Loves2Shoot

Pointing out IDPA does not use the criteria Duane stated as why the Glock is a SA and the XD isn't doesn't matter one bit to IDPA, as they will do what they do. Why is pointing it out moot? Since when does the ATF classify guns for IDPA divisions, as IDPA is a privately owned business? Striker fired is neither SA or DA. So to blame it on the ATF because a marketing guy called it a SA just makes no sense to me. Why would you NOT putting striker fired guns in the same class? Another world wide shooting organization put them in the Production division (which does not allow SA's) because it makes sense to have like guns together, as they are a similar trigger action. They didn't let the ATF stop them, as it is not the ATF's sport. I'm just calling it like I see it, and I know it won't change a thing. If they cared to change it, they would. No one is stopping them. ps. It is in my financial interest to have them in ESP, because I can do more mods on them in that division, but that doesn't mean I can't say I think the classification is absurd from a logical standpoint.

As Flex said, no one had to tell me, as I've done some work on XD's and shot them a bit Any one can test it themselves, no need to take my word for it. The cocked chamber indicator is held against the striker via the striker spring so as the indicator moves, so does the striker. You can see the indicator move rearward when you pull the trigger, if you put your finger on it, you can feel it move to the rear also. If you take the slide off an XD, you can see the angle on the part of the striker that contacts the sear. This angle insures that the striker moves back before being released. The Glock is cocked by the slide racking NOT by pulling the trigger, you too can test this by dry firing the Glock and continuing to pull the trigger after the initial "click." No matter how many times you pull the trigger again, you can not cocking it without racking the slide. To describe pulling the trigger on a Glock as "cocking it" thus, can not be an accurate description of what pulling the trigger does on a Glock in my mind. "As with the Glock, the trigger design does not fit any traditional classification." In a Glock the striker is "cocked" when you rack the slide, the same way it does with the XD. In the case of the Glock, the trigger bar catches the striker, in the XD the sear catches the striker. When you pull the trigger on a glock or XD the striker moves rearward and then is released. From reading the article you posted, I would assume this writer would classify the Glock as a "modern single-action design." Any one to cares to look at a XD can tell the striker moves back before moving forward, and that is why I believe IDPA must have a criteria other than the one you have described. That the guns are NOT in the division suggest to me there must be "another" reason, ie the XD is THAT MUCH BETTER , as no other reason I've been given passes the smell test. Now, is the XD that much better than it should not be in the same division, no. They are both stock service pistols of the "modern single action design," as described by the writer of your article.

Untrue. The powers-that-be in IDPA are going strictly by the guns' mechanic operating systems, i.e. trigger actions. "MUCH better than a Glock" has nothing to do with it. Sorry, that was a joke, thus the wink. The mechanical fact is when you pull the trigger on an XD, it pulls the striker to the rear, then releases it to go forward, and you stated above that makes a Glock DA, so they must be using a different criteria for the XD.

+2 I've stated that before and totally agree. The XD is being used as a stock service pistol all over the US and the rest of the world. I've shot the IDPA classifier many time with my XD/XDM and Glocks and the times are the same also, so I don't get the 9 second handicap for the XD unless it is just that much better than a Glcok in the minds of the rulers of IDPA (Come on really it is laughable practically speaking isn't it?) I could care less for me personally, I compete in whatever class the rulers put it in, because I only care about measuring myself against HOA and like to see where I can improve, but it doesn't make sense logically.

Thank is not technically correct. It does move the striker rearward before releasing it, just not very much. Just put your finger on the cocked chamber indicator and you can feel it move rearward when you pull the trigger. In thinking with a double action your could repeatably pull the trigger to make the hammer strike, ala Sig P226 or CZ75, or an old time double action revolver. The XD is closer to a Glock in action than Sig of CZ in the action, and not by a little bit IMO, but IDPA had decided it is MUCH better than a Glock and must be in ESP

I was at a State Match this year (IDPA) and was told my gear was "illegal" by a fairly new SO. The problem wasn't the gear, it was the lack of understanding of the rules. Of course the gear was fine, but the SO was very adamant he knew it was not legal, even though he was looking at a picture and could not understand what the photo was depicting. We had already had a gear check on 3 stages (I think we had 4 or 5 that day) and I knew the gear is legal. I did have to take it to the MD (which was a heck of a walk) and this is very distracting for a competitor, as your squad is shooting and you have no time to prepare properly to shoot the stage. I think the bigger issue is that the rules are a bit complicated and it does some take some time and RO/SOing to get the hang of it, so I do think their should be some sort of experience or testing or the match staff at bigger matches to ensure the competitors have consistent judging (especially in IDPA, where there are a lot of gray areas.) I appreciate every one who volunteers to put on a match, but it can be frustrating when someone is getting "on the job training" at a larger match that you have spent a lot of time and money getting ready for and attending at the expense of your score.

