Vlad

I'll bring it to you Jim. Basically there were two different girls in their underwear.

Yup, I think it should be an option, not the default.

They are not a Beretta knockoff. They sorta are the Beretta Cougar. Apparently the entire production line was moved to Turkey and the guns are identical but they are now sold under the Stoeger line. Stoeger is owned by Beretta. I've always liked them and wanted on in .45. With the current prices I might snag one.

Yup. The Bobcat is still being made in .25 even today.

A CZ won the last World Shoot. CZ's are some of the best handguns on the market and yet one of the least known by the public at large. Competition shooters have been singing their praises for some time. That being said there are a few different confiurations. At that price it is either a CZ75 or CZ40. The CZ75 can be in either 9mm or 40, the CZ40 is .40 only. I guess it could be the plastic CZ100, which I wouldn't recommend. Look around this forum a bit, visit http://www.cz-usa.com , and don't worry, CZ's are workhorses. If you want to buy a CZ for competition I would recommend the a 9mm version. I fact I would recommend a 9mm anyway, the ammo is cheaper which means you will spend more time shooting it, which in turn means you will become a better shooter.

It may be that the teklocks make the problem worse. My DOH is made of 3 parts but the the belt part is really slim. The droped hanger can be removed and the holster attached straight to the belt part.

I'm just curious, does anyone actually have a gun for which the DA shot is 4lb or less and it still lights up the primers? I'm not being cute with this question, I'm just really curious how well that would work seeing how you need to hand compress the hammer spring all the way with your DA pull.

Well .. which belt? Outter, inner, or the normal belt that keeps my pants up under the first two? I measured my CZ75 in my 3 piece DOH and to the inside of the outter belt it makes it, just. It measured 40mm, to the 41.275mm perscribed by the new rule. The CZ is a fairly slim gun and if it makes it, I would say most other guns should too, unless the DOH shape is wildly different for different designs. If I had to measure to the inner belt or to my normal belt then it won't make it.

Huh? So if we set a minium trigger pull to keep DA from getting to light we might just well make it a SA division but if we allow no limits then we are not making it a SA division? As I've said already, if we want to redefine Production to include SA guns and have categories I'd be open to it, but then you still need limits for the categories.

I've always said that I was in favor of a minimum pull for EVERY shot. I'm perfectly ok with a limit of 3lb for EVERY shot, thus removing the DA/SA shots being 4/1.

So you are saying that simple polishing of the factory parts will drop triggers bellow 3 lb? No one gives a rats behind about polishing and removing burrs. It takes a lot more then polishing of factory parts to reduce the trigger bellow 3lb. Maybe it is just me, but calling people whinners who can't measure up is not my definition of a reasoned argument. Sounds like you're trying to put words in my mouth. I never said one could replace as many parts as they wish and still calll a gun "Production". Stick to the facts and the discussion at hand. I'm not putting words into your mouth nor changing the subject you wrote: I argue that you have removed enough material you have altered the functionality of the pistol. I belive that modification within limits are alright. I don't even mind trigger jobs withing certain limits. The problem you seem to not be able to recognize that people have taken the exiting rules and run wild. The limits where not very well described and the new rules would redefine those limits. And no one has argued against a trigger job. Read back through ALL my posts on this forum and tell me where you see that. The whole point of this rule and of this argument is how far can you go with a trigger job. Yet you still didn't explain to me the difference between a "true" SAO gun an a striker fire gun which has been modified to 1.5lb trigger pull. Not being a SAO gun is still the core requirement of the division, even if you don't like it. If you are for defined limitations, then this is all about defining them. Also, and please don't take this the wrong way, it doesn't seem to me that you actually shoot production all that much. I'm not saying that because I shoot production all the time and you don't my opinion is more valubable then yours, but if you want to have a poll lets actually poll the people who shoot the division regularly. I might have opinions on speedloaders vs moonclips, but as I don't even own a revolver I don't think USPSA should give a damn what I think when they try to make the rules. Try to sell that to Dave Sevigny... Look, you can't have it both ways. Either it matters, in which case the fact that it doesn't matter to ONE guy is irrelevant, or it dosen't make any difference in which case why does anyone get upset if there is a minimum pull? I'd bet a bottle of Makers Mark that Dave's limited gun has a lightened trigger.

