Lange22250

* With OEM Glock mags. A couple of friends got them last year and with Glock mags they were great, not so much with the MagPuls or KCL. I have an Olympic Arms K9Gl from about 05 or so that's been just about perfect. The ones that I've seen from after that have had issues. One of the keys to a good PCC seem to be the mags and it's impossible to beat Glock mags for price of reliability.

I'll just throw this out there for your consideration. I tried to make an 1100 work for 3 Gun and dumped about 500$ of gunsmith rebuilds, on to of the initial purchase and upgrades, into it to keeping it running but just gave up. In the end and went with a M1S90 for the durability. Just about everyone else I know who has, or does, try to make the 1100 work has similar issues. They don't stand up to high round counts with the mix of ammo a lot of people use in 3 Gun like slugs, high base, turkey loads and Prairie Storm. This could be one of those "buy once, cry once" situations for you. The Stoger 3000 is a good low cost option that may save you money, time and frustration in the end. More money options like the Versamax, M2S90 or 1301 would be really hard to grow out of.

Maxpedition may be a rifle'shotgun option - http://www.maxpedition.com/store/pc/Discreet-Gun-Case-42-in-or-106-68-cm-long-p1453.htm

Any idea of round count? I have to start loading for myself and the kid I'm bringing along. Thanks.

Wouldn't that make it a 'mag changing' competition rather than a shooting competition? Why the desire by so many to limit mags? Considering the reliability I see out of mag fed shotguns and the hassle factor of mag changes on the ones that aren't extensively modified, I'd love to see it as I'd become more competitive with my M2's and a good quad load. After ROing Ironman, CT and MWMG the last few years I don't see the mag shotguns as much of a competitive advantage anymore because don't seem to be able to run for a match.

A couple of people have gone all the way with NV but you will not be competitive due to FOV and lack of practice time (unless your Tier 1 in real life with a few hundred hours on the range).

Your match entry is your's to do with as you please, as long as you are safe and within the rules. The gear you want to use would probably leave you less than competitive but if you would enjoy using it then all is good and have at it. Never though of the BAR as a long range gun though more like an 03 Springfield I would think. There has been one person who did the match with cowboy gear and had a good time. I will certainly give you a ton of style points if you can pull it off.

I would have to disagree on your definition of prepared. I see prepared as a continuum. At the low end is the guy who is shoveling reloads in his pockets and shooting a rifle with a bad zero and having a good time finishing last and at the high end are the people who know how many 7 1/2's it takes to knock over a full size popper at 30yrds and which choke he needs to use to make it happen. With the amount of equipment variation available even within divisions, the person who takes the time to research everything, experiment and be an early adopter on top of practicing will always have an edge. And this is on top of actual match experience and any other classes they may have taken. Unless you want to have a severely restricted equipment division it will always be that way.

Just finished laying out my match ammo and putting it away in the new smaller trooper stash can. Looks like I only need to carry a days worth of ammo to start. What am i doing wrong? Usually it's the first two days to start.

I'm right handed and left eye dominant. I shoot the pistol with the right and long guns off the left side. With coupled mags the reloads are the same speed, grab the mags and hit the button. On the shotgun the reloads are faster since I'm doing them with the strong hand. I feel that (since I've never put a lot of time into shooting off the right) that driving the long gun with the strong hand from the front is fast, efficient and easier then the weak hand. Trigger manipulation is a relatively simple manipulation and easy with the weak side with a little practice. I started with a BB gun at 10 shooting off the left. That's a lot of years and 20k reps before I even heard of 3 Gun and the differences in manipulation so it would have been harder to retrain for the strong side. Due to an astigmatism in my left eye I am stuck shooting with the right closed. After talking with several ophthalmologists it is what it is unless I do Lasik which is a possibility.

Bring both is always the correct answer.

The water at the range tastes like sulfur so bring your. A camelbak is nice to have as is a chair. Cleaning gear to take the dust out and keep you r guns cased as long as you can. Bring enough cloths that you can be comfortable fro 40-90 degrees. It will probably be in the 80's but the weather can change fast and get nasty. A quad is the best range cart if you can pull it off. +1 on getting to know your squad mates and be willing to work as a team. If you do the match goes well, if not the long days are a lot less fun. A couple of big garbage bags for your gear if the rain comes. Lots of snacks. Be able to take off all your gear when you are done shooting. You will be doing too much walking/resetting to carry it around all day. Camping at the range cuts about an hour of commuting out of your day which starts at 8 and ends between 6 and 9.

My 2 cents for what it's worth. The best thing that can happen to raise the level of consistency among the RO staff is a long meeting before the match to go over all the rules, line by line, with the MD giving his interpretation and expectations. Followed by an explanation of the scoring system and then a walk through of all the stages. This is where the MD can set the " tone" for the match staff's interaction with the shooters. On RO/shooter interactions. I find that the more informal the tone set by the RO, the less likely a lot of shooters are to listen to the RO and the more likely they are to try to push them. I like to be as formal as possible. Lots of "Yes sir" and " No sir". I will also clearly explaining my expectations about the on deck shooter being prepared to shoot and the squads responsibility for reset during the walk through. This seems to encourage shooters not to "push" me to test the limits with regard to slacking on the reset and arguing about penalties/misses (most of the time they know but want to see if they can BS their way out of it). At the same time it is important to give the shooters as much time as they need where it counts, getting setup. I never push them and make sure that they have decided they are GTG. At the MGM Ironman coaching is allowed and even encouraged, but the RO needs to ask the shooter what they want and the RO needs to realize that less is usually more.

The bunker stage might be a possibility if you can find 6 RO's dumb enough to run it. No luck on that last year, not that I'm complaining.

