt recoil. I saw that Beamhit has this Blazer system for law enforcement and military. I'm not in the military but have some friends in law enforcement. Does anyone know the cost? Looks extremely useful for home dry-firing...But it does look expensive though. From Beamhit website: http://www.beamhit.com/military/index.htm BEAMHIT™ BLAZER® "The ultimate in weapon function replication. The BLAZER is a series of blank firing training barrels, or upper receiver groups, that replace that of the actual weapon. The resulting training replicator maintains the actual trigger and butt stocks, precisely replicates the sights, grips, and other weapon system components replaced, and fires special zero pollution theatrical blank cartridges that are cleared for indoor use without hearing protection. Each BLAZER barrel is totally blocked, cannot chamber a live round or service blank and fits any of the BEAMHIT™ lasers. The system delivers extremely realistic training, providing the felt recoil, sound, and smell of the actual. Spent cartridges are ejected, tactical magazine reloading can be practiced, and weapons can be fired in full auto to develop burst fire skills."

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I have the Peltor Alert. It has a NRR 25db. Paid $165. Also it has a built in AM/FM radio. I LOVE this feature. I can listen to the radio while at the range or matches. But I use it only as low volume background music so I can clearly hear friends or RO's talking. The AM/FM is good when your practicing alone to prevent boredom. Between stages, it keeps me relaxed and thinking LESS before my turn to shoot. And I don't use the radio when I'm actually shooting a stage. http://www.websoft-solutions.net/SearchResults.asp?Cat=210

caspian28r: Do you know how he got burned? What was actually wrong? I was planning to generate a bill of sale with a clause with something to the effect- Gun is guaranteed to be in working condition consistent with a gun which has approx. 1200 rounds fired through it.... I'm really not sure what to put in the clause. Seller would have to agree to this clause before I bought it. And I'm not expecting a new gun. Of course, I could still get still burned somehow even with a clause. I spoke to seller on the phone. He sounded very genuine and was pleasant to speak with, FWIW. Thanks for the replies. It's definitetly making me think twice. In addition, I hear Open guns can be extremely tempermental beasts. I've never owned one, so wouldn't know. Warpspeed: good idea with local gunsmith. Will look into it.

I've been looking at a Limcat Phantera for sale. It's used with 1200 rounds thru it. Seller would like $2000 for it, nothing less. More info: Limcat 38 supercomp phantera. accurailed, blue SV painted grip, aftec extractor, black cmore, dawson magwell, hard chromed. comes with one Dawson tuned STI mag. I can't fire or handle it because seller lives in another state. Here's some pics: What do you guys think, is it a good deal? Seems like a good deal to me. I'm still deciding. I'm not sure if I'm ready to enter the dark side ie- get into Open guns. Still in limited now. Do you quickly get used to the harshness and loudness of the compensater's "flash, fireball"? So $2000 for this used Phantera or spending $300-500 more for a NEW open gun from Shooters Connection or some other places?

I found this on Ebay : Docter with adapter mount for $324. He's got 20 available so it's good if you're having a hard time finding one. Not the best prices but OK. BTW- I don't know the seller so... http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...3675543941&rd=1