Maybe my english language skills are letting me down. Does "same configuration" only apply to thing YOU like? How can you say that replacing springs, using aftermarket parts, and altering factory parts is the same configuration? Yes you are right, under current rules. The whole point is that the current rules are flawed, in my opinion. My point is that if you lighten a trigger enough, and if you modify enough of it, it is functionally equivalent to a SAO trigger, no matter what its original configuration was. The basic functionality IS being altered. Finally, I would appreciate it if you toned down your "voice" a bit. I'm trying to a reason discussioned of the subject and I'm sick of these threads getting locked because people can't contain their emotions. We all get attached to this issues but it would help to remember it is only a game. You're straying well off the path here. Stick to the discussion of whether a legally recognized Production pistol should suddenly be excluded because the trigger pull is lightened. And be sure to address WHY. I am sticking to the discussion. You are claiming that you can make any changes you want to the original gun and still call it not a SAO because thats what the factory called it. My point is that if you modify a gun enough it no longer matches the original function. There is a philosophy thought experiment which refers to the nature of objects: Assuming you start with a new car and slowly replace EVERY part, at which point is it no longer the same car? This is not a business in which USPSA want to be mixed. We shouldn't be in the business of trying to figure out how much you can replace from a gun before it no longer is a production gun. A simple way to fix that problem is to set limits to the functional aspects of the gun so there is no need to keep on modifing the gun beyond its design. Thats what a trigger pull limit is. You ask why a recognized Production pistol should be excluded. No reason. However a MODIFIED pistol that started as a production gun, should no longer qualify. The difference is based on the action of the pistol as it comes from the factory - DA. DA/SA, SAO, DSO, etc. There are a bunch of other divisions in which that is already the case. By your logic we should be able to add magwells, porting, and optics to production guns. After all everyone else would be allowed so whats the big deal? Production is a division with restrictions. You you don't like restriction then don't shoot Production. If my arguments are not reasonable to you the please tell me are you in favor of ANY limitations on production? Please explain to me how you draw the line is someone else doesn't like where YOU draw the line in the sand? Oh for the love of Pete! You can't have it both ways. Either the equipment matters or it doesn't You can't complain that people are just whining because the couldn't measure up regardless of equipment, and tell them to buy better equipment like everyone else in the same paragraph. If that trigger pull is not an advantage then you can't complain about limits imposed on it. On the other hand, if trigger pull does matter, then you need to look at the Production division and realize that its rules are designed to flaten the equipment performance curve. edited to add: why the heck did my quote formating break?

We can argue this back and forth all week, and it still doesn't make a damn difference. The point I was attempting to make was related to what do people expect when we use the word "Production". If a case was ever prosecuted based on that argument is irrelevant. What is relevant is perception of what production means to the average Joe and what production means to USPSA. As it stands other sports can claim that USPSA is for racers/gamers only and that you need a race gun to even enter the game. I ask you again, what does the word mean to you? Everthing. Uhh .. Like what? No one seems to argue if a 1.5lb spring is safe or not. The argument about its suitability for PRODUCTION division. Ok .. I guess I can claim that white is black if I turn off the light. What is the difference between a SAO with only 1/8" take up and 1.5lb pull and a XD with 1/8" takeup and 1.5lb trigger pull? I think the whole point of the rule change is not what is currently legal under the existing rule book, but the fact that a whole bunch of people think that the current rules are broken by allowing what you describe. Yes it is legal today, hopefully it won't be in the next rule book. So what? We're not talking about the other divisions. I guess I was asking why do we need another division for SAO guns.