Since the match is broken into 2 halves with a reset day it's not hard to go from shooter to RO mode and if you RO first it helps get you acclimated to shooting long stages which is what throws most people the first time out. Just don't injure yourself before you shoot.

The companion problem to slug on steel is the slug after a flying clay. Yes, some shooters are so disconnected from what the gun is doing after the buzzer goes off the plan will go to hell and no mater what the recoil feels like they keep pulling the trigger. For an RO to process that they are absolutely sure the steel was hit with a slug and stop the shooter before a clay is engaged is a tough thing. I wish this was a hypothetical, but I had the misfortune of watching it this year.

About 7 years ago I asked to see how the Beretta Storm's trigger/sear worked and when the Gun Counter Monkey field stripped it the recoil assembly shoot out and hit me in the right eye. Vision saved by my glasses, which are also my shooting glasses.

For Ironman, another large round count match, I always carry 6 4 round caddies in the front and now a 3x3 on the back on my belt and have a side saddle with another 8 rounds. That gets me through most of the stages and provides OK shell segregation. If I think I need more I have a very simple chest rig with another 5 6 round caddies. I have seen other shooters keep all the shell caddies on a chest rig, 4 four rounds to the weak side and 2 4x4 on the strong side so he can go prone correctly.

That can is 1072.5 inches3 and the max size in the rules is 968 inches3. I had to make my own can from plywood to get the right size. You can probably fill some portion of the can with wood or something like that to decrease the volume and I know I would be fine with it.

Assuming you're a member of that club AND have attended the Action Area course, I would LOVE to know how the instructors teach a "speed reload", if not in the same manner the pics show. From a flat presentation on the target, keeping the pistol at eye level roll the pistol to the strong side and bring the hand in a bit so you can see the mag well and insert mag. Muzzle stays well below the berm, pretty much in what would be the primary impact area which is the first 10 feet. Not saying that it is faster than what you see in the pics when executed by an A class and above shooters but I don't see a big time difference for everyone else. Muzzle above the berm at any time in the class is prohibited but because they are "new" students and a new concept for them, they get up to 3 warnings before they DQ from the class. The class is also conducted emphasising safety over speed so most of it is done at a "walk" pace with the first string dry. This catches and corrects most bad habits before the ammo goes in the gun. Oh, I get it. If I assigned the numbers of the clock face inside the mag well with 12 o'clock toward the target, the muzzle over the berm reload would have me looking directly at 3 o'clock of the magwell (since I'm right handed), versus the muzzle at berm which would have me looking at about 12:30 or 1 o'clock. This isn't completely unnatural since it happens to me often enough when I'm reloading and crabbing to the left and I'm trying to avoid the 180. This works great if the gun fits my hand perfectly where I never have to shift my grip to hit the mag release (like with CZ's and Tanfoglios with thin grips). If the gun doesn't fit perfectly (like for 1911's, HK's, and Glocks for me), I would still need to "flip" the gun in my grip to hit the mag release. "Flipping" the gun to hit the mag release will still risk getting muzzle over the berm. For me, I'll just have to do the flip before tilting the gun, instead of while tilting the gun. This increases the risk of a dropped gun until I build up enough practice hours. Dude, you put way too much time into that one. I may have to steal it.

Assuming you're a member of that club AND have attended the Action Area course, I would LOVE to know how the instructors teach a "speed reload", if not in the same manner the pics show. From a flat presentation on the target, keeping the pistol at eye level roll the pistol to the strong side and bring the hand in a bit so you can see the mag well and insert mag. Muzzle stays well below the berm, pretty much in what would be the primary impact area which is the first 10 feet. Not saying that it is faster than what you see in the pics when executed by an A class and above shooters but I don't see a big time difference for everyone else. Muzzle above the berm at any time in the class is prohibited but because they are "new" students and a new concept for them, they get up to 3 warnings before they DQ from the class. The class is also conducted emphasising safety over speed so most of it is done at a "walk" pace with the first string dry. This catches and corrects most bad habits before the ammo goes in the gun.

So what range and which shooters are you talking about? Like another poster wrote, I too would like to see a vid of these world class champs reloading without pointing over the berm. Learning that technique would make this entire 11 page thread moot. I have seen videos of Tomasie, Leatham, Sevigny, Jarrett, Burkett and others. they all reload the same way. I took a class from Manny Bragg a few years ago. It is exactly how he teaches. I don't know if my question ever got answered previously....I was wondering about which range/club has 4,700 members??? anywhooo....a couple of pics... maybe you know these guys... maybe they have shot at West Texas Granny's range: Tri County Gun Club in Sherwood, Oregon. Last report had us above 4700 with an average of 70 new members a month.

I'm sort of baffled by this statement. If the muzzle is pointed at a berm during an ND or any other discharge how will the round go over the berm, aside from a ricochet which will not have anywhere near the energy or travel anywhere near the distance? I meant, having a rule about not pointing over a berm, won't stop someone from launching one over the berm. If a shot can go over a berm, someone will do it, unless live ammunition is not allowed True, but it certainly greatly reduces the probability when the number of times a muzzle is pointed over the berm is radically decreased and that is what club management is looking for.

Can you please point out any other matches, outlaw or otherwise, which have any deviation from the USPSA core safety rules? The only deviations I have every seen were allowing firearm cleaning/maintenance outside of safety areas, which at a cold range bothers me not at all. I have also noticed that about half of the people who RO at USPSA matches in the PNW have never been to an RO class.

In that case the club has other worries. Lead in most states needs to be contained in impact areas and serious consequences including shutting down a range completly can occur if environmental officials find it happening. Most ranges are also required to have lead reclamation programs and random shotgun blasts make them even more costly. Our area almost lost a large range for exactly that reason and were forced to spend hundreds of thousands in legal defense and remediation.