Brian B

My clip carrier rack is 4.5 by 14 inches and high enough to stack 5 clips. There are 2 rows of 7 dowels where the center two dowels have holes drilled near the top to string a small handle through at the top center point of the balance of a full rack. The handle makes it very easy to move the rack in and out of my range bag at to my work table. It carries 60 clips which is good enough for a practice and a competition. I used to use a plastic coffee bin in my range bag but this always guaranteed a bent clip. Now my clips live on the carrier rack. Adding ammo to the moon clip and removing the spent shells had been an annoyance until I found the BMT mooner which is amazingly fast for both functions. I have one each for my S&W models 610 and 627, I highly recommend the BMT mooner. http://www.bmtequipped.com/products.php

My clip carrier rack is 4.5 by 14 inches and high enough to stack 5 clips. There are 2 rows of 7 dowels where the center two dowels have holes drilled near the top to string a small handle through at the top center point of the balance of a full rack. The handle makes it very easy to move the rack. It carries 60 clips which is good enough for a practice and a competition. I used a plastic coffee bin in my range bag but this always guaranteed a bent clip. Now my clips live on the carrier rack. Adding ammo to the clip and removing the spent shells has been an annoyance until I found the BMT mooner which is amazingly fast for both functions. I have one each for my S&W models 610 and 627, I highly recommend the BMT mooner. http://www.bmtequipped.com/products.php

Latech15, you want to feel what.....? There seems to be some curiosity regarding trigger pulls.... Please remember how heavily modified my revolvers are and the need to use only Federal ammo. refer to this forum thread : "I run mine at 6 lbs to keep some consistency with my heavier 617. Same rebound spring my 617 has puts my 625/627's at ~4 1/2 lbs. Radically lightened hammers are necessary. Shortened firing pin spring (on FMFP guns). Rebound springs get replaced. Some replace main springs some bend/recontour the stock spring. I modify Wolff reduced power main springs. Definitely requires some relearning with really light DA pulls. That's why mine stay 6ish+ lbs. Randy Lee Apex Tactical Specialties has them running reliabley under 3 lbs. More good info on this type thing can be found here: Brian Enos's Forums... Maku mozo! -> Revolver Forum" At: http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-smithing/121233-revolver-double-action-trigger-pull-weights.html Yes I want and get a very light 2.5 lb pull on my IPSC / USPSA S&W 610; I also shoot PPC and there is a minimum 3.5 lb pull on our revolvers. Everyone gets tested every competition. I use a S&W 586 which has been thoughly modified: heavy 6 in. barrel, Nill grips, new innards...Imagine 45 guys showing up all with triggers on DA revolvers just a hair above 3.5 lb pull? (Pounds not kilos). Most have removed the hammer spur so do not shoot SA. Remember, most trigger pull weights (revolvers and pistols) are heavy because they are designed by litigation lawyers. Whenever someone tries my 610 in single action the all say "Wow!" at the .5 lb hair trigger. it keeps me super accurate with the distant big poppers at the back end of the COF with quick one shot knockdowns.

Hi, Be carefull of the "higher end " ego trap. I've owned Mercedez, Porches, Jags, a 1996 Impalla SS,4 Suburbans and my favorite was the Impala. When it comes to the shooting sports it is much the same. I use my 610 in IPSC/USPSA with Hearthco clips on a speed e rack and a BMT moonclip loader and fiber optics on the front and rear sights ( red green red) and an Apex competition extended firing pin and a Trausch grip (Paris France) and a Hogue long cylinder release. I shoot 180 grain .40s&w fmj on Federal primers to make major PF. All the springs have been replaced and the cam faces stoned by my gunsmith. DA pull is 2.5 pounds and SA is .5 pounds. The 6.5 inch barrel makes for a very helpfull sight radius for medium and far distance plates and popers; it also keeps muzzel flip to almost nil resulting in super tight and fast double taps. The N frame makes it difficult to notice any recoile with .40s&w ammo. ( however full 10mm ammo kicks like a 44magnum ) I've been shooting IPSC/USPSA 17 years and own guns and shot in Open, Production, Single Stack and Revolver. I also compete in open three gun with a Bennelli and AR-15 (both are super tricked out). While I will continue to shoot three gun matches as they become available, I have decided that my S&W 610 is my most favorite gun ever and will continue with it in competition for many years to come. As always, it is the shooter ( driver? ) that makes the difference, not the equipment. Have fun and good shooting.

