B_RAD

I'll say one last thing for the OP's consideration. A properly set up 2011 will run just as well as anything. CZs need tweaked ammo too. 2011s need longer. CZs need shorter or having the barrel reamed. Ask some shooters to let you shoot thier gun. I let someone try my Atlas about every match. Most folks love letting others try their guns. But nobody can deny the CZ is cheaper!

Never shot one. I've heard nothing but great things. A TSO should hold value well too but since the 2011 is the more popluar paltform, I'd think it'd hold value at a little higher precentage. I've got to the point in life where I buy once, cry once. You buy a STI then have $600 work and parts done to it. Then want a metal frame, so you're in for the same money as just buying an Atlas! Just saying.

I don't like any CZ saftey. When I shot production I used the thin ones since there was no need. I did try the S2 like and didn't like it either. That cool it works on the TSO! That brings up another thing to consider. The TSO is gonna be easier to work on.

You know what I find funny, I feel that every gun I've shot for any length of time, fits my hand perfectly. Then, after 2 weeks of shooting something different, that gun fits my hand perfectly and the previous gun doesn't. It's like I said above, you'll get used to anything! Though, I doubt I could ever get used to the stock thumb saftey on the TSO! It just seems to small and too far forward to be disengaged reliably. Seems like most shooters switch it for the larger version. Though, I'd still say it'll never be as user friendly as a 1911 tumb saftey.

Man, this is a tough one. I'm shooting limited major this year. I chose the 2011 (Atlas Titan). I got a good price one a used one. I don't own a TSO but I've shot one a couple of times. I guess it's gonna be a preference thing because both will work so it has to be a preference. My, preference is the 2011 (set up like I like it). For me everything is better in the 2011. The trigger, the magwell, the grip, the thumb saftey (I hate the CZ one!). Now, saying all that, I've shot some STI that I did not like. I don't think I'd want to shoot an Edge out of the box. I like the metal PT grip which is another $500. The stock STI trgger sucks IMO. I think accuracy would be equal. Reloads I think are easier on the 2011. Recoil might be less worth the TSO vs plastic 2011. Though, I really believe anyone can get used to anything with enough practice. So,.. I don't know that any of these matter. So, depends on how much money you're willing to spend. I like my $4k Atlas better. But it's twice the price so,...... I know folks that shoot the CK 2011 that are $2600-3,000 and love them. I just bought another Titan. I figure while they do cost more, it's not like you lose all that money. It's like any other gun, you can sell it for a precentage of what you paid for it. Good luck.

OP, see how you're getting different advice from everyone? I'm shooting my rig that is set up for production but I'm shooting limited. I'm shooting ghost mag pouches. I shoot them bullets out. They've never broke. Though, they do seem kinda cheap but I'm not easy on my equipment so, unless I really hit something hard, I would think they'd be fine. I shoot a boss hanger. I ate crap hard one stage and fell right on my left side. It bent the bottom of the hanger but still works fine. I had a huge bruse I fell hard! I've never tried racers but they look like they would work but if they won't do bullets out, then I probably won't use them. I think I'm the only guy shooting a limited with mag oiches behind my hip and bullets out. Indi need to tweak my set up because my pouches are too far behind the hip bone. I got started in IDPA and wanted a set up with them in the smse locations. Anyways. I would think the SP hanger would be fine too. Like I've said in another thread, you'll get used to anything. My advice is try someone else's gear if you can. If you cant, then go with your gut.

I'm not aware of anything that is going to be exact. Too bad.

We actually are in agreement. Rockstar draws and reloads aren't the most important thing. Get fast and accurate. Then get faster and more accurate. Then, stay consistent. I thought about doing the top row first on the classifier but thought turning to the top targets is more difficult than tuning to the wide open target. Yeah, you got to go to the top row after the reload but I felt a 180 to them is more dangerous.

I've used shot coach before but wasn't impressed. It didn't seem accurate. I'd say the one you're using may not be accurate either. On that first string the app shows 4.38 but it sounds like someone in the background says 4.54. If your time on the first string was 4.54 and the timer shows 4.38, that app is worthless.