In some ways this problem was introduced by the striker fired guns like the Glock. This is where the DA vs SA distinction got a bit strange. The Glock, XD, P99, etc, are really neither. However it was decided that these guns are more like DAO guns then they are like SAO guns. I don't think that it was a bad thing. However, the striker fired guns can be modifed to reduce a factory 5lb trigger to as low as 1lb. At that point you just threw out the DAO requirement. Does that mean we should throw all striker fire guns into limited? I don't think so. Most people don't modify their guns that far, plus there are also other differences such as holsters, capacity, and powerfactor. So whats the problem you ask? IPSC and USPSA always worry about equipment races and welcoming new shooters. If striker fired guns with 1.5lb are considered superior then the perception will be that DA guns can't compete in production and again have no home. The production division was supposed to be their home. This is a further complication specific to USPSA. Under IPSC rules internal modifications are limited (in theory) to only minor details. In USPSA you can remove, replace, and until recently change the geometry of parts to the point that the action is no longer that of the original firearm. You can use parts made by different manufacturers that have nothing to so with the original design. I argue that this strage the definition of production. Yes there are people who can beat me a old Colt Navy no matter what trigger weight I shoot, but at equal skill levels trigger can and does make a difference. We keep telling people that they only compete against themselves or people in their class, but then we tell them that it doesn't matter what trigger or gun they use, its the shooter not the gun. Thats kinda false. At the same skill level the gun does matter. Sevigny is not shooting a Hi-Point. Leathem is not shooting a Raven. Give one a well tuned glock and the other a rusted Makarov and I'll place large bets on the one with the Glock. The "trigger weight doesn't matter so we should't care" argument is a red herring. Trigger weight clearly matters or people wouldn't try to lighten up their triggers and get upset when we start talking about limits.

Can you please cite a specific case reference where this has occured? **Saying 'Massage Aboob Has Said So' bears no weight in this instance. Need an actual case law reference. Let me put it you this way, Jim and I live in New Jersey, if we defend ourselves with a gun from a rabid nazi with a nuclear bomb on his back, while he is eating babies, we are getting prosecuted. Maybe this doesn't apply to everyone everywhere but the concept of a hair trigger is well engrained in popular culture, for better or worse. Why do you think Springfield isn't selling an XD with 1.5lb spring? Fear of lawsuits perhaps? Not really the topic though. See below. What does safe handling have to do with it? Which part of production confuses people? What is your definition of production? I'm not saying you shouldn't be able to lighten up your trigger or clean it up or adjust it for the defining quality of a Production Division gun is not SAO. I ask again, can you honestly tell me that a XD with 1.5lb trigger can be considered anything but a SAO? There are 4 other semi-auto divisions which don't give a flying monkey what you trigger weight is or what action type your gun has.

Well Jim, what defines a production gun? It seems to me that one of the defining characteristics of a Production division gun the No Single Action Only one. Can we honestly say that an XD with a 1.5lb trigger is not a SAO? I mean the XD is really kinda of SAO in action from the factory but I'll argue that it default trigger pull puts it in the DAO category. We all know that most gunsmiths frown upon carry 1911's with trigger pulls bellow 4lb (rightly or wrongly). We know what a prosecutor would say if you defended yourself with a "hair trigger" gun. My 1911 has a 3.5 lb trigger. Most factory 1911's are around 5 or 6 lbs. What about a XD with a 1.5lb trigger is still production? If people want to argue that we should redefine what production means by defining it as ANY action type with a limited number of mods, 10rd limit, minor, holster rules, and categories for action types, I'm all for that discussion. Given the current wording of the production rules and its core of no SAO guns, I see a minium trigger pull has a requirement for not making the division a L10 minor with holster rules. Frankly I would have prefered a 4.5lb to 5lb limit for the first shot OR a 3 to 3.5lb limit for EVERY shot, but I'll take the 3lb.

Hmm .. I do? I don't express my opinion on the rules for divisions I don't shoot.

There are many reasons to argue pro and con on this (I happen to be pro minium pull) but the "how do you enforce it" questions is not one of them. IPSC, Bullseye, and other disciplines have been doing this for some time. You can't even argue that some guns are harder then others, I'm sure that pleanty of Glocks get measured at every world shoot.

