racer-x

Opened them up to 3/16" - much improved over stock 1/8".

My full size CK guns have 3 x 3/16" popples in the KKM barrel and Chaos has 2x 3/16" popples in shorter barrel. 170PF loads for them are: 9.3 grains 3N38 for MG124JHP @ 1.185 OAL with CCI-500 170PF 115's not happening with 3N38 I like how this 3N38 load performs in these guns and its very clean. I had a lot of 3N38 sitting around left over from my 38SC guns. Did some experimenting a few months ago and came up with a load that shoots nice, makes PF and isn't much trouble to load. I start having problems with MBF at 9.4 grain charge (5% of bullets falling over from case so full), but 9.2 charge loads easily with MBF... Actually better with MBF since it seats the bullet much more reliably than my fingers can with such a full case. I've loaded about 4000 of these so far at 9.3 grains - no problem.

AA7 compresses just fine. My full size CK guns have 3 x 3/16" popples in the barrel. 170PF loads for it are: 9.9 grains AA7 for MG124JHP @ 1.185 OAL with CCI-500 10.7 grains AA7 for MG115JHP @ 1.165 OAL with CCI-500 I've loaded up to 11 grains AA7 and its no problem. 9MM case holds 13.8 grains of AA7 to the top.

https://esmeralda.cc/collections/1911-full-size

Interesting - thank you. Hadn't considered the difference in charging via Dillon powder measure vs. trickling it in vs. tap & settle you described either. Looks like the Dillon powder measure settles the powder some in the drop. I just tried all of those and there was more difference than I expected. Using same fired & resized case, 1050 dump 9.3gr charge + trickle in more & scrape off excess = 10.44 grains trickle in to full & scrape off excess = 10.21 grains trickle in to full, tap case on bench to settle, add more & scrape off excess = 10.86 grains

Also, here is a case full of 3N38 and then scraped off flat. 10.44 grains

There is a decent variation in case volume with 9MM depending on make and how it is processed. I'm currently loading 9.3 grains of 3N38 in mixed range brass using LEE U-die in 1050 with MBF. No problems with too much powder at this charge for me. I experimented a few months ago and found that for me, 9.4 grains is where I started having about 5% of bullets tip over after placed by MBF from too much powder. Good for me in that 9.2 grains makes 170PF in my Chaos. Here are some pics I took this morning illustrating my 9.3 grain 3N38 charge.

Out of curiosity, can you fill one of your roll sized cases with 3N38, scrape the excess flat and then weigh that charge? On the compressed powder aspect, you have to increase the seating depth to get the OAL you want. The 3N38 rebounds a little after being compressed. For example, my 1050 setup for loading 1.185 OAL with 9.3 grains 3N38 will produce 1.165 OAL rounds with no powder charge. My guess is that to end up <= 1.165 OAL, you would need to seat your bullet down to 1.140 with no powder in case.

Gotcha - that makes sense.

I'm in the same boat - lots o 3N38 sitting around left over from my 38SC guns. Did some experimenting a few months ago and came up with a load that shoots nice, makes PF and isn't much trouble to load on my 1050 with MBF. I've measured 10.2 grains of 3N38 in a Starline 9MM case.- full to the top & scraped off flat. 9.2 grains @ 1.185 OAL makes 170PF with MG124JHP's in my 9Major Chaos (midsize with 2x 3/16" popples). I start having problems with my MBF around 9.4 grain charge, but 9.2 charge loads easily with MBF... Actually better with MBF since it seats the bullet much more reliably than my fingers can with such a full case.

Great points so far on starting with OAL and making sure it plunks OK in your gun. As I re-read your post, I see that your examples are all minor PF and you mention a 929 & SA 1911. Big thing to consider with the OAL & your 1911 is how the loaded ammo fits in your magazines. After you determine the max OAL by plunk test, then determine what works best in your mags & feeds good in your gun. My SS 1911's feed great with 1.120-1.150 OAL loads using RN profile. Well short of max OAL from plunk test in my barrels

1.250 OAL, SV tubes, Grams followers, MG 115 JHP

2 things I notice with these results. 1st 10 shot group @ 39F temp is with small pistol primers and has a 70 ES. Something was off (inconsistent) with the loading of these rounds - most likely powder drops. 2nd group is smaller 6 shot string using small rifle primers. ES is at the top end of OK, but rifle primers will yield higher velocities with lower ES. Here are results of a primer comparison test I did using SPP, SPM & SRP in otherwise identical loads. Barrel was not clean at start and gun was allowed to cool between strings.

That is not my experience. I've tested this many times over the last 2 years with multiple guns. This most recent same day test is with my Atlas Chaos using identical ammo (range brass). Results have been similar with my other guns in outside temps between 29 - 104F. I've seen bigger differences between lots of the same powder.

