otis_bartleh

Great idea, I may not get much for em, but I'll feel better about that than throwing them away! So... They are assorted headstamps, WIN, WIN NT, NATO, SPEER, PMC, R-P, FC, BLAZER, GFL, etc. MOST were fired out of a Glock, can tell from the firing pin mark, but there were some others in there with the same mark. The partial "ring" I am seeing is almost indistinguishable in size, I can barely get the mic to register a difference on it vs right in front of it, barely the small "5" after the thousanth of an inch. They were about .384-.384(5) at the base, and all still fit in a chamber drop with no problem. I can barely even feel it with my fingernail. Honestly, I think most these are fine, but think I'll just recycle them anyway. This is the can for the questionables, so as soon as I saw the "ring", they went in this bucket for further inspection later. On further inspection of some last night, most looked good, but I did find a few that were showing signs of having been hot loads, so those were chucked. As there wasn't an overwhelming majority immediately saying "yup, those are fine" to the ones in the pics I posted, that was pretty much my answer right there, since I was already on the fence about them. I care much more about safety than saving some brass. It makes me nervous for some when I see posts from people saying they only inspect by rattling shells checking for splits and keep on loading till it splits, I could never be that care-free reloading ammunition! Thanks again to everyone for the input...

This partial ring isn't as pronounced as the "Glock Bulge" pics I've seen, and the "bulge" appears to be different than what I am seeing on these cases in question. I thought that was a .40 issue more-so than 9mm? Too add, the brass that only I have fired, through a stock Glock barrel, does not have this little partial ring or a bulge either. Strange? I'll have to do more checking on that I guess. I do like to understand all aspects of what I do. But yeah, plan tonight is to check headstamps and run some through the sizing die to see what they look like after, and will report back. Again, thank you guys for the assistance and quick responses. This is a great community that has been of a huge reference for me, even though I haven't posted much.

I absolutely agree with that, any case that worries me gets tossed right away. But that's also the reason for the post, I'm not worried about these, but they didn't pass my "perfect" test, so I put them aside for a rainy day to see if I should be worried... Since I temporarily ran out of clean "perfect" cases, I figure today is that day. haha Right on, yeah, I'll check headstamps tonight when I get home... Oh, forgot, these cases don't have that mark all the way around the case either, just about 1/4 to not even 1/2 way around...

Honestly not sure what they were fired from, a lot of my brass was from the public range shooters. I saved a lot of brass before I started reloading, but once I did start, I took all brass people were willing to give up... Figured I'd take it and inspect it at home

It's probably assorted brass, multiple headstamps, I'll confirm and update when I get home as to that and the ledge diameter, I haven't checked that.

Cool, I'll run them through the sizer tonight. I'm checking all these with a pick ('paperclip test'), and all I was checking last night had no ledge on the inside, just the outer. So if they run through the sizer and still have this mark on the bottom, would you still load them? The mark there is so minute on some of them you can barely see it, but this isn't something I want to walk the fine line on, I prefer safety.

I have a whole bunch of cases that I found have a 'ledge' around the base of the case after cleaning, and I have not been using them, just putting them aside. They do pass the 'paper clip' test on the inside of the case, but wasn't sure if they're ok or not... That coffee can is about 1/2 to 3/4 full at this point, so it's time I do something with it. Range brass... They are tumbled, but I have not sized/deprimed them yet. I hope this isn't a stupid question, but definitely don't want case head separation, and try to be as careful / picky as I can be. I also don't want to throw away pounds of brass if it's good. I reload for a G19 and G17... Thanks in advance.

I feel for ya man, keep your family in your thoughts and share stories of loved ones with loved ones. I'm sure he was a great man. You'll pull through this tough time. Our thoughts are with you...

Well, I got some Precision Delta's in, and they all measured up right. Loaded some up and went to the range, much better! Now to start my entire process over, but with good bullets... Thanks for all the advice, looks like I won't be buying any more X-treme's...

I'm about to place an order Monday, Precision Delta's seem to be a good price and are listed as .355 on their site. What do you guys think about these, and have any suggestions on a good place to buy Zero's, and are they better than PD's, and why, or is that more a per gun thing?

