Bear1142

Guys, Not looking to start a war, just an idea. What do you think about eliminating revolver as a division, but roll it into Production division as a Class? To level the playing field, you would do two things. First, make the 8 round revolvers legal for Production. Second, allow the revolvers to make major PF. Now you'd have a situation where an 8 round revolver, scoring major, would be competing against a 10 round minor production pistol. Scoring Major would help offset the faster reload speed of the pistol and the 8 round neutral stages would certainly help the revolver shooters. There would still be a high revolver shooter, but the classes would go straight up revolver or semi. I think Jerry Miculek, shooting an 8 round, major revolver would have a serious chance at Production National Champion. This would cut down the divisions from 5 to 4 and create some pretty interesting matchups and be entertaining to watch. Erik

Kurt, I'm thinking about coming out for the RM3G in August and I was looking at the rules. I'm curious about how you measure the comps for Tactical Scoped class. Here's my issue. I use a Bushmaster Y-comp styled compesator. The diameter isn't an issue, but when standing alone the length is 3 1/4" long. Under a ruling in USPSA from John Amidon, comps are measured from the end of the barrel, which includes the 1/2" of threads under the comp. which brings the overall length of the comp down to 2 3/4". Is this the same procedure for your match? Thanks, Erik

This seems to be a new trend. Why wasn't senior and super senior eliminated? What criteria was used to keep these and eliminate Law and Military? Once again, somebody "forgot" to put it on the BOD agenda and decisions were made without any chance for input or discussion. When this happened with the new Tactical 3-gun division, it was stated that nobody got hurt or was prohibited from shooting because the new Division didn't exclude anybody. Apparently, this rationale doesn't apply to special catagories. So, what's the justification this time? Erik

Erik, I use 155 Montana Golds in my Glock 35 with N320 for a production load. I don't remember what the powder weight is off hand, I can get if for you if you are interested. I think I made a 140 PF at FGN this year. They run about 900 fps. It's a really good load through the Glock, but it might be a little sluggish to you in your slab side. I think it might be worth a try. Erik

Erik, I'm with you. I don't do one shot drills. I always fire two rounds to force me to call my shots and follow through. I feel it's a good way to work on multiple tasks in a single string of fire. Erik

SS, If you'd stop wearing the wife beater shirts and shave some of that armpit hair, you wouldn't have any drag Glad to hear the pad works for you. I'll have to check it out. I'm not against new innovations. If it works, I'll switch and give you all the credit. See you on Sat. Erik

I see that I am not alone in my suffering and I take comfort in all the kind words. Brothers in arms. Keep you heads up and fight the good fight. I intend on working harder this coming season than ever before. I will intend to cut a wide path of destruction (good or bad ) through the Local, Section, State, and Area matches, and ultimately, the Nationals. Always looking to the sidelines where my Glock and Open gun sit idle, not allowed to play in concert with my Limited gun, for inspiration. I tell them, fear not, your day will come. That day when a competitor can use all makes and models on that field of dreams where entry fees are low, thousands of competitors test their skills, and the prize tables are so large you'd need a golf cart to get from one end to the other. I say to all my clean and silent guns, you will not be forgotten. Wherever I go, I will always look to the A zone with thoughts of "Winning one for the Glocker" Turtle- I think I got fired last week, so yeah, I'm on the team. Erik

Bucky, Aside from the fact that somebody left the door to hell open and all the heat got out and made the '02 A8 FG match the second hottest match I think I ever shot, it was a great match. Seeing how there is no separate FG match this year and the increased popularity of Production, maybe it might be time to test the waters again in 2004 for another FG match. Maybe you should try a poll on the USPSA webpage and see if there is any interest. Although, I completely understand if you are not eager to go through all that again, but it was wishful thinking. I would try to push one down here, but we're doing an Area 6 3 Gun match again in May. I've submitted some stage designs, it will be a pretty good match. You guys should think about making the trip. Erik

I hate the fact there will be only one handgun Nationals. I'm not interested in getting into a debate about why it happened, I just don't like it. I shot my Glock 35 Production gun for the last time this past weekend. I shot all my remaining Production ammo and gave the gun a through cleaning. It will get packed away until next year. Hopefully, the Nationals format will change back to the two separate handgun Nationals like this year, but only time will tell. After a moment of silence, Scotish bagpipes sounded and the Glock was bagged, and placed in the back of the safe. Not to see the light of day until 2005 (Unless an Area Factory gun match miraculously appears).

