Vlad

And because I'm bored, I did more research on the 7.65 french round. It was only used in that handgun and in the Mas 48 subgun, both where out of service by 1950. Ammo is VERY rare but two companies which specialize in oddball ammo do load for it. Reloaders can make the brass out of .32SW LONG brass, by turning down the case rim and shortening the case. I found the following two places but I know nothing about them: http://gadcustomcartridges.com/#pistol http://slickaz.tripod.com/amomil.htm RCBS makes dies, they call them "7.65mm French MAS Auto". The gun itself was upgraded to 9mm after WWII and became the MAS 1950. Also there is a Mle 1935S which was a simpler to make version of 1935A but looks VERY different. The French are wacky.

Sweet! The first one is a Mle 1935A which is 7.65x22 Longue. Oddball french caliber, for which I doubt there is ammo to be found. The second one is a Ortgies, one of a series of popular pocket pistols, in .25ACP, .32ACP, and .380ACP. This is one is pretty much sure to be a .32ACP. Interestingly, the design for the Mle 1935 seemed to have been bought be the swiss and it was developed into the SIG pistols, your buddy's gun almost looks a bit like the SIG 210.

There are 2 calibers that might be marked 7.65 from that time period, the 7.65mm Luger also know as 7.65mm Parabelum, or the .30 Luger. The other one is 7.65mm Browning also known as .32ACP. Both where fairly popular in Europe around that time period. The Luger version is a necked down 9mm case (well the 9mm is a blown out .30 Luger) and the .32 is straight walled, which should help identify it by looking at the chamber.

Over sharks, maybe?

What the hell? Did he actually shoot better then the rest of the people in that division? Yes? Then he won based on his ability. That's like saying Jerry M hides in Revolver and only kicks ass because everyone else sucks. It is insulting to the guy that won based on skills he practiced, and it insulting to everyone else shooting the division by telling them they suck so bad that one runaway from a different division can beat them at their game with little or no effort. Wait .. so the complaint is that he doesnt want to play in your sandbox? Thats only a skip and a hop away from saying that everyone who doesn't shoot your division of choice are just losers who can't stand up the real men. Jesus .. Merlin had it right. Based on this logic you think that everyone who ever boxed should go to a sparing match, see Tyson in the ring and not change divisions. Hell, why is he using that sissy helmet and plastic thingy in his mouth? He should take his beating like a man!! As far as I can tell everyone who complains about hiders really just complains that there aren't more people shooting their division as to make their prize pool bigger. In fact, the complains these hiders are also getting prizes they didn't deserve (according to some) also boils down to the same "problems" of not enough prizes in your favorite division. Sorry, but I call BS, as far as I can tell complains about hiders getting prizes, are just complains about not getting enough prizes. Either way, kinda the same attitude, the hiders want more prizes and go shoot a different division to get them, taking a chance to get their asses handed to them in that division, and the complainers want the hiders to stay in their division so they can get more prizes. Either way, I'm not impressed.

Again, I think many of you guys are missing the point. It is not about fantasy or not. It is about following the principles the sport was founded on. Practicality is one of the founding principles. Designing stages (or targets) just to be eye candy is not following the principles. But the practicality of what? I argue that the game should stress partical skills. Those skills can be tested and stressed in more ways then one. Hiting a small moving object and thinking fast about direction changes is a VERY practical skill, even if a texas star is not target directly representing a practical scenario. USPSA courses stress draws, shooting on moving targets, shooting from strange positions, etc. All these are practical skills, even if the courses of fire are not. Who in their right mind will charge in a room with 10 adversaries?

So you are saying it is about gaming the prize table, not the glory. By now I am assuming that the rant you are avoiding is something about the corrupting powers of the prize tables, or their distribution. I don't know enough about the subject to have a strong opinion either way, but I'm guessing most prize tables are provided by donations from companies that want their name out. The class winners spend money too so as far as I can see it works towards everyones advantage. At most it has has Lewis system problem, where I get bit all the time because I'm ususally not good enought to get in the top tier but to good to get into the middle ones. Oh well. Again ... is a shooter playes by rules and wins a class/division, I think he deserves his win, and whatever prizes. If he is sandbaging then we need to start kicking people up in classes based on match wins. Seems simple enough to me, and a lot more reasonable then forcing everyone to shoot a certain division or changing the rules. BTW, you and I agree on lots of things, I just think that your proposed direction of 'man-on-man", screw artifical limits, etc, would hurt the game in the long run. The game started there and didn't have that many shooters, it has grown while adding divisions. And you still haven't told me how you solve the problem of production becoming a 1 or 2 gun division.

