bajadudes

I would like to see a picture of this...LOL

Update on my previous post up-thread. It was an issue with my process. Since I can't find affordable new brass in any quantity I only use mixed HS. The way I had my 9mm crimp set I was for the most part always ending up with a round that had no crimp, that's the way I like to set it, no crimp, case tension is the only thing that should be holding the bullet firmly in place. However, with the ever so slight variances of mixed HS, some rounds were coming through that did have a very small crimp, like on the order of .377. Enough to cause the light leading I was seeing. I backed off the crimp die a bit and now no rounds are coming through at less than .379 with most falling between .379 and .380. This last batch after 200 rounds went much better. They continue to gauge beautifully and shoot very accurately. I have been loading them at 1.118 +/- .004 with 4.0 grains of WC 231. They reliably make 129 - 130 PF out of a Beretta 92FS @ 10 ft from the chrono. I purchased 10,000 and am in the process of loading them all up. Should be done tonight. I will be offering a box of 250 for about $57.50 in my vendor forum in a day or two. My apologies to Nathan for my hard headed insistence that there was no crimping. I really like these bullets and hope they work out well for all of us.

Remove the white primer station locator tab, Slide the primer shuttle cock lever arm up the blast shield tube as noted above. Cut a business card or index card at just about the width of the shuttle cock X long ways. Slide the card along the top of the shuttle cock until it goes under the primer tube and out the other end towards the index plate, you may have to jiggle the shuttle cock a little to get it under the tube. Fold up both ends of the card to make a sort of cradle. Undo the two hex screws holding the primer tube on the body of the 1050. Grasping both ends of the card with the bottom of the assembly lift it up carefully. Take this moment to run a long pipe cleaner through the tube to clean it up.

Putting an ever so slight beveled edge of about 60 degrees on the end of the decapping pin then highly polishing the end along with the 1st 1/4" or so with red jewelers rouge will keep that from ever happening again.

Never to paypal. They held up payment on a 5k brass and bullet order on me for almost 90 days. I hate them with a passion and will do everything in my power to avoid them.

Thanks for the data...nothing is in vain. I encourage you to cross post it at www.berettaforum.net. Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to you.

I am doing a big run of MG 124 and 115s right now but as soon as I order and get some in I will try again and see if there is something in my process that is affecting the coating. I didn't pull any but will next time I load some. I did see absolutely no sign of shaving or scraping at the seating die. The powder drop funnel is a Mr Bullet Feeder funnel not a Dillion. The bullet feeder is a MBF also. With the bullet sitting in the bell I can see an ever so slight gap all the way around the bullet so I know it's not to tight. I haven't cleaned that barrel yet, I will do it over the weekend. Maybe what I am seeing in there is not lead, maybe it's just dirty powder residue. It sure does look like lead striations. On a side note it would be nice if there were no lube groove and instead more bearing surface.

I don't know. I know that I was very careful to expand the bell at the powder drop more than I normally do for a jacketed round and I specifically looked for any shaving after the seating station. As you can see from the photo, I do not crimp the round at all, I just remove the bell and that's it. Perhaps it's the powder or the fact that you are driving a 147 grain and it's going slower with less stress than a 124. I mean I did like them far more than any other moly coated version I have loaded over the years. Like I said I want to try the 147's Do you know what speed you are getting? Are you positive you are at least making minor with them? The speed difference is significant, to make 130 PF with the 147 you only have to drive them to about 885 fps vs 1030 fps with the 125's. That is going to stress the coating more.