To all interested, I shot with Rich at the FGN's this year and I had an opportunity to see his work up close. I wouldn't hesitate to recommend him if you are interested in getting some custom work on a XD. Erik

Roughly 25,000 rounds, split between pistol, rifle, & shotgun. If you want to get better, you gotta pull the trigger. Erik

Bill, You have received a lot of good advice and if you're still in the N. Va. area, there are a lot of good schools to check out. I've studied Aikido, Kyto-ryu Jiujitsu, and Russian Sambo along with enough different weapons to only hurt myself. For a discipline that will help your shooting, I would recommend Aikido. Continue to do your research, but I think you will find Aikido is the most adaptable art. It centers on simple redirection of energy principals; conservation and exploitation of energy. Aikido is known as a water technique. Everything flows, if you encounter resistance, you flow around it. Very interesting stuff. You'll still get all you takedown, throw, locks, breaks, etc.., but it involves a lot of balance and using your hips to generate energy. One thing I'll always remember is my Aikido instructor telling us, "If you break a sweat doing Aikido, you're doing something wrong." Good luck with your search and keep us posted on what you decide. Erik

Kurt, I applaude RM3G and SSM3G for their efforts and foresight. They truly are the first matches to blend the different styles into one match. Maybe some of the reason the other matches are failing is the lack of crossover from USPSA. While 3 gun is growing very fast, we (as a whole) are still much smaller than the pistol only shooters. I think there's room for everybody to play. I would just like to see the "Tactical" type matches open their doors to us. As you mentioned, some have. Most, whether active or not, have not. As far as reciprocity, It's pretty much still one way. If you wanted to shoot an USPSA match, all you had to do was remove the rifle scope and shoot irons. All your other equipment was legal. I don't think that was too much to ask compared to buying a new pistol and shotgun since the open guns were not allowed because their setups (scopes, comps, barrel porting, extended mags) were prohibited. I'm sure there are other considerations, like having secure holsters while crawing through some of Kyle's infamous mud, that would have to be worked out, but is would be possible if it was allowed. It's pretty clear this thread has run its course, but I, personally like the division, but would have liked some discussion about the equipment rules and whether it should be a Division or a Sub-Division prior to its enactment. Benny, I agree with you, I don't want to be involved in the day to day operations of USPSA and I don't think we need to be, but creating a new Division is a pretty big decision. You say everyone wanted this change and now we have it. My question to you is "How do you know?" Was a poll taken? A questionaire sent out? We don't know what most wanted. In a quite informal poll around these parts, its about 50/50 on the decision to create a new division. From following your shooting career, I'm sure you are correct in your statement that it's what most shooter's wanted in your shooting circles, but what about USPSA as a whole? Maybe Flexmoney can put up a poll question? I'm sure the new Division will be supported, lets just find out for sure and in what form before we start making decisions. Erik

Arnie, Thanks for responding, I appreciate your take on the events. >how hard was it to include this on the BOD agenda? "Michael Voigt has stated that the omission of Tactical Rifle on the agenda was an oversight"- Okay, good enough. When Rob made the statement about having to vote in time to get the material to the printers, we were talking about the actual rules. I mis-interpreted his statement to mean the printers for the rule book and not the Front Sight. The reciprocity remark was more of a rhetorical question. I really don't see the other "Tactical" type matches allowing open class pistols and shotguns to compete in their matches. USPSA is going to create a class to include them, great. I don't think they will return the favor. Arnie, a conspiracy? C'mon. If it was, it was the weakest conspiracy I've ever seen. I don't think it was a conspiracy. There was no discussion on whether or not to add the division. That's the only problem I have. It was a procedural issue, not a content issue. Lcambre- I too, am glad the division was created. I intend on shooting in the new division at this years Nationals. I'm glad to see your going to give the Nationals another try. The matches have gotten much better. KurtM- If all this is about is a simple rule change, then why won't the SOF and North American 3 gun matches make the changes so USPSA members can compete with their open guns in their matches? I guess they don't want or need our support and our money isn't good enough for them. Benny- Hopefully you'll be right and it will bring more shooters to 3 gun, it was the process that I had issue with, not the content. You can't dilute the process just because it's something you support. Opps, wait a minute. Appendix BS in the rulebook states that "If you voice an opinion and Benny doesn't like it, you are required to 'get a life'. Failure to do so will result in one procedural penalty per day until you get on your knees and beg forgiveness". Sorry, refraining from any more comments. Erik

lukipsc, I have always found an excellent relationship between basketball and IPSC. A lot a quick, short, explosive movements, combined with high level of hand-eye coordination. Good cardiovascular work-out and a little bit of a mental game. Play some basketball on a regular occasion and you'll get better in IPSC. Erik