Thanks for the bullet info, since I'm about to place an order, it's a perfect time to change and try a different bullet. Talking with one of the shooters at my range, he gave me a couple lead bullets to push through the barrel to get the land markings on the bullet, and by measuring the marks, I'd be able to tell the exact size of my barrel and better tell if it might like a slightly larger bullet. Makes sense to me, just haven't had time to try that in the past few days... Anyone tried this method? Right, I've been mainly loading hotter recently since I had similar results loading lighter, and the powder is burning cleaner now than it was before... But I have made improvements to my reloading process and am more fluid on the press... I am going to start a new load workup since I'll be using fmj's instead of plated, and am going to start low. I, like you mentioned, do always use a chrono first, then group, as I like to keep the grouping and chrono'ing a separate stage. I'm getting to be best friends with the clubs chrono!

Cool thanks, yeah, my goal on adjusting the crimper was to just get the flare out, as that is mostly what I have read... And hey, I love my Glock! It used to shoot tight groups...

haha, I like this idea. I actually skipped last weekends match because of this...

Cool, thanks for the response, that did help me understand a bit more... Definitely already set on trying the PD's, I just like to know all aspects about what I do, not just that they didn't work, but why. And regarding the crimp, cool, I kind of thought it was fine. I do random tests for setback using both methods you mentioned above, and haven't gotten setback on any tested, as well as the measurement being in spec. I wish I had some still, but when I get the PD FMJ's in, I'll try those and report back... Again, my sincere thank yous to you all for the help and suggestions. I was kind of stumped and at a fork in the road with possible solutions, and now have an avenue to go down...

Going to order some PD's fmj's tomorrow and try those. Hopefully that'll help, but.... I really have to ask, if the measurement of MG and Zero's often come up under .355, why would those be any better than X-Treme plated bullets? And I know and shoot with a lot of really good shooters than have been using X-Treme's for years and love them. I know not each gun is the same, but the bullets were measuring really consistent, so if the size is normal, I'd like to understand more the difference of why one is better than the other. I know there are a lot of threads "plated v. fmj", but honestly, never got many facts out of any of them, just personal opinions. Also, to touch on crimp again, should I try crimping slightly harder? I remember pulling a Miwall bullet a while ago and seeing it about cut through the plating, yet, those rounds are more accurate than mine.

I just measured some bullets, and after crimp, there is no difference. But the bullets are measuring to .3535-.354. Not a single one out of 21 measured was .355. Shouldn't it be at .355? Could that be the problem? I've had 3 different lot #'s too, so if they just under size their bullets, might that explain it, using a stock barrel?

I pulled 2 bullets, and on one, you can barely see a line, and it is only about 1/2 way around. On the other, it is all the way around, and just slight visible, and I can just barely feel it with my fingernail. The line is actually more visible in the pictures... I saw another thread looking for G19 loads and a few of them are running crimp at .376, should I try crimping a bit more on these bullets I've already made? Edit: Will measure the difference with a caliper when I get home and update the post...

I have read about that with lead, but I wasn't really worried about that with the X-Treme's due to the plating thickness, but that's just heresay for all I know. I don't have another crimp die, but am about to place an order for some Precision Delta's, so hopefully that won't matter as much with those bullets? I'm using the X-treme plated not their lead, but will be pulling a couple in a few hours when a friend gets here with his puller, and will report back on that. Shortened your response here, thanks for the info! I fully agree, I actually created a spreadsheet to track my reloading. I have individual sheets for different loads tried (all loads named by 9-A, 9-B, etc..) and all their data, including chrono results, grouping, standard deviation, and power factor calculations. Even a table of contents with quick stats, an on going round count of rounds reloaded (just for my own knowledge and press maintenance reminders) and a sheet to print for taking to the range to write results down on. Cool, crimp seems ok then. Although... While I have had no fail to ejects, even under rapid fire and quick mag changes of 30 straight rounds, I do notice that some of my shells are slightly flat towards the mouth on the neck. It isn't on all of them, is very slight, and has caused no failures yet, although I've been trying to figure that one out too... I have had another shooter better than myself try it also to confirm. For 6 weeks I thought it was just me shooting like crap. I've put about 20k rounds through my gun though and am a pretty good shot with it too, which is why I felt so much better when I tried the factory loads for the first time in a while and found I grouped those nicely, and also grouped nicely firing my friends gun. That was a big relief... Kind of.... But with the quality of shooters I have at my club range, I have no shame in letting others test my gun to make sure it's not me. Thank you all for your responses. Being a shooter for most of my life, I always was wanting to get into reloading, and this forum is what finally gave me the confidence.

