stuart1336

I have a Remington Versa Max 28" and want to buy a large bolt handle but can't seem to find one. They are different to the 1100. Nordic don't list them on their site. Brownells and Midwayuk don't have any listed. The design is very similar to my Benelli but a bit shorter. My standard Remington handle wont reach into the Benelli M2. The M2 bolt reaches in the Versa Max but does not click in? Any suggestions or should I hit the M2 bolt home with a hammer?

I load a pistol and AR with my left hand so to me it makes sense to load the shotgun with the same hand. I also think that if I had started to use the right hand initially I would have been quicker for no other reason than I am right handed. I am also aware that several people have had an ND using the strong hand where one of the fingers has caught the trigger in the remount. Not something I would want to do. Reacquiring the target quicker is something that will be argued both ways. For me I think that with the gun down low nothing obscures my vision and I acquire the target very quickly. Others will argue that with the gun on your shoulder you get the targets quicker that way faster. I have watched Keith Garcia's youtube videos hundreds of times (traditional weak hand) and wondered why he is so fast but does not load in the shoulder. I came to the conclusion that he practices everyday and he must shoot two eyes open so a clear view is more advantageous than less movement. How you practice is very important. A two hour session is not as good as 20 minutes a day 4-5 days a week. If you have several hours to spend it would be better to break the time up during the day. I also think that people who post that it took them only a few hours to learn a system give new shooters the wrong impression. Starting from scratch it took me just over 2 months to get to a live fire 4 second load 8. Three weeks of building work at home in Jan/Feb and I'm now in the 5 seconds.

Loading weak hand I could never get consistantly under 7 seconds. Live fire it was normally about 9 seconds. I bought my first shotgun February 2012 so I have not been in the game long. I imported two FSL12's and got them in September 2012 and didnt get on with them to start. At the end of October I put my mind to it and the results have been outstanding with load 4. To do this I had to learn load 2 first. I shoot live fire once a week. The rest of the week I make do with loading, dry fire and airsoft. When I shoot live i always start with the same drills and these are the times for the last two weeks for a few of them. Feb 7 - Benelli M2 Load 8 targets @10m, 6" plates (start on aim) 0.21+4.54=4.75 0.20+4.59=4.79 0.22+4.29=4.51 Load 8 on move as above but boxes 5m apart with the gun 0.21+5.01=5.22 0.22+5.15=5.37 against the gun 0.29+7.29=7.58 (fumble) 0.22+5.15=5.37 Versa Max Synthetic 24" Load 12 0.92+2.82+0.37+2.62+0.33+4.18=11.44 0.99+2.78+0.30+3.59+0.32+2.75=10.73 0.89+2.88+0.28+2.61+0.25+3.44=10.35 Feb 14 - Versa Max Load 4 0.76+3.13=3.89 0.76+3.15=3.91 Load 8 0.83+7.51=8.34 (stoppage failed to feed) 0.85+5.20=6.05 The M2 is the gun I have been using for a year. The VM is new and still has a few issues to sort out which is why there are not as much data for this week. What I hope it shows is a relatively new shooter can achieve good results with load 4 if you put in the time. Even when I fumble I am still faster than with a perfect weak hand load. I know the question was about load 2 but once you can load 2 you will definitely move on to load 4. I would also say that you need to take your time and build up to it. Load 4 is easier than weak hand but that doesn't mean its EASY! The fastest time I have on video is below with the M2 (13 Dec 2012) 0.28+4.86=5.14. The fastest I have shot it is 0.26+4.00=4.26 (2 Jan) 13 Dec Feb 7