I would like to make some observations. Since when did rumors and kicking around ideas constitute proper notice? I heard some of the rumors myself, but many different ideas and formats were being contemplated and nothing had been presented as the predominant idea. If, as you say, the rumors were flying pretty hot and heavy, then how hard was it to include this on the BOD agenda? I also know the Area 7 & 8 directors were quite surprised and knew nothing about creating the new division prior to the BOD meeting. If the Area directors didn't know, how can the membership have known to contact their Area Directors? Rob Boundrie stated he voted for the new division, in part, because a decision HAD to be made right then, or else the rules wouldn't have made it to the printer in time for the new rulebook. SO WHAT! When the rules were adopted, you put them on the USPSA web page and let people download/print them and put them into the rulebook. Another observation, if this is a "preliminary" division and still subject to rule changes and approval, then why did Rob have to vote immediately? If one rule is changed then the rulebook will be incorrect. If this is "preliminary", why is the division listed on the application for the 2004 Nationals? Will all these crossover shooters flocking to the new divisions get their entry fees refunded if the new division is not approved? Are all of these crossover shooters going to join USPSA? Appendix A of the rulebook states you have to be a member of IPSC to compete in a Level III (Nationals) event. Are we going to give them a waiver on that rule? Will these crossover shooters now let us compete in their matches and create divisions for us to compete in? Will there be reciprocity? Many of you have taken the position that nobody is being hurt or excluded by the new division. I don't think that's entirely accurate. While no one is being excluded, the divisions are being diluted. Please don't misunderstand me, I agree with and support the new idea, but I would have liked to discuss some different formats prior to its creation. I don't think Tactical rifle needs to be a division. I think it should be a sub-division of limited, but if you want to discuss it, start another thread. As Mig pointed out to me this weekend, where is it going to end? How many more divisions are going to be added? What about the He-man division? Or how about a Cowboy Action division? SASS is the biggest and fastest growing shooting sport, why not create a division for them? They use 3 guns at every match. There is a process in place and it was "technically" followed, but the spirit of the process was completely ignored. Would someone please explain to me how the members of USPSA were nothing more than a speed bump in this process when; there was no listing of the topic on the BOD agenda, ALL Area Directors voted unanimously for the division, the new division equipment rules were implemented without discussion, its rules are being submitted to the printer for the new rulebook without approval, and the new division is on the 2004 3 gun application without approval? I'm not seeing how this is anything but a done deal. Let me finish by reiterating my support for the division. I think it is a good idea and it will help USPSA. What I take issue with is the process that brought about its creation. Erik

Let me clear up a one thing, I did NOT pick up the tighty whitey's in question. I think Carlos holds (bad pun) that honor. Now I know that the RO's attention should always be on the gun, but c'mon? Talk about losing your concentration. I have seen some wild s**t on a range, but that one is definitely top 3. IPSC G34- If you hang around Ralph long enough, you'll see some unbelievable things. I like to think of Ralph as the "Kramer" of USPSA. You just never know what he'll do next. Erik

Mig, Friends, Romans, Countymen, lend me your ears. I copied a setup that Mig came up with for 3 gun rifle, no...it's true. Many years ago, when 3 gun was in its infancy, Mig had many revolutionary ideas about setting up an AR for 3 gun. Many of his views were quite radical for the time and the soon scared the masses. His ideas were considered heresy by the Catholic Church and he was driven out. He took his revolutionary ideas to the Omish and he was shunned. He went to the Muslims, and was accepted as a brother, until they discovered he liked the other white meat, then he was run out. Finally, down on his luck, full of despair, he wandered into our midst. Our happy group of run & gun heretics, our politcally incorrect group that uses words like, tactical, shooting, confederation, upper A/B zones, and he was accepted for who he was. He flourished in the mazes of 40 rd. run & gun rifle stages with no shots over 10 yards and eventually attained God-like status. And I, one of his faithful disciples, spread his word as the gospel. Short barrel, light weight, AR's, with low powered optices are his word. Rolls of foam insulations, cut into pads are his pulpit. I thank the great Mig (or as his friends call him Miglit) every night and pray for the next 3 gun match to arrive. So I can meet new people and continue to spread the gospel according to Mig. In all seriousness, while it may not seem so, Mig and I are great friends and I owe much of what ever little success I have to him. His ideas and guidance in 3 gun have helped me tremendously over the years. Although he in not a top champion, or a recognized household name, he is a great resource for everything about AR's and 3 gun. I'm lucky he puts up with all my stupid questions and ideas. Kellyn- You're missing the point, the vibration is how I simulate my shooting on the move. Wow, talk about a thread drift, where's the moderator when you need him.