My club is shooting 13-01 this weekend. Not sure if I'm going to make it. If I do, I'll post my times. I just looked at this one. It looks like one of the more difficult ones due to the no shoots blocking most of the top row. Just looking at it, I'd say aiming for just under the B zone line, on the top targets, is the safest? Though, you're almost gauranteeing no A's. So maybe going for the A head box? My guestimate times would be a little faster. 1.2 draw, .20 , .25, .2, .25, .2 1.35 reload, .35 ,. 35, .35, .35, .35 For a total of 5.4 sec. I'd start on the bottom. I'd expect to drop more points on the top row. 53 pts / 5.4 sec = 9.8148 HF. That's over 95%. The discipline for propoer sight pic on the top row is where I'd think this one is make or break it.

Things like surrender draws and turn and draws should really only add about .1 sec. That's the goal at least. Reloads are supposed to be about as fast as your draw. Transitions and splits should .2 for 7-10 yd open targets. Again, that's the goal. For my own way of thinking, I wouldn't even worry what B class times. I want to do GM times. So, until I get those down, I wouldn't stop trying to get there. Then, when I do get there, I start trying to get the next skill down to GM time while maintaining the skills I've already got. I personally think Gooldylocks times are a bit slow. Not saying I can rock them faster everytime on demand. I'm just saying they're slow for my goal times. Though, a 1.3 relaod 100% is better than a 1.0 one 50%. So, keep practicing until you get them fast and reliable.

Sorry. I'm meant those are GM times. Or at least barely GM times. I know you want to know what each class time may be. I was just saying since GM is the goal, just keep track of where you are each time until you get to better than the GM times.

Ben Stoeger has times for GM in his skills and drills book. Those are the goal times so what the C class times are aren't really important. I'd say think 1.0 sec draw/reload and .20 split/trans. You should be able to figure everything else out since it's just combining these.

Very good chance I'll be giving open a try next year. I'm not liking the idea of $0.14 a peice for SC. From what I think I understand, 9mm major is more likely to have issues. I'm hearing they can run shooting 9mmm but .38SC is more reliabale. If .38S is about the same price as SC, then I'm not sure I see a reason to go with S?

I have a Vannek GM trigger kit. It's nice. It was like $240. I also have a stock trigger bar, a lone wolf connector, wolff completion spring pack. Cost me $30-$40 and while not quite as nice, it's good enough. Never once have I thought the Vannek was the reason for me doing poorly or doing great on a stage. To be honest it's kinda difficult to even tell the difference between the two. I can but it's hard. Glocks are just like anything else, they have differences in tolerances. One trigger kit may feel differently in two different guns. A different connector and a wolff comp spring pack is cheap so, it's not a waste of money if you don't feel it didn't help. I meant to mention earlier that I do replace base pads. Three reasons why I do. 1. Easier to take in and off for cleaning. 2. Weight. To help fall out of the gun. Not to dampen recoil. 3. More durable than most stock base pads. I like shock bottle because they're easy and aren't too big. Some have what I consider wierd profiles and they make for an awkward grip. But like everything else, you can used to just about anything.

Also, I'd caution you to be careful of people's advice. Mine included. Everyone precives recoil differently. So, whatever they think is soft, or whatever combination of doohickeys they swear by, may work the same for you. Not to mention, some people would say (probably better than I'm saying now) that amount a gun recoils doesn't matter as much as how the gun cycles and returns to the same spot. The feeling of soft is nice but more snap with the same retun might be better for competition.