Playing with FSL12's

I run an M2 and have good results with the FSL12. After reading a lot about the Versa Max I bought a 28" synthetic (only model available in the UK). We have cut it down to 24" and modified it for loading to the point now where its as easy to load as the M2. Either gun will produce fast loads with practice. What I would say is more important than choosing between them is choosing a gunsmith. To modify either gun takes experience and time and at each stage the gun needs to be tested and things tuned. In the UK the M2 is very popular, so lots of people have had experience of welding and fitting the lifter and there are lots to copy. The VM has been a different experience and without the knowledge of a good gunsmith, it wouldn't be possible for the average shooter. The internals are not the same quality finish as the Benelli and required work. Now both guns are almost the same to load with the exception that the fore end on the VM is a lot wider. This doesn't affect the loading as long as you put in the practice. Both guns have had metal removed to allow the thumb to travel further forward. What I have found, through practice, is that when you start to go quite fast, occasionally the second round does not quite click in and the shell jumps back. Two things can happen then. The round either goes above the lifter and out on to the floor or under the lifter. When it goes under, you cant load another round until the gun is fired or racked. Not a problem if its the last round but a pain if its not. The answer is to either slow the slide of the hand or remove more of the body of the gun. I believe its something that should be done gradually and only when you know that it is not your technique that is wrong. How far is just right? depends on you. Take a bit off, practice a few times and then adjust as necessary. Just remember you cant put it back again. You also need to be sure that everything else is correct. This week with the Versa Max it still wasn't smooth to load. After reading up on the forum we weakened the shell catch. It still wasn't quite right, so some more reading, we decided to polish out the bolt carrier and shell catch. What a difference that made. So in short the gunsmith is the most important choice not the actual gun. The Benelli M2 and Versa Max can both be made to load fast and there is nothing really between them. The process takes time. Don't expect to buy the gun and a caddy and instantly get a fast load. It takes a bit of effort with the gun and regular practice. The fastest time I have had live fire on shoot 1 load 8 shoot one is 4.26 seconds. 0.26 reaction to the timer and 4 seconds for a load 8 and one shot. Thats after three months practicing 3 times a week for about 20 minutes each time. That's an average shooter who has been competing for 18 months but only bought his first shotgun a year ago. I used to load traditional weak hand (about 8-9 seconds load 8). If you already use the load 2 systems and are fast, the conversion to load four will take you a few hours. Hope this helps.

Hi Nathan, A couple of questions for you about the VM mods. I have bought a Versa Max synthetic 28" (all thats available in the UK). We have cut it down to 24" and fitted a tube (capacity now 12). The way the gun laws are over here it has been almost 3 months to get it on my license so I can take it home, so we have been slow modifying it. The lifter is welded and fitted. We have now opened up the port and filed down the hand-guard but it doesn't load as smooth as my M2. Next we are going to do the shell latch. We ordered a spare several months ago and it still hasn't arrived so we are a little nervous of ending up with an expensive ornament if it goes wrong. We have taken the inner spring out. How much material do you need to take out of the u shapes? or is it just a case of file it a bit and try it then take some more? Is there anything else to do?

Im not familiar with you gun but all airsofts will need silicon for the seals to operate. Magasines need them as well which is why it is put in the gas. Is the mag actually filling with gas? I have only ever had one TM not work in the way you describe with just a click and it was an internal part that was broken. If the mags are holding gas it has to be the gun as I doubt you would be so unlucky to get three bad ones. First port of call would be the shop you bought it from. Sorry I cant be of more help.

I run a Nordic +7 tube and I cant quite get 12 in my M2. With a little extra this would be possible. Nordic list three sizes of end cap the biggest being one and a half inches but their site doesnt allow transaction due to a problem with their bank processing cards. Brownells and Midway only list the smaller sizes. Anyone know where I can get one mail order?

Thank you guys

I need a little help! My friend has entered both of us in SMM3Gun I'm March. He has had the confirmation email but it has no names on it only his email address. The ATF require me to produce an invite or confirmation of entry to allow me to bring my guns into the US. We have emailed registrations@smm3gun.com but there has been no reply. The website has no contact details. Can anyone point me in the right direction? Thank you

Thanks for the comments guys and now you mention it I'm sure I've seen you full name before so I should have known. Looking back at the videos, writing doesn't seem to be my strong point as I can't spell LOAD! Cajun I've watched your videos as well and your load 2 ones actually got me back into the FSL. I couldn't manage the grab and kept throwing shells everywhere and your videos prompted me to start load two first. Last week was the first time I have tried the load 8 and 12 with this system. My previous best on load 12 was 17 seconds with traditional caddies and I have never beaten 8 seconds on a load 8 (live fire). That's some difference in time. I looked at my splits and shot to shot I was just over .3 and my fastest load was 2.77. I think a shot to shot of .3 with loads of 2.7 is quite possible in the next few weeks so that would be 9.5 to aim for. Cajun I know you've been under 9 Load 2 have you tried it with the SSLP yet? Nathan have you tried the SSLP? It must be easier than the FSL to grab

A big thank you to Nathan Heiny for posting his videos on YouTube. I have watched them a million times. The quad load didn't come easy to me but now I am getting results. I think the guys that used load 2 before will find it easier than I did coming from a weak hand caddy system. I used to practice weak hand 2-3 times a week but have never got below about 6.5s with 7.5s being more of a realistic time. When I first got the FSL12 I had a go and then put it away as I just couldn't get to grips with it. Then at the end of October I decided if Nathan can do it so can I. Six weeks on these are the result.

