Tom S.

I sympathize with you. I live in S.E. Michigan and we used to be able to get bullets, powder and primers at gun shows, but for the past several years, we can't get squat. It all started drying up when UPS initiated the hazmat charge.

Don't care for them, frankly. And considering there are shooters in the world with 100,000+ rounds through 1911s with no buff that still run great, you can't really make a case for needing them. Are you sure? In one of Patrick Sweeney's articles he talks about his friend, pistolsmith Ned Christiansen, who wondered what would happen to a 1911 that was fired with no recoil spring at all. So he Rube Goldberged up a machine that cycled the slide on a 1911 with equivalent force to firing, and then let it cycle a gun with no recoil spring in it at all, 30,000 times. When he was done, he examined the parts and found no damage at all. I think about this every time someone says, "I can't run a light recoil spring in my 1911/Glock/etc. I'd damage the gun." I can't let this go unchallenged. Not that you read it - I believe that - but their results. Repeatedly striking metal to metal with force will have an effect. If the metal is soft, it distorts or mushrooms. If it's hard, it cracks. In between you can get either, or tearing. Depending on the metal properties and any heat treating, you can get by for a finite amount of time, but sooner or later, something will happen. Repeated impacts will change the molecular properties of steel, and not for the better. This is not based on supposition. As a fomer die maker (now retired) I had lots of experience working with steels, including machining, welding, heat treating, and repeated useage/abuse.

I would tend to agree. However, even using pre primed brass in a progressive does still cut down some of the steps. That being said, the priming system in both the Pro1000 and the Loadmaster work. But, you have to read the instructions and set them up properly (I'm sure this is a big reason many don't get them running) and clean them every couple hundred rounds (the most likely reason many report problems later). If you do these two things then the system will run. BTW, for those "holier than thou" folks who think Dillons never have to have any upkeep, cleaning or have any idiocyncracies then just look at all the Dillon XXX tips and tricks threads. I've seen issues with powders spilling all over, needing to clip coils off of springs, spent primers running all over the bench, the powder drop leaking with certain powders, upsidedown cases in the case tube. And this is just some of them from the first page of the XL650 thread. Oh, and this doesn't even list the poor guy who blew some of his fingers off trying to load primers into a primer tube. I think I'll keep my fingers and stick with the nice easy to load primer trays from Lee. Chris Every press needs to be set up to run 'right'. After that, every press needs to maintained. That was where I experienced a HUGE difference between the Lee and the Dillon. My Lee Pro 1000's had to be 'adjusted' after every 100 to 200 rounds, and I never did get get the powder measure to work 100% reliably. The Dillon on the other hand has been set-and-forget. Even when changing calibers, there is very little adjustment needed, unless of course I am changing bullets and powders from the last run. My 650 press was bought new in early 1994 and has never produced a round without powder (in any of the 5 calibers I reload), and has only made one round with a primer upside down (my fault, not the press's). There is no question that the Lee Presses will work. But then again, so did Yugos. That's true. My suggestion to people is that if they have some mechanical ability then Lee presses are fine. However, if they have no mechanical ability then they should do themselves a favor and spend the money on a Dillon (or make friends with someone who does have some mechanical ability). (BTW, I consider mechanical ability to be more than just changing a lightbulb but less than rebuilding an engine). As for my Loadmaster, I have done no "adjustments" to it for the past year that I've had it. I have loaded at least 10,000 rounds on it. However, I do clean the shell plate, priming system and case feeder regularly. I have had more tipped primers and upside down primers than you have (about 30 in 10,000 rounds). However, each time it was because the primer system/shell plate were dirty and I was trying to keep loading rather than cleaning it like I should have. Therefore, the tipped and upside down primers were my fault and not the fault of the press. Chris It's funny you should say that, because it's exactly what I have told people!

Good idea and lots of good links!

Plus you only need one shell...

I've heard of people who bought a 550 and then went to a 650. I've never heard of someone who bought a 650 and then went to a 550. That should tell you something...

His In-Law asked him to build something for his company at a set price The In-Law told his partner it cost twice as much so he (the In-Law) could pocket the difference.

Interesting... and she's not bad looking either! Now if we can get Obama to do the same thing....

For the first run through, you aren't missing a thing. As other's pointed out, the bulk of the savings is in the reused brass. Do your math this way: First 1000 rounds from bought from Atlanta arms = $250 A savings of $50. Second 1000 rounds = 1lb Clays ($15.40), 1000 Bullets ($124) and 1000 Primers ($26) for a total of 165.40 Remember, there's no brass cost because you're reloading the first 'store bought' batch. That results in a savings of $84.60 over the store bought ammo. Now factor in that you can save additional money by purchasing in bulk, and the 1000 round price should drop to around $140 to $150 tops, or $100 to $110 per 1000 rounds. If you use lead cast, it's even cheaper. This isn't considering the ability to tune the rounds to the gun, or making 'soft loads' for a more sensitive shooter either. To be honest though, very few people actually save money reloading, becasue they end up shooting more.