This is just my opinion. Don't sweat it too much. I'd replace the stock plastic guide rod with a steel one and the recoil spring of your choice. Then just practice and not worry about chasing the ulitmate set up for recoil reduction. For me it'd be a Jager guide rod and a 11lb wolf spring. Just because it's simple and works. I'll admit I've never shot a tungsten guide rod but I doubt it really matters. To answer your question about wieght distribution, I'd say adding weight at the end near the muzzle is better to minimize recoil rise but think about transitions, that same added wieght could affect you stopping the gun while transitoning. People say heavier guns or slower to tranistion. I'd think they just require more effort but can be transitioned just as fast. But also require more effort to stop. I also don't worry too much about wieght. Which is great because I waste too much time fretting about other stuff! The correct grip is going to be the best thing you can do for recoil management. And it's free! For me it's a constant battle to resist the urge to tinker. So, I get it. I wasted so much time last year on switching guns, and modifiying. No doubt the time wasted kept me from making GM! Not to mention my overall skill level would be better too! XYZ mod may help minimize a small issue but usually the results aren't worth the time, money and effort. Especially, when you could have spent that time practicing and that money on ammo! Send an email or FB message to any of the top shooters. Ask them about their grear. You'll be amazed at just how un gadgeted their set up is!

Some would say the correct technique includes a strong grip. Not just a "correct pull". At least for USPSA. When I was younger and my dad and I would shoot for one hole groups, we'd hold the gun with a light grip. Now, I try to grip it as hard as I can without causing the gun to shake. To the OP, you'll never quit working on trigger control. Even Ben works on it. I'd bet every day! I have it too from time to time. Grip hard Only move my trigger finger No side force on the trigger/gun Something new I'm trying is to not pull the trigger too hard. My 2011 has a sub 2lb trigger. It's fairly easy to pull the trigger softer. A DA/SA gun not so much.

Isn't the primer collater a 1,000 extra?

I think I'll be jumping into open next year. Anyone have an opinion on heavy guns for open? Seems since the comp does a lot to reduce muzzle rise, steel grips aren't as beneficial as they are in iron sight divisions. Am I wrong?

I beacme an RO after one monthly match. I'm in the minority here. I don't feel it helped my game at all. However, I still recommend it. Everyone needs to do it IMO!

This! Though, I'd add there is a sweet spot for how much to bend. Should be rether large of a sweet spot though. I'd chalk it up to tolerances. Depending on your gun and which mags, you may find it'll been good to go with nickel plated mags but may not be 100% with AFC mags. I had one gun that was that way. You can buy pre bent springs from CZC if you don't want to bend them yourself.

Pick a gun that you like and never ever ever,.....ever hold or shoot a different gun. Then practice. If you like one better than the other, choose that one. Like Memphis says above, the gun isn't going to hold you back. Though, you gotta choose one. Everyone is going to be different so, nobody can tell you that one will be better for you than another. At least not for most guns. I have to say that because someone will come along and say that gear does matter because nobody wins with a hi-point. Ha ha. Or a M&P. Ha ha. Those suck. See....... What I'm talking about. I've shot both a G34 and a Shadow 2. I personally think either will do the trick. I do like one better than the other but that's my taste. I will say that I beileve the reason for most folks shooting the heavy guns is due to it just being the new hotness. Not staying the Glock is better or worse. I just think the heavy steel DA/SA guns are the new thing. Give it 5 yrs and everyone will be shooting the plastic guns again. At least in production. Seriously, pick one and shoot it. If or when you make M or GM, then you can revisit looking for a different gun. Until then, practice! Though, I would agree you should get good sights and holster/mag pouches/belt.

I've had a Shadow Orange and a CZC Shadow. I don't feel the orange was worth the extra cost. It wasn't anymore accurate and I had to replace several parts to get the trigger equal to the czc shadow.

I had the dry fire mag. I felt it was not worth the money. It does click and kind of mimics the real trigger but it's not the same as the real trigger pull. For me, if it's not the same, then I'd rather use the piece of paper trick for free. The dry fire mag doesn't drop free either. I've also had a cool fire trainer. Again, not worth it to me! The laser it comes with is out dated IMO. Thats something that was the thing to do 10 yrs ago before people learned looking at the targets for hits is a bad. Calling shots is good! The cool fire does cycle the slide and does produce a decent amount of recoil but again, not really realistic. You can't use dummy loaded mags for wieght. It was a pain to keep running too. My advice for anyone wanting to dry fire is to just dry fire. Any gadget is going to be a waste of money and is probably going to train someone kind of bad habit. Get a mag of dummy rounds if you can. That's it. Just accept the tirgger going dead.