They shoot good, just ask Homie. Mounting a Docter or JPoint is easy.

The terms SA and DA came from revos and were later applies autos, I typoed what I was trying to say the first time.

We have made some, but have been waiting for some more sight options (as the sight we have been using is hard to get and expensive) before doing them on a bigger scale. Carver will have a C-More mount out shortly and we have the comps done already. I have 6" Barsto and Pistol Gear barrels in stock to so you can go 4" or 5" so you should see more open XD's popping up in the near future.

Hmm. Are they really that poor? The ones Dan Bedell modded for me are pretty nice Yes they are, sow's ear into silk purse comes to mind.

Beat me to it. I agree 100%

If you want to do it as a hobby, that is much different that doing it for business. "I was thinking about starting a business making them." It sounded like you wanted to make spec STI frames (which is in my thinking a knocking off them.) Competition is great, but to compete with good companies, it is very hard just copying their designs and selling it for the same price or for a little less. In my mind competing would be making a new/better frame and not making it to their specs. I didn't mean to come off like I think you just copy designs and make cheap stuff, reality is their are people can only do that. I didn't get "I want to make something new and improved" from your original posts. I was trying to be helpful with the other things it takes to do it "as a business" that a lot of people over look.

Don't forget distributor and dealer margins, advertising, support staff, admins costs, sponsorships and a contingency program. If you do not make major improvements or innovations, it will be a very tough road to hoe to copy a product and sell it for the same price as the established product. As Shred said, it is a small market, and many people who could make their own frames, buy them from STI. Ask yourself why they would buy the frames and not make them? These folks make very excellent products and yet buy a part they could make easily. Are they stupid or do they know how to do the "real" math and know the market dynamics? How much money could you really make just making knocking off frames charging the same price? How many 2011 units are sold per year? How much would it cost to get 10% of that market? What can you do to make your product a better value (most custom gun buyers don't buy on price.) Without that info (minimum), you might as well start piling up the money and get out the matches. Everyone in "the business" knows who innovate and who just try to low ball cheap products and sell on price. The ones who are hacks don't make it in the custom gun world, they run around chasing the next thing to try to make work. The ones who innovate and make great products and stand behind them, have as much work as they can handle (or more.)

You don't want to use the Novak adjustable rear? $55

G I M M I C K Why would you want to handicap yourself shooting those sights? That is the question I would ask your friend first. The guy who made the knows squat about shooting accurately at high speed from the discussions I've had from him. He told me it is impossible to see shots faster than .65 seconds. With triangle (or other "balance on top of" sights) you don't get quick vertical feedback, as you can only focus on one point in space at a time. Over looking something that simple, is sight designer mistakes 101.

Sordin

Which model of XD? The XDM is 14.25 oz. and the XD .45 tactical is 16oz.

Like a Glock? Single action double action refers to revolvers. IDPA is way behind the curve with new striker fired pistols, but an XD can run with any of the guns in CDP or ESP.

WTG Chuck! I take it you beat the open crew with your Production gun. Homie can shoot that fast, he just can't hit the targets when he does He was fondling my SP01 today and I think one of yours will find a new home soon

I hope to run into you at a match someday and let you shoot mine. I would take you up on it. I have a pretty decent idea of what can and can't be done on a 6" gun, but I'm always up for shooting new guns. I didn't state my preference of 5" or 6", only that there are enough shooters I know that can really shoot that don't like the feel of the 6" guns. The reasons behind the "why" really depends on the shooter. For me, I have not been able to shoot faster or more accurate with a 6" gun, but then again I still have pretty good eyes. I shoot as accurately with a 4" XD as a 5" model, and the same as with the 4 1/2" XDM. Maybe when my eyes go it will matter. I know many people who prefer a G17 over the G34 also, but logic would say that shouldn't be. I've always wanted to build a 7" gun. I think a Sight Tracker with a 7" barrel and a commander slide would be the ticket. Some things matter. and some things just don't. The cool thing about shooting is that you can decide for yourself.

You really couldn't make a bad choice on this one I did see 8 Glocks malfunction at 1 match, all in my squad and it was a Glock only match. Weird stuff does happen.

Some folks who "can" call their shots and have shot well engineered 6"ers just don't like the feel of them them.

If you get the XDM you can use it for Prod, Limited, or L10 and ESP. My choice would be either the XDM or CZ for Production only, the 9mm's are cheaper though so I might lean toward the CZ. The rumor is the 9mm XDM is on it's way, but the rumor is over a year and a half old.

Premium Pro

I've has ProEar, Peltor Howard Leight, but once TGO let me borrow his MSA's after someone decided they should take my muffs at a match, I have not looked back. For me the MSA Sordins are hands down the best muffs I've used.