Vlad

What I find amusing is doing the maths. That looks like a 2x3ft steel plate (which was really the target, not the balloon) That means he hit something like a 3.5moa target at 1000 yards with a handgun, without magnified optics, off hand. We do have a contingent of folks who tell us that anything smaller then 4moa for rifle targets in 3gun is bad. Errr ... ok, but I guess we can have Jerry shoot the same stages with his revolver instead of a rifle.

Next time one of you sees him in person, sneak up on him and cut his forearm with your pocket knife. I'll bet you that you'll find the terminator arm assembly under a layer of artificial skin because this just confirms he isn't really human. I think he's bidding his time to go all skynet on us.

Is there a keymod mount I can buy for a knife? Also, this thread is useless without pics.

What if my fat ass gets stuck on the slide?

I'm sure you can save money. Using round numbers, $80 for bullets, $40 for primers, $70-$75 for powder. Thats less then $200 not counting the brass. If you have a pile of brass and get to use it a few times your cost will probably be less then $250 per $1000 for a load you prefer.

Nope, I don't ask for credentials, I'm not the law enforcement buisness. They don't play by different rules, they play by the same game rules. I really don't care how many rounds their mags can hold as long as they only load the USPSA requrired number. I have no idea where you got that notion from, my point was not that they get to play USPSA with different rules, but to counterpoint mildot's post that stated hicap posession would be illegal, and my point was that it isn't always true. So, yeah, my point was that I'm not going to DQ anyone for being a round over the limit, they just shoot for no score.

Possession of the magazine may not be illegal. There are always exceptions for law enforcement. Answer is the shooter in question is now shooting for no score. He can keep shooting or he can go home, but his scores are null and void, this firearm doesn't fit our game rules. Kinda like if you discovered some one was shooting a .380 in production.

Reloading .223 on a 550 is possible, I'm doing it, but it is a royal pain in the sphincter. Obviously the biggest issues are trimming and swaging. My process is (1) decap/resize (2) case gauge to detect cases that need to be trimmed. (3) trim the cases that need trimming. Doing this saves time as I don't use a power trimmer so only trimming those that needed is time efficient. (4) remove primer crimp as needed. I sort my brass and use the commercial non-crimped for bulk short range ammo, and use LC cases for longer range heavier bullet ammo (5) Now you have brass ready to go through. I run a resizer again, powder, sitting, crimp. You may not need another resize, I use an x-die there to keep it from growing but mostly I want to make sure I check that there is no crud in the primer hole. I do this in batches of 500-800 cases. Its a pain in the ass.

Sure, add to what? The momemnt I removed the magazine from the gun, it is no longer part of the gun. The gun has one round max in it. Any ammo I'm putting in the gun is adding ammo. I know english is not my native language, but add is a pretty simple word I think I got a handle on.

Objectively I think we all agree that removing the mag just enought to clear the mag well and re-inserting it is against the spirit of the classifiers and would incur a penalty of some sort. Mark's earlier solution I think is very valid. What I'm trying to determine is where we draw the line. Lets gets a bit precise about this. Lets look at the definition again: We haven't talked about what replentishment means yet, because there is an OR there, but lets ignore that for a now. Lets just worry about the second part, because everyone is talking about additional. Additional to what? Is isn't additional to my body, I had it all along. It isn't additional to the world, it was here before, so it must mean it is additional to the firearm. If I am inserting a magazine in the firearm, then I must not have one in there already. At the time I perform this action ANY ammunition is additional to the firearm, because it isn't it in. All that is solipsistic in the context of the classifier, because of the whole spirit and intent Mark refered to earlier, but is isn't really during the rest of match. I say again, if removing the magazine from the gun and putting it back in is NOT reloading, what is it? If I holster the mag and reuse it, what is the definition of the action I've undertaken? If it isn't a reload can I have my finger on the trigger?

What is the practical, logical, or competitive difference? If I use it without using a new one first what rule am I breaking? If it isn't reloading, can I have my finger on the trigger?

So Mark I'll ask you too, because I'm a bit confused. If I remove a mag, put it in a pouch, and then use it again, is that additional ammo or not? Does using it mean I'm not reloading?

I like that.

Sorry that is stretching logic for me. The momement I removed the mag from the gun, there is at best one round in the gun and the mag in my hand is additional to that. Reloading with a dropped mag is allowed. If I take a mag out of my gun and put it in a pouch to clear a jam and then I use it a again according to the rules that is also reloading even if it is the "old" ammo? I think people get bent out of shape about that definition of reloading when it is probably there to mostly define thing like when to keep your finger off the trigger and all the other anciliary things. Simple question, classifier aside, if I take a mag out the gun, put it on my belt and then use it again, is it reloading? If not, what is it? Because if it isn't reloading, can I keep my finger on the trigger when I do it?

wouldn't it be 60 - 60 = 0.00 hf? Procedural per shot fired. I'm guessing that's why people don't skip it. Sorry I missed that part of El Pres. I withdraw my absurd case. I would like to know if everyone is ok with placing the mag in the mag pouch and taking out again. If not, why not, what possible adventage could be gained?