This a late post to this ... I have fiber optic front and rear sights on my S&W models 617 and 610. Red, Green, Red. They make my accuracy in practice (617 + 610) and my competition (610) in IPSC / USPSA very much stronger than steel sights. I highly recommend them. While there are several on the market these are the ones I use: http://www.cylinder-slide.com/index.php?app=ccp0&ns=prodshow&ref=CS0401SET Stay safe and have fun Brian

Hi Joe, You are making a transition between USPSA and STEEL CHALLENGE so there are important differences between the two regarding failure to engage and misses : USPSA / IPSA: 9.5.9 If a competitor fails to engage (shoot at) each target in a course of fire with at least one round, the competitor shall incur one procedural penalty for each target not engaged as well as the appropriate penalties for misses. If the maximum available scoring hit on an IPSC paper target is five (5) points, each procedural penalty shall be minus ten (-10) points. Steel challenge: - All misses (primary targets left un-hit once the stop plate has been struck) will be scored with a three-second penalty each. I shoot a S&W 610 revolver in USPSA / IPSC and I think I reload while moving at 3 seconds using Hearthco moonclips on a speed e rack. Here is a guy reloading standstill in less than 2 seconds? ( my gear is the same as his) Therefor with a lot of dry fire practice you can improve your reload times to make it worth your while to reload faster than the miss penalty of 3 seconds? Stay safe and have fun Brian (RO for IPSC)

Hi Biloxi Yes you are right about the inability of the stock grips to accommodate the strong recoil. I quickly bought a JM grip specials and they provided no relief from the brutal treatment. ( with respect to JM his hands are twice as large as mine, and appear larger than most people) So I replaced them with: http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product4_750001_750051_765464_-1_758003_757843_757837_ProductDisplayErrorView_N These manage recoil very well however they are bulky. ($36 from Smith). I shoot USPSA/IPSC with my S&W 610. I found this review about Trausch grips and knew it would be the answer; I've ordered them for my S&W models 610, 627, 22 classic of the 1917 in 45 apc., and Ruger Security Six. (about $40 each) http://www.gunblast.com/Trausch.htm The personal service from Trausch was excellent and the shipment was made in 24 hrs. I also shoot PPC with a heavy barrel S&W 586 using soft power 38 special waddcutters therefor recoil isn' t an issue, weight is. Therefor I use a Nill grip ($450 from Germany) which is very long and solid to provide a firm grasp with both hands. Cheers Brian

Thanks, Yes it is 2.5 lbs DA and .5 Lbs SA as per my instructions: "smooth as butter". Cheers Brian

Smith is making the model 610 again. I bought my S&W 610 last year new: 6.5 inch from a dealer in British Columbia Canada. My Montreal Québec Canada dealer has 7 on order due in May / June 2012. Most of these are pre-sold. The 610 is faily rair here regardless. The government prohibits us from buying any firearm with a barrel of 4 inches or less therefor we have no access to the S&W 625. Apparently Smith stopped making the 5 inch 625 two years ago. I use my 610 in IPSC/USPSA with Hearthco clips on a speed e rack and a BMT moonclip loader and fiber optics on the front and rear sights ( red green red) and an Apex competition extended firing pin and a Trausch grip (Paris France) and a Hogue long cylinder release. I shoot 180 grain .40s&w fmj on Federal primers to make major PF. All the springs have been replaced and the cam faces stoned by my gunsmith. DA pull is 2.5 pounds and SA is .5 pounds. The 6.5 inch barrel makes for a very helpfull sight radius for medium and far distance plates and popers; it also keeps muzzel flip to almost nil resulting in super tight and fast double taps. The N frame makes it difficult to notice any recoile with .40s&w ammo. ( however full 10mm ammo kicks like a 44magnum ) I've been shooting IPSC/USPSA 17 years and own guns and shot in Open, Production, Single Stack and Revolver. I also compete in open three gun with a Bennelli and AR-15 (both are super tricked out). While I will continue to shoot three gun matches as they become available, I have decided that my S&W 610 is my most favorite gun ever and will continue with it in competition for many years to come. Have fun and good shooting.