Just my local experience, but around here L10 is very popular with single stack guns. Almost no one shoots a widebody in L10. With the SS division prohibiting light rails (and seeing how almost every 1911 on local shelves has one) I think L10 will continue to be the home of single stacks for many shooters. Those folks who like their railed 1911's don't want to compete against 21 rounders in Limited and can not shoot in SS. Maybe you would like them to leave or maybe we should demand they buy new guns? Again ... Why do you want a 2 gun division? Just because you shoot one of the 2 guns, I think it would be rude to tell everyone else that their guns are worthless in that division. I know they are not, I know Sevigny would kick my ass with a muzzle loader, but new shooters do not know that. The other stupid side effect of the capacity left to the manufacurers are things like the SP01 with its extended mag. No really .. its ok .. we made it that way and put rubber around it .. its isn't an extention .. believe us! Give me a break! What would stop the next firm from making a gun with a 30 rounder and call it the standard length magazine? And I realize you don't really care about it, but lots of state still have magazine capacity limits. Maybe we should tell all those shooters to drop dead too. So let me see if I get this straight ... Mr Hide chooses to shoot L10 to avoid Mr Leathem at some match. Mr Hide kicks my ass in L10. I am hurt how? If Mr Hide shot better then me and complied with the rules of the game, how is cheating? Mr Hide is better in "my" division, the scores don't lie. I don't give a pomegranate if he doesn't love the division, or if he was hiding. He competed in the division, by the rules, and he won. What exactly is the complaint? The guy who showed up to play HIS game, got beat by someone else who played the same game. Heh .. no kidding. Why do we spend large amounts of cash on small bits of metal to modify our guns? For a better chance at winning. Why do practice? For a better chance at winning. Why do we argue over small stupid rules, or about what is a muzzle weight or a compesator? For a better chance at winning. But you think that a shooter should go to a match with his B class card, look at 14 GM's in his division and decide that despite all his efforts, practice, and spent money, he should play in that division anyway and loose like a man. As opposed to trying to win in a different division. What is the sense in that exactly? Just so he can see how he compares? He can do that by looking at the overall scores.

Don't put words in my mouth (or in my posts)...I didn't say that I cared. It amuses the hell out of me, but I shoot my own game and I don't care much what others do...although I will make fun of a guy who thinks Division-shopping is the way to win instead of...practice. I'm just another Master looking to move up (and still get beat), so don't worry about me Sorry if I misunderstood you. If it is a source of entertainment even more reason not to complain about it Make that "...most AMERICAN Production shooters..." and you might (might!) be correct. However, the REST of the world finds the Clinton-approved ten-round artificial limit to be amusing at best. And I care because ...? I think their targets are funny shaped and their production holsters are interesting to say the least. That doesn't mean I spend a lot of time trying to change their ways. There are 2800 classifed production shooters. There are 3 regions that have that many shooters (total), right? I was refering to the American production division because thats the one with the limit, and those who shoot it seem to like it. I just don't understand why people who don't shoot production and L10 keep on trying to change those divisions.

Well Alex thank you for your examples. While I wouldn't be impress by Mr Hide you have described, and maybe I even understand how he might be gaining an advantage, how does he hurt others and why do other care? If that behaviour bother you so much, instead of trying to dictate to everyone what division they should like, how about you change your own registration to that of Mr. Hide and beat him as his game regularly? That would teach Mr Hide that there is no place to hide, without actually screwing with everyone else who prefers to shoot those divisions. You also keep on bringing up the 10 round limits. If you don't like them, then don't shoot those divisions. Most production shooters seem to like them just fine. They make the game HARDER by making you think about your stage plan more, by forcing more reloads you can't afford to fumble, and by placing more mags on your belt further and further back. Now, if you like to stick a friking subgun mag in your open gun and never have to reload, thats cool. But lots of people actually like testing their reloading skills The fun of 10rd aside, it also allows Joe Everyman to come shoot. Looking at IPSC production, I note that it is becoming a 2 gun game with Glocks and CZ's and 9mm only. Sure other guns and calibers can play, but they don't win. That is not a way to grow a sport. So pretty please, with sugar on top, if you don't want to shoot production or L10 that is your right, but stop trying to tell those who do that they are doing it all wrong.

A few threads over the years and some FS articles reference the idea of people "hiding" in some division or another. So far my gut reaction has been to interpret that as people complaining that the prize pool is not big enough in their division because some other people choose to shoot a different one. Or maybe it isn't about the prize pool, but about some odd notion of competitive advantage. I am willing to accept that maybe my understanding of the phenomenon is flawed. So could someone please explain to me what this hiding is? No need to name names, but could someone give me an example of the behaviour of a shooter hiding? How does it benefit him/her? How does it harm other shooters or the sport? I've been trying to wrap my head around the concept, and so far I'm failing to understand what people are complaining about what why they are complaining. Help me out here.