Great discussion on mounting Docs: These are airsoft guys discussing it, but similar principles apply. http://www.clgunclub.com/tips/upload/20020517.htm "DocterSight Target acquisition by optics is definitely a huge competitive advantage, especially in airsoft shooting events like IPSC, IDPA, or Steel Challenge that requires both speed and accuracy. In search of the latest technology of pistol optics, you may have already known about the Docter Reflex Red Dot sight, a successor to the popular, but problematic Tasco Optima. The Docter is more durable and can better withstand recoil due to its strong metal frame. Its new design of screw sets also eliminates the risk of "shock loose" incurred by recoil, as seen in the Optima. Furthermore, the quality glass lens with special formulated Docter coating can prevent scratches and abrades while increasing red dot visibility. Nonetheless, while reading various online forum such as in AirsoftOhio.com, I learned that many of you had asked about what else this small, lightweight Docter sight will help in BB IPSC shooting, and well as the concerns of mounting and MOA selections. In this article I will be addressing these concerns, as well as sharing some of my experiences in using these new breed of sights. First of all, in regards to visibility prominent brightness of red dot is very important in outdoor daytime shooting. Though the visibility differential has little effect in the indoor shooting ranges with moderate lighting, I did had an experience that I could not find my Optima's red dot in a BB IPSC match under bright sunshine. Other C-More shooters were able to achieve higher score and beat those who used Optima. I am certain that if the DocterSight was used instead, I would be able to pick up the dot. Secondly, mounting has always been a concern for many shooters. For example, as found under various online forums, I absolutely agree with DumboRAT (a well respected gas gun guru in USA)'s comment that "melt-into" optics is ideal for IPSC as it allows co-sighting of the slide for faster dot and sight-picture acquisition (skip the mounting issue which I will go through afterward). Over 50% of the shooters in HK joined both Modified Class (without optics) and Open class in the same BB IPSC match. They usually prepare 2 separate GBB pistols for each class, one has optics and the other does not. In such case, they would find melted-in Docter sights extremely helpful because they can maintain the same eye level in both class - where the eye level for target acquisition through DocterSight (in Open Class) is equal to the level of their Modified Class gun's iron sights. The shooter can thus simply maintain the same posture and the same eye level whether he or she was using the DocterSight or slide iron sights. There is also no need to adjust arm position every time in different classes in order to acquire the target. This is particularly important in training and practicing because you do not need to distinguish the different sight heights and can easily pick up a single arm position for fast aiming no matter your pistol is Open or Limited Class. Conversely, tubular red dot sight such as C-More does not have such advantage. Since it is held by a scope mount where the red dot is always an inch higher that the slide sight, you have to lower your arm position to make the sight-picture reach your eye level. Therefore your speed will be affected as you may require more time to place the red dot to the target. Also, unlike the real steels, tubular red dot sight is too heavy to attach on GBB pistol. The weight from the tubular sight itself and the scope mount may be adverse to the weight balance of the gun if it is not atop the correct position. This can lead to lost in accuracy when double tapping, as well as becoming an obstacle in single-hand or weak-hand shooting requirements during BB IPSC match. Now, come to the Docter sight mounting issue. Thanks to DumboRAT, he had made a very good explanation on why this kind of optics cannot be "melted into" the slide just like what the real steel can do. Let me cite what he said: "looking at the WA GBB's rear blowback assembly, you'll quickly see that such "melts" will NOT be possible -- first as the rear blowback assembly is directly under that area, and requires the security of the mounting screws on the slide, atop its own assembly, for proper mounting, as well as the fact that there just is NOT sufficient vertical "space" to melt in the FirePoint, DocterSight, or the Optima." I want to reinforce my view that putting DocterSight atop the slide of GBB pistol is still the best and fastest way for target acquisition. However, the existing real steel BoMar-cut mount cannot be used in gas pistol due to differences in measurement, and most importantly the lack of 2 screws to lock the floating nozzle in gas pistol. Examining WA design BoMar sight, you will find 2 screws under the cover where they deadlock the floating nozzle. Some other mounting methods seem viable such as WA Glock using under-barrel accessory attachment point as their main mounting points. But once you consider the fitment of holsters (or the lack thereof), you will find this kind of mounting infeasible. Therefore, going to an experience gunsmith for either a fixed-mount or off-slide mount-rail of your optics is inevitable in the meantime unless you only concentrate on Limited Class. Next lets consider the choice of MOA, as DocterSight has 2 models available - 3.5MOA & 7MOA. Generally speaking, larger dot (MOA) is easier to pick up and is suitable for fast, close range target acquisition. Smaller MOA will provide additional accuracy for long-range shots, albeit sometimes in the expense of speed. Nonetheless, in BB IPSC match, because the paper or steel targets are usually at a distance of only 4-7 meters from the shooting area, optics with different MOA does not make a great distinction in target acquisition. But for beginners a big MOA is still preferred because it is easier to catch the red dot. The less strain you put on your eyes (i.e. large, easy to catch red dot) the higher possibility of an accurate hit. However, the smaller MOA does have its advantages, especially after you've got used to it. For example, in some complex course designs, the target may tuck behind a "no-shoot" or barrier, leaving you a small head-box to hit. In such case, big MOA will not work well because your intended point of impact may be totally obscured by the red dot. This in turns slow down your speed as well as impairing your accuracy, causing you to miss the target. Moreover, in a big field course, it is usually not necessary to shoot the targets in sequence. A skillful shooter may find additional shooting location for the same target as it could be seen from more than one port. In order to speed up the shooting time, he may choose to engage a visible target before he moves into the closer, "standard" shooting zone. In these situations, the shooter's engagement distance could be up to 10 meters and a small MOA will help him a lot because it allows precision shooting at longer distances. It has been my experience about how to "game" and win a course. Finally, if you have any comment on optics or optics mounting, please feel free to leave your message in our BBS so we could have some further discussions." (Wrote by CL and thanks for Wallace's proof-reading)

Some pics of Docs mounted: cheapest price I've seen on the web= $245 http://www.tacticalshop.com/index.asp?Page...PROD&ProdID=323 this looks like a Docter with the adapter mount ie- rides higher:

Review from Docter website: http://www.docteropticsusa.com/press/fmgaward.html "Battle Of The Micros J-Point vs. Docter By Tim Bentley, TY-24632 After weighing all the options for a sight on my new Open gun, a ported Glock long slide in 9mm major, I decided on a slide-mounted microelectronic reflex red-dot sight system. That’s a lot of verbiage for such a small product, but in this case good things really do come in small packages. With a good barrel-to-slide lock up but mediocre slide-to-frame fit, this type of sight is particularly appropriate for the Glock. Many 1911 shooters have adorned their tight-slided race guns with one of these little technical marvels, and love them, but with so many frame-mounted choices to work with, the slide-rider is just one of many choices. With the advent of 9mm major, however, Glock jockeys have started picking up this innovative sight. One huge selling point for this type of sight is that if a person also shoots an iron-sighted gun, the sight can be machined down into the slide, putting the dot about in the same location as your front sight, thus making the transition from Open to whatever almost seamless. But which one to use? The J-Point or the Docter? Is the J-Point really a Tasco in new JP clothes? How is the Docter different? Is it worth the money? I resolved to get one of each, and started running some tests. Shooting the Slide-Riders If you have never shot a gun with a slide-mounted sight, you may think that trying to watch a dot that is rushing towards your face at about 500 feet per second could be unnerving. In actuality you don’t notice the horizontal movement. It’s pretty much like shooting a frame-mounted dot, except it’s lower, which I really like, with a little less field of view, which I don’t. Both sights automatically adjust to ambient light conditions. There are no knobs to turn, and you can’t "forget to turn it on." So long as you remember to pull the cover off, the automatic adjustment mechanism takes care of the rest. The maximum intensity for the both sights is about equal and is strong enough to let you pick up the dot in bright sunlight, yet both will quickly (and automatically) step down to let you shoot in dim light without having to work with a dot that looks like a flaming basketball. Once I was shooting a match in Libby, Mont., on a stage that was a simulated crack house. It was really dark in that house–so dark that one shooter had his early-model Optima put itself to sleep, which is what both sights do when you put the cover on. Thankfully for both the J-Point and the Docter, if the environment is bright enough to identify the target, you have a dot. For my tests, I put about a thousand rounds of Major 9 through the same gun using each sight, and experienced no problems-no flickering, no cutting out. Both sights performed flawlessly. There were differences, but keep in mind that this comparison is not exactly apples to apples. Among various smaller differences, the Docter sight costs more than half again as much as the J-Point. The J-Point As I soon learned, the J-Point really is the last generation Tasco Optima 2000 (which was the Fire Point before that) reborn under the JP Logo with a better lens, brighter module, and improved reliability. As one might expect, all Tasco and Fire Point mounts will work with the J-Point. Like its parents, the frame of the J-Point is made from polymer, with helps save weight. The J-Point’s acrylic lens is lighter than glass, but more prone to starbursts; distortion around the periphery, and to scratching if not cared for properly. When using the extreme edges of the J-Point lens, I experienced some vertical distortion when the dot was hugging the sides, and some horizontal distortion when the dot was hugging the top. (I think the adhesive, which holds the lens in, causes this.) The dot was still well defined enough to take a shot, and as a person becomes more familiar with this sight on their gun I don’t think they will find their dot hugging the extreme edge of the lens very often. Another cool thing about the J-Point–it has a notch at the rear like a rear sight. It would be a great backup if your dot went out or you just couldn’t find it. The Docter The Docter sight has a rich history of fine German optics, and the lens is the most obvious difference. It’s slightly wider, very slightly taller, and consists of two firmly connected glass lenses with the applied reflective coating on the inside surface to protect against scratching. The dot is sharper and isn’t plagued with any of the problems that are somewhat inherent in the softer lens material on the J-Point. The Docter’s housing is made of aluminum and is hard anodized (which adds to the Docter’s weight). There are lock screws for the windage and elevation adjustments, and (a neat feature) a magnet sucks the battery into place to keep it from losing contact during recoil. The Docter sight is slightly longer than the J-Point, and needs a mount specifically for that sight. Personally, I’ve opted to hold on to the Docter for reasons of lens quality, but both sights did an excellent job on my pistol. For better reference, I’ve included a table to more easily compare some of the pertinent information regarding these two fine products. If you are in the market for one of these sights I hope I have presented the information necessary to facilitate your decision. In conversations with fellow shooters there seems to be a lot of interest and skepticism surrounding 9mm major. Anybody familiar with the basics of reloading should be able to work up a safe 9mm major load, especially with the 165-power factor. I have loaded 9mm to major with 124, 135, and 145 gain bullets from Laser Cast; using Vihta Vuori 3N37 and CCI Small pistol primers. My primers show minor flow at the striker hole, are still rounded at the edge, and my brass, which in many times fired, almost always drops right into a Dillon Case gauge. What Gun Are You Using? My gun started out as a model 24 long slide .40 S&W. I converted it to 9mm, had the barrel ported to my specs, and did the entire regular trigger bar, connector, and striker safety polishing. I also tightened the slide, ground down the sides of the striker tang, and polished the face. I put in a 4-pound Wolff striker spring, and a Wolff 12-pound recoil spring; furthermore, I installed set screws in the trigger housing in front of and behind the trigger cruciform to reduce take-p and over travel respectively. The gun weighed about 29 ounces at this point, with the sight, so I decided to add some weight to help the porting tame the recoil from the major load. I installed a 1 3/4-ounce tungsten guide rod and 5 1/2-ounce competition mag well, both from T.H.E. Accessories. These made a big difference. I also installed T.H.E.’s mag release button. It extends back about 1/4-inch, and for me it eliminates shifting my hand position during a mag change. I have Taylor Freelance magazine base pads on all my competition mags. The 170’s hold 29 rounds, and the 140’s hold 23. Ultimately I want to get the slide lightened, get the sight melted in, and maybe add a little chrome; then go racing."