The hop up makes the BB spin which keeps it flatter for longer but won't have much effect at 5 yards. If you take it out the gun won't function properly. Have you tried it at closer distances? If you go to the bamairsoft site, downloads, they have free scaled targets to print. There is a link to a post on this forum where they discuss distances and some of those targets only need to be 2 foot in front of the muzzle to give you a sight picture the same as the real thing. I doubt the BB could drop much in that distance. Reduce the distance and target size and see how you go.

Delivery of sheet steel to the UK is a bit expensive. A friend is a metal fabricator and has copied the design for me. Tested a prototype this week. Most of the kit you can get in the US costs at least double by the time it is shipped and import duties and tax added. I have a set of BAM steels and a few of there poppers but the cost was horrendous. I'm pretty sure they are the only ones in the UK. Worth the money though, I won my last steel match and shocked a lot of people.

Bit the bullet and bought a 28" synthetic. Shot it today and the recoil is very light compared to the M2. Put some 28g and 32g through it. If it works reliably with the 28g that will be awesome. The rib is such that it can be cut to 24 (UK minimum length) but I will leave it as is for now. Needs a fair amount of work underneath for load 4 but nothing unusual.

Buy a Tokyo Mauri you can get parts quite easily and they are reasonably easy to fix.

I have both the 4.3 and 5.1. There are more choices in after market slides and frames for the 5.1 and thats the main difference. 4.3 mags are slightly shorter than 5.1. If you fit a mag well to a 4.3 the mag won't fit unless you take the base plate off and then it a bit short to reload properly. If you want to run a mag well get a 5.1. The 5.1 also has an adjustable rear sight. TM's are quite easy to work on and you can get replacement parts or upgrades for everything. My 4.3 has run about 15,000 round and just broken a nozzle. The part is cheap to get. They don't require cleaning but need maintenance every now and then. I think the most important choice when you buy an airsoft is who you buy it from. Make sure the dealer specialises in airsoft, sells parts and has a technician working full time. If you dont want to repair it yourself you can send it off and get it back quick. Thy can also diagnose common problems over the phone and sell you parts. Airsoft is a fantastic tool for busy people but they need to be treated like any other gun platform. You get what you pay for, they do need looking after and bits will break. If you want it to last longer and shoot fast or more accurately buy better parts.

Found a few Versa Max for sale in the UK at £1300 that's almost $2100 You guys don't know how good you have it! :-)

Thanks for the replies guys, I'm going to see if I get one over here.

Could I ask a question of the guys with Tactical's - if it wasn't available would you shoot the 26" field versa max? I ask as the tactical is illegal in the UK as semi auto's must have 24"+ barrel. I'm doing quite well with an M2 but can't help feeling that a gun that fires softer would be better.

Airsoft development started off in Japan as they have no real guns which is why the TM's are good. Maintenance is low. My first gun is trouble free after about 15,000 shots. They need a bit of silicon spray every now and then. I kind of assumed you were in the US if your in the UK or Europe look at this guys website. All he does is build TM's and he does 1911. This is where I get my guns. Www.eliteshootingcentre.co.uk

For a good intro to airsoft look at the video page on www.bamairsoft.com In the US you have a large selection of manufacturers to choose from. The most popular gun used seems to be the Tokyo Mauri Hi Cappa 5.1 but this is an STI clone. I have 2, a 4.3 and 5.1 both upgraded. TM do 1911's but I personally have no knowledge. Have a look at Bam first and you will get the idea of what's involved. They also have links to free printable targets which are scaled down.

The guy I buy my TM hi cappa's from has lots of original parts for them. If you find a company in your country that fits upgraded parts or sells custom TM G17's I would bet they have loads of originals in a box somewhere that they can't get rid of. Possibly an email to their service dept asking to buy a few would be best.

Check the Four Islands forum in the UK http://four4islands.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=741 Steve at Shield in Dorset also does them sometimes and this weekend I am shooting with a guy who is a metal fabricator who has done a friends. If you have no joy PM me your telephone number and I will give you a call.