LikesToShoot

I'm working up a load for my M&P Pro with 180gr S&S bullets and Titegroup. Today's chrono results are 155PF from 3.6 gr TG and 173 PF from 4.0 TG (1.130" COL). Hopefully I can test a 3.9gr load tomorrow. No smoke from the TG with the HiTech bullet coating S&S has, so I'd expect the same from BBI and Bayou Bullets. (I shoot 147gr Bayou bullets over 2.8gr of Clays with good results.)

Really good tips about the flair and the crimp. Jacketed usually run about .001" smaller diameter so a little extra on the flair will help with seating and cut back on shaving the bullets coating. I back off the crimp die, pull the handle (550) and then tighten the crimp die until it touch's the round. Then I release the handle, pulling the round out of the die, then turn the die down another 1/8 turn and pull the handle again. Once the round is crimped I chamber check it in my barrel and add a little more crimp if needed.

+1 2.8 Clays under 147 Bayou bullets out of my M&P make 134 PF. YMMV.

I like the BB 147 over 2.8gr of Clays for a 134PF in my M&P Pro. YMMV. A couple other guys I know like the 147gr in their M&P's.

CED would have made a nicer video if they would have removed all the "Made In China" boxes from the back drop. Sorry, I know we all buy their stuff but it kinda' stinks. being reminded of where our money goes. Maybe that's a good thing. Let's see a "Made In USA" product that we all want to own. Certainly this can be achieved. Steve

Are you needing to meet any power factor or just striving for accuracy? As mentioned, just call Donnie and get some sample packs, and recommendations. If no PF is needed, and you can get what you want out of a 140 gr, then you'll get an extra 800 bullets vs the 180 gr for about the same price.

I think you will be pleasantly surprised at the velocities you'll get with the coated bullets. Today I was testing some SNS 180 coated bullets and Titegroup in my M&P Pro w/KKM barrel. (I shot with Ryan and Jim at area 5 last weekend, great guys!) 4.0 gr was giving me 959 fps and 4.2 gr was at 983. I'll be dropping this down to 3.6 and 3.8 to see what happens. I'm loading at 1.130 for the M&P which basically just patterns instead of groups, at least in my hands. As long as I can get "A's at 25 yards I happy.

While this incident brought to light some need for verifying the RO's time keeping let's not give the scorekeeper a halo to wear. "Error's" can be made there as the targets are being scored and pasted. If you don't have a buddy watch him record targets as they're called out you can get hosed by him more than the RO.

Since you have a chrono why don't you load 5 each at 4.0, 4.2, 4.4, and 4.6? Shoot each group across your chrono at their own target to see how they group as well as their velocity. PF doesn't mean much if you don't have accuracy, IMHO. Yes, you must meet min. of course. When working up a load I like to use brass with the same head stamp , and once fired if possible, to reduce the variables. After that it's mixed range brass for all the local shooting.

Again, just like the video. His ran fine for a while and then he had issues. Do yourself a favor and try some other ammo. As for as needing to change out the spring and follower I say BULL! Once you get past 3 to 5K maybe you'll need to change out the spring. But the factory follower works just fine. I received a cool red anodized follower in a goodie bag once that I "knew would make my gun better", NOT. It negated my tube extensions round count addition. After adding a +2 extension I "knew I needed a better tube spring" so I bought a Wolff. Which I ended up cutting to a shorter length (due to it's thicker wire size) to make it work. Guess what? I dropped the thin wire factory spring and factory follower in and my 9 +2 tube extension and it runs just fine. Oh yeah, Mossberg factory springs were running about $3.00 each, last time I ordered them. So you can get the "return spring" for the bolt, "gas piston return spring" and the "magazine spring" all for under $10 plus shipping. (Again the last time I bought them, a couple years ago. And when I bought them I got three of each because they were so cheap.) Marketing is great. It convinces us into buying things we really don't need.

As mentioned, try some other ammo. Here's a video that drives the ammo point home.

I used to think it was always better to get closer but during a recent practice session I noticed my second and third runs were several seconds slower than the first. My shooting friend pointed out that I had ran forward on those two runs (trying to knock a few plates over) and it really killed my score. When I just stood there at my last shooting position and took the time for better front sight focus I was much better off than going to another shooting position. That little practice session changed my way of thinking. Sure, there will be times that I will move closer but not always.

Awesome points. I just finally started paying more attention to HF and this will help a lot.