I would tend to agree. However, even using pre primed brass in a progressive does still cut down some of the steps. That being said, the priming system in both the Pro1000 and the Loadmaster work. But, you have to read the instructions and set them up properly (I'm sure this is a big reason many don't get them running) and clean them every couple hundred rounds (the most likely reason many report problems later). If you do these two things then the system will run. BTW, for those "holier than thou" folks who think Dillons never have to have any upkeep, cleaning or have any idiocyncracies then just look at all the Dillon XXX tips and tricks threads. I've seen issues with powders spilling all over, needing to clip coils off of springs, spent primers running all over the bench, the powder drop leaking with certain powders, upsidedown cases in the case tube. And this is just some of them from the first page of the XL650 thread. Oh, and this doesn't even list the poor guy who blew some of his fingers off trying to load primers into a primer tube. I think I'll keep my fingers and stick with the nice easy to load primer trays from Lee. Chris Every press needs to be set up to run 'right'. After that, every press needs to maintained. That was where I experienced a HUGE difference between the Lee and the Dillon. My Lee Pro 1000's had to be 'adjusted' after every 100 to 200 rounds, and I never did get get the powder measure to work 100% reliably. The Dillon on the other hand has been set-and-forget. Even when changing calibers, there is very little adjustment needed, unless of course I am changing bullets and powders from the last run. My 650 press was bought new in early 1994 and has never produced a round without powder (in any of the 5 calibers I reload), and has only made one round with a primer upside down (my fault, not the press's). There is no question that the Lee Presses will work. But then again, so did Yugos.

All reloading information comes with a minimum load starting point. The reason for this is ballistics WILL differ from gun to gun, bullet manufacturer to bullet manufacturer, primers, and even different lots of the same powder. When you say you are substituting one bullet for a 'similar' bullet, I hope you are talking the same weight and type. By type, I mean lead for lead, and not lead for jacketed. Start with the lighter load and pay attention signs of pressure - like flattened primers.

You will never regret it... I bought my 650 in early 1994 to replace two Lee Pro 1000's. Yes, the 650 was/is expensive. Yes, it is worth it. The two worst problems I had with the Lee presses were squib loads form no powder and keeping them adjusted. I've had neither problem with the 650, and I use it to load 5 different calibers.

I have a friend who always says he went to UCLA - Upper Corner of Lower Alabama. Welcome aboard.

Are you looking for something to use on a table or a stand alone unit?

No matter what brand, get the biggest you can afford because in a few years, it will be too small...

Dillon won't replace them????

If your safe is like mine (dark inside) you can kill two birds with one stone. Install some incandescent lights that stay on all the time. They don't have to be big - 25 watts is plenty to give you extra light and enough heat to dry out the air. An added benefit is the light will also keep mold from forming, an important side benefit if you store camera lenses in the safe like I do.

Hertz... Seriously though, like many things, it all depends on the person behind the counter. Whichever carrier you choose, I hope the counter person is knowledgeable and 'gun friendly'.

Yeah, like the movie Titanic. My daughter kept after me to see it and I kept telling her I already knew the ending - the damn boat sinks!

Like many others here, I lowered my case feeder. I cut 6 inches off the mount, which would give you 9 inches of room. You'll apreciate the extra room when changing the feed plate. Out of curiosity, with benches so high, why did you get the strong mount?

I'm with you!

Yeah but that requires math....

Sounds to me like you have a perfect opportunity to "encourage' them to pay your dad the money they owe him.... if you get my drift. Yeah, it's blackmail, but you gotta fight fire with fire. After you and your dad get your money, I would stay the hell away from them, cause some day, the $hit will hit the fan.

Here it is mounted and working:

The switch location can be anywhere you choose, or for that matter, any kinf you choose: optical, momentary contact (my choice), magnetic or what ever floats your boat. The only requirement is it functions once everytime the press functions. I have 'jury rigged' one below the shell plate holder on my 650 that only makes contact during the primer seating. It's not wired up yet because I haven't gotten the wire yet. I plan to mount the counter itself on the pole holding the shell feeder, but again, it can be mounted anywhere you want to run the wires to. It would be neat to wire an optical switch either on the finished bullet chute or at the crimp stage, but I don't know how much that kind of switch costs or what size it would be. I tried to keep this cheap and easy!