spook

Vince, with "one division" I meant one division next to open, standard and modified. Don't get me wrong, I believe you over the guy I "heard it from" (and I know that's not a valid argument at all ), but that doesn't change the way I feel about production class. The rules state double action guns. Then how come I can compete with my very single action P7, that has a trigger that breaks at 3.5 pounds? Of course, David would have scored very good with any type of gun, but that's not the point. He might have scored even better if everyone had "similar" gear. What I think is disturbing in production class, is that most people can look at the list and think: "hey, I could do BETTER if I had that gun (not: I could be world champion if I had that gun)". And of course skill and practice are the most important thing in IPSC, but I think that in production class, equipment should NOT be an issue AT ALL. And when I look at the rules and the list, I think capacity is the biggest factor in picking a gun from the list. That's why I thought a rule like in USPSA would be a nice idea. And David will still be winning, and people who can't shoot will still suck with that rule. The only difference will be that more "credit" (read: less whining) goes to the shooter. Jason, I think you are right. If IPSC would ever have a class like that, it would be very, very specific in the rules department. JFD, amen

Vince, from what I heard, there were two guys that used Para's and converted "factory" .40 mags, that held 20 or 21 rounds. I know that David shot a box-glock. What I'm trying to say is that production is not really beginner-friendly, in that perspective. (You cannot "shoot what you have already" and be competitive if you have a low cap gun). There are just so many rules I don't get (or that don't make sense) in IPSC, (like the .40 for major rule) and so few rules that (I think) would make this game so much more diverse. I wish there would be just one class that had no equipment race going on. 'Cause what'll happen if gun company X will produce a "production gun" that holds 28 rounds? People will buy that gun, because it will give you an advantage. And all this time I thought that in production class it wasn't about equipment giving you an advantage. The only advantage you get from shooting your production gun in production class is that everyone gets a minor score. And believe me, in 5 years it will be a 2nd Standard class, where people shoot minor.

OK, so how about 13, 14 or 15 rounds? The reason I'm asking this is because a couple of guys showed up at the WSXIII with Para LDA's using 21 round mags. The winner shot a 17+1 round setup. Now tell me how is average Joe using his 15 shot beretta going to compete with that on those 16 round stages that include steel? I'm not saying that this game can be played with 10-rounders only. All I'm saying is that it would be cool to have ONE autoloader class in IPSC (not USPSA) that has a rule that says you can only load an x number of rounds. Right now, when I look at the approved list, I see that most models have round capacity as their major disadvantage. Which is a shame, I think.

I'm not saying that there should be laws in other countries like the one in the US, where you can only buy ten-rounders. I'm saying: Wouldn't it be cool if the number of rounds you can LOAD, would be fixed in prod.Class? (ala revo class) . This way, everyone can compete with what they have already. This was the original concept of pro.class, but the concept turned out to be an illusion. If you want to be competitive in pro.class, you HAVE to buy a gun with at least 16 round capacity. And that rules out a lot of guns on te approved list. So, high cap mag LAWS begone. Production class max round RULE welcome? That's my question. Patrick, this would only apply to production class. Duane, I agree, but there's no lim-10 in IPSC. And to be honest, I would really like it if there was someting like it. Erik, yeah, my point exactly.

Wouldn't that be a good idea? 10 (or some other fixed number of rnds.) you can load in production guns. If IPSC would adopt the USPSA rule, you would probably take a big chunk out of the "equipment race" that has started in IPSC prod.class. (see world shoot 13). Whaddayathink?

Julien, we have em in Holland, but they don't sell guns. As a matter of fact they don't sell anything worth of interest. I wish they would sell guns. I would get there more often

So, I'll have to place my ex-girlfriend in the classifieds then?

ROTFLMFAO, You guys never saw the sister. Lemme put it this way: I would scream for help. As for the mother, man, you guys don't even wanna know

LOL, the sweater and the poitical jokes cracked me up

And I just realised that I made an ass out of myself by posting in a thread that has been dead for a week

Useless European guns!!! Why you.... Just because we started making very cheap guns out of plastic with horrible triggers and alloy framed guns that break every 200 rnds. doesn't make them useless. You can always throw them at your target They're light so you can throw them farther. And if that doesn't work you can always get the only good one out there. The HK P7M13 (what do you mean biased).

tightloop, you couldn't do that, cause then you eventually will carry 2 guns at a certain time

Yeah, those situations make you see that what you have now is worth sooo much. Living by the moment is always a good thing, but unfortunately not always possible. People tend to slip and focus on the stuff they don't like. But man, what an awful story. I guess you just never really know when your time comes.