I've experimented with a lot of load combinations and how they work for me on the clock. 10.8 grains AA7 under a MG 115 JHP @1.165 OAL is my favorite in my CK Thunder 9's. I recommend trying a Wolf 8# variable with this and see what you think. *** plunk test to ensure 1.165 OAL load does NOT contact leade first *** *** work up to this load in your gun to be safe *** I have 2 CK thunders and this load chrono's 1490-1500fps in each. Both my CK's came with short leades. I had to throat ream each to load longer than 1.125 safely. AA7 is a little dirty compared to the likes of VV3n38, but is cheap, available and meters great. Also, AA7 is not temp sensitive. I did a shootout comparison between HS6 & AA7 a while back and AA7 proved a little cleaner than HS6. Also, AA7 is a very fine powder. This 10.8 grain charge easily fits in a 9 case ( 13.8 grains AA7 fills case to the top).

No, don't change your powder. My understanding is that you reduce your charge weight until it tests good on paper (minimal debris on target). You are trying to find the highest charge weight that doesn't waste gas & un-burnt powder out the front of the gun. This should yield the flattest shooting performance with minimal recoil and maximum use of gas.

I tried the MG 115 & 124 CMJ's in 3 of my 9major open guns earlier this year. Accuracy was not acceptable in these guns. Definitely shoot groups with them as part of your load development. Accuracy is exceptional with MG 115 & 124 JHP's in all of my open guns.

+1 The Limcat magwell does what it says it will. I replaced the Dawson ICE on my Chaos about a month ago now. I was sticking mags in reloads often enough that I was considering how to get a plastic grip fitted to my Chaos - really frustrating. Thousands of reloads so far in dryfire, training & matches with zero stuck mags. My reload speed is back up to where it was again now that I don't have to worry about sticking the mag in the metal vise grip.

or extractor tuned

No difference in accuracy between the KKM & Trubor's I've owned (3 of each). The Trubor's have been 3-5 PF slower with same loads though (compared to KKM).

Yes From a supported position, I zero at 50 yards. Yes, hold over on close danger targets. Your aiming point on close targets should be part of your walk through. Here is the dope on my guns shooting MG115JHP's at 1500 fps. 50 yard zero will also be zero near 20 yards depending primarily on how high your dot is over bore axis and velocity of your bullet. First benefit of zeroing at longer range is you should be able to fine-tune closer to center of target. 2nd thing is you reduce windage offset with off-center optic mount. Another benefit to shooting groups off a bag at 50 yards is you verify you & your gun can do it. If anything isn't right, you will see it here. yds hold (" over/under POA) 0 -1.1 5 -.8 10 -.5 15 -.2 20 ZERO 25 .1 30 .2 35 .2 40 .2 45 .1 50 ZERO

True Blue is a great powder that burns clean and meters well. Works great for 9 minor. I use it with 124's for production & PCC loads. I do NOT recommend for 9 major though - too fast a burn rate and builds pressure dangerously quick with very minor OAL changes.

I might have missed the finesse point when I tried the Lee FCD, but my experience with 9 major resulted in bullets that were very easy to pull. I could be wrong, but my determination was that this was a result of differences in elasticity between the bullet & brass (Young's mod.). The FCD squeezes the brass much lower than just the edge of case mouth where a normal crimp die works. Pressure applied here results in different amounts of rebound from the bullet & case that results in less tension holding the bullet. My loads are MG 115 JHP's loaded to 1.165 OAL. This leaves only .270" of bullet in contact with case. Zero problem with setback with this load using Dillon / Lee resize, Dillon/MBF powder funnel & Dillon crimp dies . Swap out and adjust Lee FCD per Lee directions, bullets can be pulled out by hand without tools. Maybe I missed something with the FCD setup, but I went back to what worked. zzt, What OAL & Bullet are you using the FCD with that works for you?

Jason, Just for grins, try loading some dummy rounds with out the MBF powder funnel. Either use the factory Dillon powder funnel, or you can do it carefully with no flare at all. Then remove crimp as usual. My bet is you will not be able to get any setback under normal circumstances (i.e. no hammers or power tools). The brass should be sized down perfectly in station 1 (assuming the die is all the way down). The test above will prove this (or not). If your MBF powder funnel is a little larger OD on the first step than it should be, it will resize out a very significant section of case that needs to be tight to hold your bullet in place. I sanded mine with fine 600 grit then 1000 grit sandpaper. Then shined to a mirror glaze with Mothers polish and Dremel buffing wheel. FYI, I just measured my MBF powder funnel: 1st step = .347 " 2nd step = .355 " Also, I tried a Lee FCD with 9 major loads and it reduced case tension significantly. My favorite resizing die for 9major is Lee undersized die. I also grind the base until it just touches carbide section. This removes some of the unecessary flare and lets you resize each case a little farther down (allows die to be screwed deeper into tool head). How much material you can remove depends on the individual die. Do not grind into the carbide section.