I'll pull a few and check. And when getting in on the group buy, I save about $15-20 per 1k, but otherwise, Precision Delta's are about the same price, so I'm gonna order a couple thousand since I know they're good, and I'm not getting good results now anyway... Thought about that, but since my barrel still has acceptable accuracy for me with other ammo, I'm going to save my limited funds for now. It is on the list though... Yes, using the FCD. I have the seating die adjusted to not crimp, but just seat, and crimp with the the FCD. No redundancy, I appreciate the help! Since my crimp and seat seem pretty consistent, is there another reason to try another crimp die?

I'm gonna try some lighter loads again then and see if that helps. I loaded lighter loads at first, but might have had more variance due to not being as fluid on the press as I am now?

Wow, thanks for the responses, this is a great community! I really appreciate the help... 4.5gr of W231 with Zero FMJ at 1.150 got me average power factor of 127.72, what's the oal that load? 5.1 gr load got me at 137 power factor (knocks down steel better), and burns clean, but not accurate. I'd prefer to stay around/over 130 power factor to make sure a light one would still pass, if needed... Thinking I might try fmj's again... Would suck to not get in our group buys on the X-Treme's though, great way to get them cheap... Just weighted 20 bullets after typing this, were between 123.6 to 124.2 with most all at 123.6 and 123.8... Is that too much variance? I just measured 20 rounds and the crimp on all of them is .3765-.378, does that sound OK? Definitely from a rest...

Sarge, thanks for the response, I'll answer step by step... The factory reloads from Miwall are also 124 grain bullets. I did try my rounds out of a G17 with stock barrel and saw the same results as with my gun. Also had someone else shoot my gun and loads with same results. And while I know a G19 isn't a competition gun, I do use this for USPSA as I like to shoot what I'd rely on. I love USPSA and IDPA, but enjoy it more for fun, prep, and muscle memory training as opposed to competition. For reference, the Miwalls had about a 1" group with touching holes at ~10 yards. For the Zero's, I didn't have much luck with those either, but I really wrote that off to them being the first 500 I ever loaded. Maybe try them again, or a different FMJ round (Montana Gold / Precision Delta)? (edit to add: For what its worth, I think that Miwall uses plated bullets also as when I pulled one, the crimp had cut through the plating) I've had my G19 for a while, and it has seen almost 20k rounds without issue. I'm not looking for bullseye accuracy, but I am looking for at least the accuracy I had with the Miwall factory reloads / other factory ammo.

I've been reloading for about 2 - 2 1/2 months, and have tried a bunch of OAL and powder drop combos, and I can't seem to find a load that will group under 4-5" at ~10 yards. They have all functioned fine, being shot out of a G19, stock barrel. I've been using Winchester small pistol primers, range brass, and W231 so far since I was given a 4lb jug on loan, but did try a load with WSF with the same results. Crimp varies slightly due to range brass, but is always .375-.379 Reloading on a Lee Classic Turret with the Lee 4 Die set. I've used some Zero's at first and mainly X-Treme plated bullets, 124gr RN bullets for all loads. A lot of people I shoot USPSA with have been using these bullets for years and recommended them, and X-Treme told me they can go up to 1,500 fps, so seems they have pretty good plating! A few examples of loads I've tried are: 4.9, 5.0, & 5.1gr W231 @ 1.150 OAL // 4.7gr W231 @ 1.120, 1.130, & 1.150 OAL // 4.7-4.8gr WSF @ 1.169 OAL When testing, I'm bench rest shooting at about 10 yards, and just can't seem to get under 4-5" group. I thought it was me having multiple off days until I fired a friends G34 just fine. Then shot some old Miwalls I still had through my gun, 124gr factory reloads, and I grouped those well through my gun. So this says to me it's not me or my gun, but my reloads. As a reloading newb, I am kind of stumped as to what to try next... Sorry for the long post, but I wanted to try and be as descriptive as possible. I've been searching and reading around this forum and have learned a bunch, so anyone have any advice on this situation?

I ended up loading trying to load rounds, couldn't get a damn thing to work right, even after adjustments. Spent some time on the phone with Lee, and they basically told me they don't know... So I exchanged it from Midway for a new one, including new spare turret. And now, I LOVE this press. The fact that it is auto-indexing is a huge benefit in my opinion, so really hoped that was a fluke. My reloading times have significantly improved. The first LCT I had just seemed to be a dud and had all kinds of poor machining, it was just off. The one I got after the exchange is much nicer. I did need to make some slight adjustments, but it is now really running smooth and producing some nice ammo.

I love the RRA in my AR too, only a few thousand rounds through it, but no problems thus far, and got it for a good price.... That being said, the feel of the Geiselle was awesome...