As mentioned above, today I took the opportunity to shoot 190 of these. I shot them through a Beretta 92FS with a just cleaned barrel. They were all 9mm 125 grain Round Nose With 4.0grains of WC 231, Mixed headstamp used brass, Winchester SPP, OAL of 1.120 +/- .004. Average velocity was 1033.9 fps. with 20 randomly selected rounds through the crono at 10 ft. for a PF of 129.23 With 4.2 grains of WC 231, Mixed headstamp used brass, Winchester SPP, OAL of 1.120 +/- .004. Average velocity was 1069.2 fps. with 20 randomly selected rounds through the crono at 10 ft. for a PF of 133.6 They did shoot nice with perhaps just a bit more smoke than a jacketed round. The smoke did seem to get worst towards the end of the test. Here is my target at 7 yards with 100 rounds thru it, accuracy is certainly there. This was with the 4.0 grains of 231. the grouping seemed to open up a tad with the 4.2. 10 of the rounds in this picture were the 4.2g and they are mostly the outlyers.. The figure is 1 inch ear to ear. Leading did appear and while at first it was minimal, towards the end of the test there was a definite beginning build up. This picture is of the final look inside the barrel after about 190 rounds. No blue gunk however. Here is a picture of the loaded round with an OAL of 1.120 For the Nerdy Data driven types here is the full data set 125g blue bullet data set.pdf I liked the results of the test even though it seemed that leading started to begin getting worst towards the end of the test. In all honesty for a lead bullet with a polymer coating being driven to 1000 + fps they performed remarkably well. I suspect that as the barrel begins to lead up, especially near the throat, that the polymer begins to get stripped sooner thereby exposing more of the lead to the hot gases of combustion. The more you shoot the worst it will probably get. For a regular range session or match of 250 or so rounds it should be a non issue. However if you are the type of person that does not like cleaning their gun after a 250 round session then your barrel and accuracy is going to suffer with each subsequent trip. I also like that it's not a messy coating, it does not rub off on your hands and you can't really write with it like a crayon as you can with some coated bullets. I have seen Chinese copper plated bullets that you can literally scrape off the plating with a light pass of your fingernail. This coating appears durable and clean to handle. I have to try the 147's next since I can get the same PF at lower speeds and the leading should be minimized to some degree with the slower speeds.. As a low cost alternative for an economy line I think I am going to invest in some and try to market it.

So I got a sample pack of these in my never ending quest to ake an affordable, accurate, quality round for target and competition. I loaded up 180 of them 90 - 125 grain bullets with 4.0grains of WC231and an OAL of 1.120 +/- .004 90 of the same with 4.2 grains of WC 231. Tomorrow, using a just cleaned XD 20 each will go thru the chrono. The rest downrange at targets. I will report back when done. I shot 8 of them just for the hell of it thru an already very dirty 90 DashTwo Beretta just to see and at an average speed of 1071.25 fps that gave me a PF of 133+ nice feel and minimal smoke to normal. If these work out I will be able to offer a nice low budget 9mm minor competition ammo for a little over $12 a box of 50.

It's not WC 231.......

When I was about 17...a long time ago. I borrowed my parents car without telling them. I went to the Cross County Shopping center in Yonkers NY, I'll never forget it. I had just indulged with a friend and was in a slightly altered state. When I got out, I closed the door on my thumb just behind the knuckle. It was stuck in there and to my horror the door was locked with the keys in the ignition. I struggled for a few min before I began pleading with a lady to help.. 10 min later the Fire Dept arrived and got me unstuck. Ya know I still regularly either lose my keys or lock them in the car The one good thing that has come of the habit is that I am really good at breaking into them by now, and I have spare keys everywhere.

WOW......That is beautiful. Thanks for sharing that link.

Well, I am not a hoarder of loading equipment, I definitely use just about everything I have and since I run a small ammo manufacturing company it's a lot. However, I cannot resist hording pyrotechnic tooling, supplies and chemicals. I have all sorts of rocket tooling to make up to 10 pounders, solid maple case rollers to make up to 8" shells, sifting screens from 10 to 100 mesh size, all sorts of rammers up to 2" to make fountains and such. I can't pass up good solid tubes, plugs, cardboard disks or endcaps of any type. Exotic chemicals I am likely never going to use like lampblack and nitrocellulose laquer.... but ya never know so I buy it just in case.. Just about every oxidizer and fuel know to man including aluminum, steel and titanium in assorted mesh sizes or stamped flakes. It's a bad addiction...really bad.