You have an excellent revolver and should expect top performance. User maintenance does go beyond just cleaning. Consider keeping the gun flat, removing the grip and side plate and verify its not crudded up? If so then spray with Break Free, wipe and repeat until clean. There is little need to disassemble. 1) Is your main spring tension screw loose? if so tighten it and add blue lock tite to it. 2) are your moonclips perfectly flat? Otherwise some rubbing may occur as well as some FTF 3) use soft Federal Primers only 4) I use an Apex competition extended firing pin in all my smiths: https://apextactical.com/store/product-info.php?pid2.html If you may be uncomfortable with this then get it into the hands of a professional, full time, gunsmith who has revolver experience. It should be a simple, inexpensive fix. Good shooting

http://www.4wheelguns.com/image/ICORE%20Retro%20speed%20loader%20holder.jpg You may consider this as a holder for your Safariland level lll speedloaders At: http://www.4wheelguns.com/ICORE.html

Hi Stephen, Please also consider how fast you can load and eject ammo the length of 38sp/357 compared to the shorter 40s&w or 45apc? My experience is twice as slow and twice as challenging. My wife enjoys her moonclips in her PC S&W627 8 round revolver. I compete in USPSA/IPSC Revolver class with the 10mm S&W610 using 40cal making MPF with 180 grain FMJ on Hearthco moonclips mounted on a Seed E Rack clip holder. The speed of reloading your revolver is essential to being competitive, moonclips help a lot. The shorter ammo just pop in and out without hanging but it is easy to see the slow slide the long 38sp/357 brass needs to take just to get seated. I also compete in PPC using a Ruger security six charging with safariland loaders therefore I know your issues well. I do not believe putting moonclips on a 38sp/357 revolver will be much faster than speedloaders. There is a reason the level lll speedloaders have a spring to push in the rounds: they are too long to simply drop in. My wife has to push her clips in with her thumb. You could be cost sensitive to the 610 or 625 at this time, if so keep your revolver as is: using Safariland level lll speedloaders, keep a small stick on a spring loaded lanyard attached to your belt for those times a shell hangs in the cylinder ( better than a finger nail), polish your cylinders and clean them between stages, (at the safety table) keep your ammo correctly sized and do a good job cleaning and polishing your brass. I practice daily loading clips into my revolver and dry firing, regardless of equipment, practice is the most important advice I can offer.

$37 directly from S&W: Model 500 Impact Absorbing Hogue Square Butt Conversion Grips http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product4_750001_750051_765464_-1_758003_757843_757837_ProductDisplayErrorView_N I have them on my model 610 and I do recommend them for USPSA/IPSC competition, excellent recoil management, moon clip friendly

My Hearthco clips were being walked on by my fellow shooters when they went up to patch.... A big expensive PITA. I trash talked the Hearthco clips as being too flimsy and Mr. Hearth offered my money back. I was very impressed with his professional integrity and quality standards. I had bought a bunch of competors clips only to find that they often lost a bullet out of the clip 2-3 times per competition . So I kept my expensive/ highest quality Hearthco clips, use them for competitions only and recruit friends to quickly pick up my clips befor the cromagnons stomp all over them again. Thanks to Hearthco for a fine product, they are worth every cent.

Hi Dave, I'm an IPSC RO and: in revolver class you must reload after 6 shots otherwise you are penalized a procedural, therefore a revolver with more than 6 rounds creates an unneccesary jeapordy for the competitor. I use a S&W 610 shooting .40 to make major PF. My wife made it clear she will never compete so she chose for herself a PC S&W 627. It is impractical for USPSA/IPSC, IDPA and PPC but she really enjoys shooting it when she accompanies me to the range when I practice. I'm a lucky man... Cheers Brian

Hi Chris Your simple question appears to be four-inch versus 6 inch benefits? That answer appears to be sight radius. The longer the site radius the better the control is of accuracy on distant targets. I shoot a 61/2 inch Smith model 610 in USPSA. I put on fiber optic front and rear sights from cylinder and slide. They greatly improve my site picture with bright three dots, red green red. Your clips and holder may have more to do with your speed than caliber selection. A round becoming dislodged from the clip while loading or a clip falling from the holder while moving/ running between stages is a PITA. I use what the pros use: Hearthco clips and a Speed E Rack holder and don't have any of these equipment problems. Cheers Brian