Mark, I understand the drills and learning from them but why not worry about the Hit Factor? Thanks, Steve

Your gun is already "tuned" for cold weather it appears. There's no need to break the gun down as PRP shows. Just protect the frame with tape, card or whatever and reduce material off the over travel pad on the backside of the trigger. More (over) travel is better than not enough if it'll kill your gun when temps change. JMHO.

If it were me, I'd load a handful at a low power charge and chrono / group shoot them on a target to see how they worked. If every thing went well then I'd work up to a "pet load" for that projectile then load them up and use them for practice ammo. I came across a "good buy" for 6K of bullets that I wouldn't see again and found a load that worked pretty well, That bullet had an odd profile that caused me to need to load them really short for my chamber but I backed off the charge and ended up with some pretty good ammo at a bargain price. Be safe, and go slow.

Curious what kind of accuracy you were getting out of the M&P .40 with your loads at 25 yards. I'm also big on the importance of accuracy and I've been throwing around the idea of a M&P 40pro to shoot production with minor loads or limited with major. I've read a lot about the pro 9mm accuracy issues but not much about the .40. This is off hand at 25 yards over a chrono. The gun had been set up with my 40 to 9 conversion barrel and has loosely zeroed in using other 40 cal ammo. I'm sure I could have better groups if I adjusted it in and was warmed up a bit. Out a better shooters hands I'm sure things would have greatly improved also.

The plated bullets need just enough crimp to get rid of the "bell" you created for seating the bullet. Make sure your finished cartridge fits flush in the chamber of your barrel. (Field strip the gun and use your barrels chamber to make sure they fit OK.) Here's a helpful link for COL. http://www.czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=34225.msg189131#msg189131

Welcome, As mentioned, that's on the low end. Make sure that bullet clears the barrel and hit the paper before firing another round. I do hope you have at least one good loading manual, a Lyman's is a great one to start with. http://www.amazon.com/Lyman-Reloading-Handbook-49th-Edition/dp/B001FBFW6U You may want to try some heavier bullets, 124gr, 135gr and 147gr. They tend to be less "snappy" than the 115gr bullets. If might want to check out Hodgdon's website for load info. http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/ Good luck!

Thanks for the report. I was going to jump on the next Clay DoT I came across based on what I had read too. In your first sample why did you change the COL between the two powders? Was the brass, bullets and primers you used the same brand? Thanks again!

+1 Some people can get their guns to work by weakening the striker spring so they can run low recoil springs but then they often have to use only Fed. primers. When going for "low power factor" and "less recoil" some guns require weaker recoil springs, That works fine in Glocks but not so much with the M&P. If you want to make here happy give her a gun that works 100%. I'd save the money from springs and guide rod (very slight weight gain) and spend it on more ammo.

IMHO, accuracy is FIRST. I used to chase the "meet the low PF" game but if you can't hit the "A", "-0" at 25 yards who cares? "mikes" and "FTN's" WILL kill your score so low recoil means NOTHING. Working on your grip is a better way to control recoil than chasing the low PF load that many (me too) have gone after. Sure, you can load a "bunny fart" loads that groups really good and maybe have to change the springs to get the gun to run right, Add in that you "have" to use Federal primers to get that round to fire with the lighter striker / hammer springs. Yes, it's fun to beat your buddies at club match's but then you'll go ahead and sweat bullets if and when you have to chrono at a big match. All my ammo test are at 25 yards and fine tune later. I've run M&P's for a little while and in 40 Pro I like 165gr FMJ over 3.7 gr Clays for minor and 200gr over 4.6 Universal for major. These are my "pet loads" and work in "MY" gun. To maximize your time dry fire and look here: http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=191429

Try a magnet on you Tula ammo, brass. I've heard both the bullet and case are brass plated steel. What are your findings?

I don't use Bullseye but would like to offer a tip. When using that type of scale it can be hard measure small powder changes. I don't know what type of powder throw you are using but if you zero your scale then throw 10 charges in the pan and divide the results my 10 you'll have a better idea of what you're working with. Years ago I started loading using Lee dippers and this method help me out a lot. Tonight, using my digital scale and changing powders, I threw 5 in the pan, and multiplied by 2 then divided by 10.

You're on the right track. Just isolate it between the powder, primers or maybe moisture in your cases. I'd switch one component at a time and determine what the defect is. What powder are you using and is it in a plastic or cardboard container?