Seriously, if all else fails you can bat the deer to death with that. It is one cool looking bow, all joking aside. Enjoy it.

They still make them, http://www.amazon.com/Large-Platinum-Flame...r/dp/B000CGG5EC ... a few more versions linked under that one. I couldn't tell a bad one from a good one without using them.

I own two Canon's a A540 and a A710IS. They both rock. They have more options, controls, manual overrides, focus zones, and doodads then you can imagine. The A540 is in your price and spec range, the A710IS is pricier but my wife wanted the image stabilization. I've tried a few cameras mostly by buying them, playing with them, and returning them if I didn't like them (oh Circuit City how I love your full refunds). I think that bang for the dollar you can't beat the canon line. A540 spec page. Also a decent review of the thing: http://www.steves-digicams.com/2006_reviews/a540.html. Multiple pages of pictures and features shown at work.

More seriously, a lot of mountaineering deaths in the days of yore really could be traced due to being just wiped out physically and mentally due to hypothermia caused by wet cotton clothes. As soon as they become wet, they lose all insulation value and only serve as heat sinks, sucking the heat out of your body. Eric knows what he is talking about. Various materials have different insulating qualities at different water saturations. Cotton drops to about 20% of its original insulation when it gets wet which is to say it gets friking cold and sucks heat away from you. Most people have experienced this without going to some cold corner of the earth, by sleeping in a tshirt, sweating, and then waking up shivering. Wool is the traditional super cloth from this point of view. Even sweat soaked it retains about 80% of its insulation, it sorta has to if it is to keep the sheep warm. Some of the more recent fleeces come close, there is however a big difference between cheap fleeces and the better ones. The various sweat wicking materials also help move the moisture to the outer layers and keeping the chill factor away from your body. In my opinion, things like underarmor and such others are even more important when its cold then when it is hot, specially if you are mixing medium or high intentensity activities with stationary ones. Overheating and freezing in your own swear is a suck way to die.

When it gets really cold, I move my hydration blader under my coat. That way the water doesn't freeze. As for the rest .. I'm no expert but the simple answer is stay warm, without overheating. I know this sounds stupid but pleanty of people put on 20 layers, sweat, and then freeze to death in cold wet clothes. On the weapon lube question, all I have is what my now gone grandfather related to me. He spent some time as a artilery officer on the eastern front during WWII (on the Axis side). When it got cold they used to remove ALL grease from their gear as the it would turn to rock. They would use the lightest grade of lubricants or nothing at all. When it got really cold you didn't stop your engines, and you lit fires under your cannons. Metal gets brittle at very low temperature and you don't want to apply torque to a transmission which cooled down overnite in -30C and sure as hell you didn't want to fire a cannon shell through a 80mm barrel which cooled down to the same overnite. You never touched metal with your bare hands, EVER even if the cannons have been in the sunlight all day, the wind is still at -20C or so and the metal stay cool too.

This is one of those issues where there is a right answer for A LOT of people, but not for everyone. The "right" grip works great for a large majority of people, yet there are some top shooters who do it the "wrong" way and it works for them. There is a set of things that work best for most people. Do they ALL work best for everyone? No, but that doesn't mean that trying those things and seeing if they work for you too shouldn't be the first step. Maybe someone will win the nationals with their mags pointing the "wrong" way in the mag pouches. That doesn't mean that all new shooters should turn their mags around, the "right" way still works best for most folks. Did I just muddy the waters?

Hug a pillow. Get one of the cheaper harder pillows and drape you "top" arm over it, with the pillow sorta vertical on its edge. Think of the pillow laying on you chest, only you are on your side. It reduced the stress on your shoulder and being softer then your side it allows for more blood flow to you hand. I think this is common problem for people who are wide shouldered or barrel chested. The draw back is that if you like to sleep in a warm room or you are prone to sweating when you sleep, the pillow will make that problem worse. I like my sleeping area to be cool to cold so it isn't so much of a problem.