LOL. Man, to bad the girls wouldn't let you "join" the relationship

For Revolver A S&W 625-2 , model of 1988 (the first run). Homemade velcro inner+outer belt Homemade holster Cali. Comp. Works Clipholders For production H&K P7M13 9mm Safariland pouches 771-style Sickinger leather holster (I love old-school) 2 Dillon SDB's in 9mm & .45ACP Clothes: Adidas Trail shoes Pants are Fjällraven (Swedish) Sleeved T + Shortsleeved T The lucky socks + underwear I never wash (just kiddin') My lucky Red Sox or Indians cap Dillon Bag Black Peltor green muffs

Siglady, what you said to me is what I heard from a close friend of mine, who got dumped after a 4 year relationship. He's now 25 and it has been almost 5 years later. He's still not OK with it and says the thing he should have done is exactly what you say. Don't isolate yourself and do good things (which for me is an excuse to shoot even more than I do now:)) ) I'm just 24 so I still have a whole lifetime to do all the cool things that I like. Dave, you cracked me up. Thanks, I needed that. Patrick, yeah, that sucks. She told me once that if this relationship wouldn't work, she would do the same thing. Should have listened back then. This was also a university relationship. What's up with the women over there? Thanks again everyone. It makes me feel good.

Smoney, yeah, 1 step is too short for an extra reload. Surprises me as well that most revo guys don't trust their own shooting skills and reload to finish a stage sometimes if they don't have to.

You could go for ebonics: I BE Shooting, or since or friendly host has the calm meditational ways of the late Bob Ross, perhaps "The Joy of Shooting". Then you would have to change your signature to "Happy shooting and God bless", though. But all lame jokes aside, I think something classic (Brian Enos' Shooting Forums) and not too witty would fit these forums best. Like THE Book, it's just timeless stuff. Nothing fancy or contemporary, and that's also why it's still so cool today. Just my 2 cents.

Wow, thanks you guys. At times like these I can see these forums are not for "just" shooting problems. Believe me, your replies already made me feel much better. Paul an TIS, yeah, I was afraid there are no real shortcuts. Time and positive thinking must heal the wounds. tightloop, man, your story really put my situation in perspective. Thanks for the lines. Bjorn

Same here in Holland. You can do anything you like over here (mostly things I don't like). Somehow, they just figured that a legal red light district and drugs for everyone give less problems than a couple of guys who take their sport seriously. I mean, putting some rules out there for gun control is a good thing, but why do the serious sports guys always have to pay? And what really p*sses me off is guys who legally own a gun and shoot people with it, which seems to be a common thing around the world these days. Those guys have no idea how much damage they inflict on the sportshooters. Even if it's just one incident with a legal gun against 1000000 with illegal firearms, governments around the world just pick on the sportshooter. That is just wrong.

Don't know if this fits here, 'cause it's not so much that I hate this situation, but it just hurts like hell. Getting dumped after 21/2 years by someone you still care about a lot sucks, and that is a major understatement. Does anyone have any tips on speeding up the proces of "getting over it"?

SIFast, I wouldn't mind about that. Put ten rounds in for USPSA and if you shoot IPSC in some foreign country, the government won't be there to bother you. Tom, i think the fixed barrel and the fact that I can easily duplicate the 1" group 30 yard factory test target makes up for the short sight radius (which by the way isn't that short at all). Reloads are cool, cause you can shoot to slide lock and not have a slower reload. I think the fact that there's no magic gun makes production a nice division, cause you can choose what you WANT to shoot in stead of shooting what everybody else is shooting (1911 or Glock .40's). Cheers Oh BTW, you could also put a spacer in the mag to make sure it only holds ten. (Edited by spook at 9:16 pm on Oct. 30, 2002)

Vince thanks. I've been to England for a couple of days, so no time to reply. But for me that is absolutely great news

It's in the approved list, so I guess that would make it legal. I saw your post on parkcities (at least i think that was you). To be sure, I would ask the RO's on the IROA FAQ. The P7 is a nice choice, but know what you're doing. Throwing hard to find $100 mags around on concrete floors or mud can be a bit frustrating.

This is not the way to get rid of your competition. You damn near gave me a heart attack.