Bah .. common sense would make a lot of rule lawyering and internet arguments go away, what's the fun in that?

Ok, lets use some logic, not made up USPSA logic. 1) Who says it has to be different ammo? Seeing how in a non-mandatory reload condition I'm allowed to use "old" ammo I picked up of the ground, where in the definition of mandatory reload does is say I can't use old ammo. Actually, please point me to the definition of "mandatory reload" 2) "Everyone would be doing this" .. well maybe they should. Allow me to point out an absurd example. Lets say you are one of those ultra skilled people who can shoot El Pres in 3.5 second with all A's. 60 points in 3.5sec is 17.14HF. Lets say you reload if 0.8 seconds and you skip it, 60-10 is 50pt in 2.7sec is now 18.51HF BTW, I'm only discussing this point out the rules a broken. There is no definition of reload, mandatory reload, etc that clearly define this. There needs to be one. Better yet I think most classifiers would benefit from being re-written to require a reload between first and last shot instead of specific when it needs to be done, but thats me.

1) magazine did come from the belt, just a while ago. Its not as if it was not originally on the belt, so I wouldn't worry about that one. Other wise clearing a jam by first removing the mag and retaining it and then re-inserting it would also be against the rules. 2) So .. if I drop the mag all the way to the ground, find I have no more then pick it up again, then it is ok? How is that different then looking at my belt first, removing the mag and putting it back in, instead of first dropping it? Of course, I don't think the rules really make sense, and I've quite trying to make them make sense. Also, what if I took it out of the gun, put it in my pouch and then took it back out and and put in the gun? Of course all of this is somewhat silly, because we point of mandatory reloads (which aren't defined as far as I know) is to keep the classifiers "fair" while testing a skill set. Some one who had a jam and to clear it and reload ahead of time has already flunked the classifier for his skill level so you can punish them some more but it seems pointless.

For a different opinion, Gale McMillan had the exactly opposite view on barrel break in: http://www.snipercountry.com/Articles/Barrel_breakin.asp I think just shoot the thing and don't worry about it.

Mine moves a very tad, but not as much as yours. I would say it is the roll pin to frame fit? Try a larger roll pin?

So I've read this entire thread and frankly I'm confused as to what you are trying to acomplish. Reading the first post, I'm assuming this is really the motivation for it: If that is the problem you are trying to solve, why not just pre-assign stages a different point value? The MD can make that determination far quicker then trying to figure out targets points, considering unusual ways of shooting the stage, option targets, and introducing a WHOLE new way to game the stages for people with pocket protectors and wrist calculators. If you don't think each stage should be worth 100pt and then simply make some be worth less.

1) I also can't require the competitor to be able to read, thus paper might be too much. That is a bit of an extreme but so is telling me that people don't have cellphones, can you even buy non-smart phones now without considerable effort? I trust them to run around with $3000 firearm but I can't trust them to use a phone? Look, I know we have some older folks and some non-technical folks, but the world keeps marching forward and we need to look forward not backwards. If you really REALLY want to, have an RO copy the scores to a piece of paper for the shooter at a major match. 2) Paper doesn't a provide a way to poll from a central location either. Feel free to deploy wifi on range if you want that. 3) And if you can have wifi on the range, thats awesome, on at least one of the ranges I use we don't even have power on the range, nevermind multi node coverage of multiple acres with wifi.

I think we should use mud tablets. Once the score is scratched on them, we can have everyone take a picture with their camera, let them set in the Sun, and then have the stats folks read them back and add them with an abacus. This is has the additional advantage of allowing us to be ADA compliant for stats folks with weak eye sight, they can just feel the tablets. Really the only issue is the availability of Nooks. Everything else has a solution. Ideally if USPSA wants to spend money it would be in contacting a hardware vendor and specing out a tablet that uses epaper AND bluetooth, order them in enough quantity to make the price viable, and then resell them to clubs. Heck you can have IDPA/USPSA/3GN/SASS/etc get together and split the costs. Once you have bluetooth in the device you can just have the shooters pull a copy of their scores directly from the stage device, without having to worry about wifi on the range.

You know what I'm gonna say next, right? If I'm having a bad stages I should just trip, look stunned for a bit and get a reshoot? BTW, I don't disagree with you, I'm just playing devils advocate.

I think is people are bleeding you stop them, sure. The questions is, is it a reshoot? Lets look at it a different way, shooter runs too fast, slips and eats a face-full of gravel. He does this without breaking the 180, pointing the gun at themselves or anything else. The are bleeding from a few places. Is it a reshoot? I mean sure, as an RO I'll stop them to make sure they are ok and because I've stopped them they get a reshoot, but lets say this happens at the nationals, and what could have been a trashed stage ends up winning the Cadillac. Now what?