Berkim, FWIW, I shot a Glock 35 in 40 S&W with a standard recoil spring. I used a Montana Gold 155 gr. HP and N320. I got about 900 fps for a 139 PF. It shot pretty soft and tracked pretty well. I might do some minor tweaking in the future, but with only one nationals next year, I won't be pulling out the Production gun anytime soon. Erik

As Mig correctly pointed out, this is not a technical innovation. I guess it would be more appropriate to call it an ergonomic innovation, but apparently ergonomics don't apply to shooting. I guess Mig will be replacing the following items on his firearms because he'd place the same without them, ERGO pistol grips on his AR and AK, The GAPPER plug on his AR, The special contoured and stippled grip for his STI from Jim Shanahan, The home-made foam tubing cheek rest on his AR, The slide stop thumb rest on his Open gun, ...need I go on Mig? Erik

Jason, Just playin' with you. If you remember, I saw that reload at FLETC. Nah, I won't make Idaho, but I am going out to Reno. You should think about coming out. Joshua is doing fine, but to our dismay, has colic. We're getting through it as best we can, but I'm glad it happened on the second one. I don't think we would have had two if the first one was this tough. Are you going to travel to any matches? You should tag along with Phil and Turtle to some of the matches in North and South Carolina. Erik

Well, I'm certainly not above being the object of some good humor. Althought, I am reminded of certain historical moments in USPSA and how they are viewed now. 198(?)- The first compensator showed up. People laughed at it. Until a pistol with a comp. won the Nationals. Now you can't find an open gun without a comp. 1981(?) The first year TGO showed up with a 38 super instead of a 45. People laughed, until he won the Nationals. Then everybody had to have one. 19-(?) The year that BE showed up at the Bianchi cup with a dot scope. People laughed, until he won the Cup. Then everybody had to have one. 1990- Todd Jarrett wins the World shoot with a Aimpoint scope on his open gun. Now everbody has them on their open guns. 199(?)- TGO introduces USPSA to the 9x25 cartridge. The next revolution in Open guns. The 9x25 turns up everywhere. Some are still being shot today. 2001- 3-gun championship, It's learned that Bennie Cooley is using a Browning shotgun with some kind of mystical auto-load feature. It's now one of the more popular shotguns around. While my dates may be suspect, the point I'm trying to make is that things that seemed funny at the time are now regarded as commonplace. I'm sure there are just as many instances of failures, but at least they tried to be innovative. I would have thought the people on this board would have realized the importance of keeping an open mind with regard to technical innovations. We do not use or try new things because they are cool or have a high CDI factor, each and every piece of equipment has a specific reason or purpose. Every little bit of advantage gained helps the bottom line, and besides, the dill-doo thing has a bottle opener on the bottom and you know how hard those things are to find nowadays Again, we mock what we don't understand. Erik

Singlestack, The scope is a Weaver 1-3x20. "What is that funny looking mono-pod looking do-dad attached to the handguard??" Ahhh, we mock what we don't understand I'll have it with me at SR this month. Cy wanted to check out the scope. Erik

Phil, Jason reminds me of Ron. Fastest reload in USPSA in a hotel room, except Jason's the fastest shotgun reloader in a government range when nobody's watching. C'mon Jason, when are you gonna come out to a 3 gun match and get your game on? Erik

I recently put together a new modular AR for 3 gun competition that would let me shoot any division with the same rifle by simply changing the sighting system. One of the many JP parts I used was his adjustable gas block. I liked the idea of fine tuning the gas system to my load and reducing some of the rearward bolt inertia that contributes to the overall recoil. I had visions of a very soft shooting AR with just enough gas to lock the bolt back on an empty chamber. After adjusting the gas flow, I got exactly that, a soft shooting rifle. But it wasn't what I wanted I noticed the rifle shot softer, but it was slower and tracked worse than before. After several rounds I stopped and put up some new targets. While walking down range I started to realize what was happening. By retarding the gas flow, I had slowed down the bolt speed. Since the bolt came to the rear slower, it recoiled softer, but it also caused the recoil to spread out over a longer duration. The result was a rifle that shot softer, but was slower to recover. I went back and opened the gas block back up to normal operating flow and it started reacting normally again. I noticed a little harder recoil, but it was faster and tracked better. For me, it seemed the difference between shooting a 40 and a 45 in terms of recoil and tracking. There was nothing wrong with the JP gas block, it did exactly what it claims to do. I just didn't get the results I thought I would. Anybody else had this experience? Here's a pic of the new rifle. Erik