I think my ammo is better than those and costs about the same.

Get a chrono, it's your best friend and a great help in developing a load...let me say it again. make sure you have a chrono and that you actually use it. Next, if you are new to this, go to the powder manufacturers website and start with their lowest recommended load. Don't worry if it's not the exact same bullet. look at the weight then if it's jacketed or not. Pick the lowest starting point and keep a healthy respect for the max load. Your 9mm OAL is slightly longer than standard which is good because it gives you more of a safety margin as you approach the top end or maybe even decide to go over a hair Then use your chrono to work up and develop your load. As you increase your load, velocity will/should go up. it's when you notice that increased loading is having a lesser or even no rise in velocity that you are in dangerous territory. Again, the chrono is your friend and keep a healthy respect for the manufacturers stated max load. Some reloaders and shooters do go over max, sometimes by a lot but they got there slowly and with longer OAL's with a lot of trial and error but that's part of the fun isn't it? Power pistol is nice but it makes one hell of a fireball which can be distracting...however some people don't mind or even like it. Personally for me, it's fun to shoot outside around dusk just for fun. In late afternoons at a match it can be blinding. The 231 you have would actually work fine in both the 9 and 45. Sticking with one powder when learning also makes it less likely to make a powder error. With the 231 For the 115 try 4.6g, make 10 like that then go up in .2 increments making 10 of each to try. 5.0 to 5.1 is probably where you will end up For the 124 do the same, you will probably settle around 4.9. I wouldn't go much higher. For the 147 start around 3.4 and you will probably settle around 3.8 again I would not go much higher For the 45 230g start around 5.4 and you will probably settle around 5.6 - 5.7 I would not go much higher. This is just my two cents.

Has anyone really chronoed that and verified that in a 30 shot string the spread would only be 15fps? I am skeptical.

Not everyone has the time, inclination, space or desire to reload. Then it becomes a matter of value in terms of price point vs your invested time/equpment and what sets quality match grade ammo apart from WWB type. Not everyones time is worth the same. I load and sell ammo to one of the top shooters in the world simply because he does not want to be bothered with the minutia of reloading, especialy in todays climate where you can waste a lot of time and energy just chasing down components. If you can find quality ammo at the right price and you don't want to reload for whatever reason then yes it's worth it. So the question really is what makes ammo "match grade ammo" and at what price is it worth it?

WC 231 or H-38 are identical and good. 5.7 grains under a MG 230 FMJ is what I like.

Use www.gunbot.net. Keep the window open in your browser and check often. If you use firefox or mozilla as a browser download the free app called update scanner. You go to a page you want to scan and then set it to check every 15 min and alert you if there is any change. Don't set it for more often than that or it may look like a spam attack and you may get yourself blocked. In the current climate all you can do is keep checking.

Shoot them or pull them. Too much personal liability to give them to someone else and wish them luck.

My experience has always been that 231 is very versatile and stable. Never really experienced much seasonal variation.

Outside it's 22 deg. warehouse is unheated. loaded a mag with 15 rounds that are stored in said warehouse and put it in the freezer for 15 min. for extra cold test. same 4.0 grain 147 spec as above with WC231 which gave me 893 fps out of a Beretta 92fs @ 10' from the chrono. PF=131.29 in 80 to 90 degree weather. This time in the cold avg was 880.6 fps for a PF of 129.4 Happy Thanksgiving to all.

Didn't get a chance to chrono last night sorry. Hopefully I will be able to try tonight and report back.

I load 4.0g under a 147 MG JHP @ an OAL of 1.120 +/- .004 and get about 893 fps out of a Beretta 92fs @ 10' from the chrono. PF=131.29 @3.9 grains it was 863.5 fps @ 4.1 grains it was 924.35 fps Mixed HS brass CCI SP primers. That was this summer @ approx 80 - 90 degrees, I'll try it again tonight in a cold warehouse ( about 40 deg.) and see what happens. Sorry, I have no Zero bullet data to offer.