Hi Jester, .38 short colts may not work well for USPSA/IPSC Diameter. Overall length .38 Short Colt .357 in (9.1 mm) .762 in (19.4 mm) 1.052 in (26.7 mm) Rimmed Barnes 1997, p. 274 .38 Long Colt .357 in (9.1 mm) 1.030 in (26.2 mm) 1.320 in (33.5 mm) Rimmed Barnes 1997, p. 274 .38 Special .357 in (9.1 mm) 1.16 in (29 mm) 1.550 in (39.4 mm) Rimmed Barnes 1997, p. 274 357 Mag. (9.1 mm) (40 mm) 9 mm. (9.93 mm). (29.69 mm) .40 S&W (10 mm). (28.8 mm) The neck and rim diameters of the 38 short colt are not strong enought to maintain 35,000 psi, (were they not originally designed using black powder?) It may be 50% shorter than a 357 magnum and 30% shorter than a 38 sp (and a 9mm para) but there is insuffient volume to accommodate enough powder to make major. Your Ruger can take a powerful beating so your casing most probably will rupture spraying hot gasses out the back side of the cylinder onto your gripping hands with painfull effect. ICORE shooters could use the 38 shot colt and must make a minimum power factor of 120 wheras USPSA/ ISPC has a minimum power factor of 160 for major ( using the same formula). This is 30% more power requirement. The minimum power factor for minor is 125 for USPSA/IPSC, which is great if your shooting 9mm in my lightweight Ruger SR9 ( I'm the reigning Canadian champion in PPC DUTY PISTOL MARSKMAN CLASS and I did it with my 100% reliable SR9 , but I digress ...) The important suggestion here is to shoot major power factor whenever you can; you get more points for the same hits otherwise you'll have to slow down to be more accurate. I also suggest a 6 inch barrel; the Longer sight radius is a big boost to accuracy. My S&W 610 has a 6.5 inch barrel. Keep it simple and reload your strong 357 magnum brass for major and have fun. You can tune it down from 375: 125g bullet x 1,450fps/1,000 = 181 power factor to just above 160 PF. Get real good with the gear you have now then trade up when your ready. Cheers Brian

Hi Jester A lot of us have a gut so I wear suspenders as do many of my shooting friends. They are a fashion accessory ....and they do give us access to our clips and loaders. Remember now I'm in excellent shape.... And round is a shape.... Here are some leather suspenders that look good also: http://www.fortwestern.com/3d-mens-tooled-leather-suspenders/p/402337/ Cheers Brian

Hi Jester These are what I was talking about: Model COMP III Speedloader Injection-molded Spring-driven to offer the fastest weapon reloading device Large-knob frame offers maximum grip clearance Available in Black only http://www.safariland.com/DutyGear/product.aspx?pid=COMP%20III What I mean by friction is that a .40s&w has an overall length of 28.8mm whereas a .357 has an overall of 40mm thus making your ammo 39% longer. You are right when you say a good push on the ejection rod should clear the cylinder. The rod does have more travel when ejecting shorter ammo. Inserting the rounds with the spring loaded safariland comp lll speedloaders is an excellent alternative to the moonclip route. Here is a YouTube vid showing the spring aggressively snaps all the rounds into the cylinder: Ps the half naked guy is not me! Brownells sells them for $20 each and you'll need 7, You'll need 7 speedloader holders at $12 each: http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=12496/Product/SPEEDLOADER-HOLDER And 3 reloading block trays at $25 each: http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=12499/Product/SAFARILAND-SPEEDLOADER-LOADING-BLOCKS This is $299 excluding a belt which I assume you have. TK custom will machine your Ruger for $100 http://www.moonclips.com/content/example-machine-cylinder.htm You'll need at least 50 moonclips, consider this is the big money because they are not your standard size, $60 per pack of 10, $300 http://www.tkcustom.com/cart/shopdisplayproducts.asp?id=126&cat=%2E38+Special+%26+%2E357+Magnum+%2D+Ruger You'll need a moonclip holder rack, magnetic to hold a variety of moonclips $100 http://www.gsiinternational.com/6-shot-Moonclip-rack_8_4236_8584.html A moonclip loading tool , I've tried them all and this is the best! BMT MOONER $80: http://www.bmtequipped.com/products.php Therefor Your route of machining your Ruger will cost $580 excluding tax and shipping. Consider shooting with what you have ( comp ll ?) for a season and delay spending money now building your experience ( and dry fire practice). You may get stuck with the custom made moonclips for the Ruger. Perhapse a S&W 625 used/new buy/trade could save you $ in the long run? You could save big money on moonclips using EZ rimz 15 for $30: http://www.ezmoonclip.com/page_4.htm These are polycarbonate so a better moonclip holder may be this: http://magnumshooterssupply.com/James-Austin-Moon-Clip-Server-JAUSTIN001.htm Jester, you mention being embarassed in front of other shooters as a newbie to USPSA, don't even think about it, we were all there at the beginning and are always glad to have a fresh face to share our sport with. Focus on having fun and not getting DQed. Go slow because slow is fast without mikes. I've been shooting IPSC/USPSA for 15 years in open, production and revolver. Revolver is my most favorite, good shooting!