short_round: you can't tease me like that. Saying Johnny built your guns and not showing me some pics. How about posting some pics. BTW- which Limcat models do you own?

BTW- this is a pic of my current SVI .40 limited. PS- I know I could get new, complete Bedell Shorty from shootersconnection for $2500. But I've always wanted a Limcat. Custom Shorty Open Gun by Bedel Does $2500 include the Cmore? http://shootersconnection.com/store/produc...products_id=398

I have a SVI Infinity .40 caliber gun. I emailed Johnny Lim of Limcat about converting it into an open gun. Yes, I've read on this forum that it is not cost effective to do this. Johnny, had a great recommendation. He recommended that I just build a new upper in 38 Super. This way I'll essentially have two guns with the 2 uppers: limited 40 and open 38 super. This is what he emailed me: "the cost of the new Open top end is $2000.00 with your Docter scope supplied to me..new top end Include with the price is..new Slide, new Shuemann Hybrid barrel, Limcat tamer Comp, Guide rod with reverse plug, 10Lbs Spring, Aftec Extractor, Limcat Long Fifring pin, Limcat Firing pin stop, Hard chrome finish..new top end fitted to your existing frame, front and rear serrations.flat top with racing stripes, installation of compensator, install your docter sight, and test fire for reliability..take your time and thin about this..but I think its the best way to go..because I think if I turn your 40S&W into Open gun I know you will not be happy and you will end up spending more money..not because of its reliability but because of its disadvantage when competing against those who shoots with 38 super and maybe someday you might want to go back and shoot limited..But then again I will do what you ask its your gun I just give you something to think about before you do something.Please do get back with me.." I really like his idea. Yes it is fairly expensive for this new upper- $2000. But a whole new Limcat open racegun is $3600. I've wanted a Limcat racegun for over 10 years because aesthetically they are the best, IMO. What do you guys think about this idea. Here are 2 pics of his open guns. I'm not sure which one my upper will look like. I can't find a pic of the Limcat Tamer Comp he is referring to above.

Wakal: you have 3 Avenger uppers? If so how does it shoot? How does the mechanism work without the whole slide moving back? It seems like it would be easier to maintain sights if the whole slide doesn't move... Interesting upper, but needs a little more work in the aesthetics department. ie- refer to work done by SVI. Or they should've gotten Johnny Lim of Limcat to help with the design! Unrelated but check out this Limcat noncompensated upper... BTW- has this Avenger type mechanism been done before?

BTW- I'm not associated with this product. I just think it's an interesting product. Personally, I think it may turn out to be vaporware. Scheduled for release "August 2004." That will be seen.... I agree regarding the sights, they talk about racegun all over the ad. They should have "racegun" compenents.

Has anyone seen this upper for 1911. It's definitely an interesting item. Not sure about performance and all the claims... http://www.getgrip.com/main/whatsnew/avenger.html http://www.m1911.org/hogueavenger.htm "The Avenger™ system - Fixed barrel upper for 1911 style frames The Avenger system provides a complete replacement for the upper slide and barrel on 1911 style frames. Initially available in .45 and 9mm the Avenger features a fixed barrel for the ultimate in accuracy, instantly converting a stock 1911 style receiver into a match ready race gun. And who doesn't have a 1911 around? " Because the Avenger kit goes on an existing serialized frame it is not itself a "firearm" and can be shipped legally through the mail without an FFL. At $849.95 the Avenger allows a shooter to economically convert any existing 1911 style frame to a match ready race gun. The Avenger is tentatively scheduled to begin shipping by August 2004 and will be shipped on a first ordered first shipped basis."