So what exactly would be the point? How would this kind of match not become a "open" only match (or whatever "highest" division fits withing the match limits)? Do you really think that people will choose to shoot their production guns, or single stack or whatever, heads up against open guns? Or their production guns against limited guns? People will just bring out whatever toy will be most competitve, so .. why not just have a matches that aim at one division only? And how would this bring people out of "hiding"? I think the whole "hide" issue is a bit insulting in both this case and the FS articles, but even assuming there where shooters hiding .. why would they come to shoot your match? As for having limited only, or open only, or production only ... how is that different that any match where production shoots against production and limited against limited, except for the fact that shooters might have a choice to shoot a division they like better then another one. If you want to know how you scored overall just ask your stats person to print out the overall results, it is just one more button press in EWS. I'm sorry but as far as I can tell the point of such a match would be to shine a light on those roaches hidding in those dark divisions that some people think shouldn't exist (if such hidding actually exists may be a regional issue, I don't see it my area). However those people won't shoot the match so whats the point?

I don't think he was saying that they're going away or predicting their death. You will note that he repeatedly notes that they are profitable, stable, and with a healthy market. I do kinda think he is right in the sense that they can't seem to find their next great project. I think by now MSN has cost them billion in losses. What is their solution? We'll try a new version of the same and call it "Live!", that exclamation point will make it so much better. The Xbox is their only bright shinning star.

Huh? Doesn't the scoring system take into account different powerfactors for different guns? Pretty much everyone shoots major handgun and shotgun and minor rifle.

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It is not about being sheriff. It is about understanding where people are coming from. Sometimes a person opinion or position doesn't make sense unless you frame it in the correct context. omnia1911 is free to ignore the questions, but someone who refuses to answer some simple non-intrusive questions, may find himself ignored in turn, or their opinion devalued. It isn't about cornering someone or accusing them that don't have the right to an opinion becuase they are or are not part of a certain region. It is about understand someones position.

Happy Birthday Nik! All the best to you and yours.

... and then all the other games .. shotguns sports, benchrest, F class, class 3 games, and up to and including cannon matches. Just another one of those things that sets the US in a slightly different light then other regions. In some regions IPSC may be the big dog, in the US its just a another runt trying to get some warmth out of the puppy pile.

Yup, I think everyone needs to shoot at least one game where they just don't care how the place and just shoot for the fun it. My new quilty pleasure is steel. I don't get to shoot it often but I have fun doing it and because I really don't care how well I do, I have a lot more fun. Of course, shooting USPSA and giving a damn is also fun, but in a different way.

Based on what rule? In the situation I described the shooter was moving and was not holding the gun in a normal shooting position. If the gun fires that's an AD. because the shooter had to be moving with their finger in the trigger guard. I must have misunderstood you, because I didn't see anywhere in your scenario that the shooter was moving. If the shooter is standing still, then there is no rule DQ'ing him. You didn't misunderstand. I forgot to put it in there. But it was in my twisted little mind! I see now. You are saying that when talking to you I should put myself in the same mindframe I use when talking to my wife.

Based on what rule? In the situation I described the shooter was moving and was not holding the gun in a normal shooting position. If the gun fires that's an AD. because the shooter had to be moving with their finger in the trigger guard. I must have misunderstood you, because I didn't see anywhere in your scenario that the shooter was moving. If the shooter is standing still, then there is no rule DQ'ing him.

Based on what rule?

I'll be the minority man, and say there is nothing wrong with the 550. I only load about 300 per hour, 400 if I push it, but that is without a case feeder. I suspect I could get around 600 or more with a casefeeder. The one advantage of the 550 is that it can be bought in small parts. You can start with a 500AT and add parts till you have a complete machine. It will cost you more in the long run but if you are on a budget and don't want to wait for 6 months to get the money together, it may be a solution.

For me the answer are better fitness, eat something small every stage, drink as much as I can, and that includes winter not just the hot months.

In what case can you AD and not get DQed? Yes, a detonation during unloading (10.4.3.1) or an actual breakage of the gun (10.4.9). An AD during reload should send you home NO MATTER IF IT HIT A TARGET, as per 10.4.3: 10.4.3 Ashot which occurs while preparing to or while actually loading, reloading or unloading a handgun. This includes any shot fired during the procedures outlined in Rule 8.3.7. No exception for the shot impacting a target. Note however that if the shooter is a bit to quick on the trigger while drawing or transitioning and his round impacts the berm and his not moving at the time, that doesn't seem to be an AD or a DQ. Are you joking? If you UD any other time than loading, reloading or clearing a malf and it stays in the range - you are not DQ'ed.If you UD during the draw and it hits dirt outside of 3m away from you, you are not DQ'ed. Unless you are moving.