Jester, you have the right gun but the wrong caliber. Please also consider how fast you can load and eject ammo the length of 38sp/357 compared to the shorter 40s&w or 45apc? My experience is twice as slow and twice as challenging. My wife enjoys her moonclips in her PC S&W627 8 round revolver. I compete in USPSA/IPSC Revolver class with the 10mm S&W610 using 40cal making MPF with 180 grain FMJ on Hearthco moonclips mounted on a Seed E Rack clip holder. The speed of reloading your revolver is essential to being competitive, moonclips help a lot. The shorter ammo just pop in and out without hanging but it is easy to see the slow slide the long 38sp/357 brass needs to take just to get seated. I also compete in PPC using a Ruger security six charging with safariland loaders therefore I know your issues well. I do not believe putting moonclips on a 38sp/357 revolver will be much faster than speedloaders. There is a reason the speedloaders have a spring to push in the rounds: they are too long to simply drop in. My wife has to push her clips in with her thumb...and you will have to also if you take the route you suggest of milling your Ruger for clips. You seem cost sensitive to the 610 or 625 at this time, if so keep your revolver as is: using Safariland level lll speedloaders, keep a small stick on a spring loaded lanyard attached to your belt for those times a shell hangs in the cylinder ( better than a finger nail), polish your cylinders and clean them between stages, (at the safety table) keep your ammo correctly sized and do a good job cleaning and polishing your brass. I practice daily loading clips into my revolver and dry firing, regardless of equipment, practice is the most important advice I can offer.

In addition to adding blue loctite to the hammer spring retaining screw I added: APEX COMPETITION FIRING PIN KIT https://apextactical.com/store/product-info.php?pid2.html I use a 610 in USPSA / IPSC revolver class with Hearthco clips (the best because they stay flat, bent clips cause duds, are your clips flat?) I load my clips very fast with BMT mooners: http://www.bmtequipped.com/products.php good luck

I have one for my 610 in .40 and another for my 627 in .38spc. Both work without fault and significantly faster to load and unload clips than my prior equipmente. I use Hearthco clips for my 610: do not underestimate the power of the clip... they are the strongest and most reliable clips I own and use them for USPSA/IPSC . The Hearthco clips are worth every penny. I found out the hard way using cheaper clips when they started loosing ammo during a stage. BMT mooners make loading the stiff Hearthco clips a dream.

I have the best fiber optics on my front and rear sights on my 617 and on my 610 Smith and Wesson revolvers: http://www.cylinder-slide.com/index.php?app=ccp0&ns=catshow&ref=SWsights Enjoy

Your simple question appears to be four-inch versus 6 inch benefits? That answer appears to be sight radius. The longer the site radius the better the control is of accuracy on distant targets. I shoot a 61/2 inch Smith model 610 in USPSA. I put on fiber optic front and rear sights from cylinder and slide. They greatly improve my site picture with bright three dots, red green red. Here is a similar product of front and rear fiber optics for your Ruger. http://www.williamsgunsight.com/gunsights/pistol.htm