Graham Smith

Well, that makes sense now that someone says it. Perhaps the question should be, where do you find some if this information? I've read "ABC's of Reloading" and have the Lee Manual and extracts from a few other manuals, but I don't think I've ever read this. Anyone have a recommended reading list?

I know that this isn't rocket science, but all the variables do start to add up. Take overall length, for example. Different sources give different OALs for the same weight and type bullet. I'm guessing that this has something to do with bullet composition (e.g. lead, plated, jacketed, etc) and shape and cartridge pressure but I don't want to have to dig out my college calculus books when it comes time to work up a new load. Right now, I am concentrating on 124gr 9x19 and have worked with the Hornady 124 FP and the 125 HAP bullets as a starting place. The recommended OAL for the 124 FP is 1.050 but there is no recommended OAL on the HAP bullets since they were "designed" for 38 Super. I'm also going to be looking at both Berry and Montana Gold bullets and they are not going to be in any of the regular load manuals. So, within the range of the OAL such that fits, doesn't blows up and doesn't gets stuck in the barrel, there is a happy medium. How does one figure out what that is? IOW, where do these recommendations in the load manuals come from in the first place? Is it purely a case of trial and error or is there some logic to it? ------------------------------------- P.S. Does anyone happen to know the formula for figuring out how many politicians will fit in a hole 10x10x50 without compacting? We'll need to find a place to put all the incumbents that don't get re-elected next September and it's never too soon to start planning.

I'm going to be making up about a 1000 rounds of 9mm ammo to take to an outdoor range - no way to get my brass back. I figured that I would round up some once fired brass for the project. I see a lot of internet sites sell this, but I also know that there is likely going to be a lot of crap out there as well. Does anyone have a reliable company they have dealt with in the past?

Sounds good. Must give them a try. If I read your former post correctly, the JHP are jacked on the base?

It looks like a 115g Hollow point that they filled the hollow part up with lead to get to 121g. I don't get it. Tried them, nothing to get excited about. Thanks. By way of comparison, how would you rank the Montana Gold bullets for quality as compared to plated bullets from Berry and Rainier or jacketed from "big names" like Remington and Winchester which are comparably priced in bulk.

I was just looking at their products this morning and came across one that I could not figure out - 121gr IFP These acronyms drive me nuts! It seems that everyone has their own collection of acronyms. Their legend says IFP = International Full Pro but what the *bleep* is that?

Sometimes having a lot of options is good; sometimes bad; but always confusing. I've pretty well settled on 124gr 9x19 for my Glock, but now there is the question of Round Nose, Flat Nose, or Hollow Point. Then there is the question of FMJ vs Plated. Then there is the question of brand. I'm only shooting paper here so the major qualification is consistency and accuracy. For plated, I've heard good comments on both Berry and Rainier, with the price going to Berry. For jacketed, Hornady seems to have the edge (and I've already shot them and like them), but is more expensive than MagTech, Remington, or Winchester. So, let the battle of opinions begin - who's going to get my money this time?

OK. So I'm wrong. I can be wrong once and a while. The HAP bullets are a fair bit longer than I thought they were.

All the charts I have looked at have been for a 4" barrel (I think) and most for a 1:10 twist, both of which are close to my G19. And I did expect some differences but I figured it would be a lot closer than this. <sheesh> Well, now it looks like I need to shopping for a chronograph and some place to set it up. I've been shooting at an indoor range which is out of the question for that. There are a couple "rod and gun" type clubs in the area that might allow this. At this rate, I'm going to have to shoot twice as much to save enough money to pay for all the equipment

Here is another typical newby question that probably comes up all the time. Why is there so much difference between different load tables for the same cartridge, bullet, and powder combination. I'm trying to work up a load for a 9x19 that will give me around 1100 fps using a Hornady 124 gr FP bullet and Titegroup powder. This is mainly an exercise I designed for the sake of understanding how all the different factors work together. But it's also because this weight and velocity are a good starting point for a load that will consistently make the minor power factor. What I am finding however is that the various references I have give vary different velocities for the same weight bullet and powder. I have checked the Lee, Hornady, Speer, and Hodgdon. Speer is several tenths of a grain lower for all bullet weights. Lee and Speer are closer, but Lee is referencing a 125 gr bullet. Hodgdon may be the best source since they make the powder. But, still and all, these are supposed to be rigorously tested and based on good solid numbers, so I wouldn't expect to see as much variation as I am seeing. Just in case the powder was the issue, I looked up the same load using several different powders including 231 and Unique which have been around forever. Same issue - numbers just don't come close to agreeing. What am I missing or should I just get it over with now and buy a chronograph and figure out my own load tables?

Wow! That seems rather shallow (if that is the correct term). I don't have my book handy, but I think that the OAL for the same size JHP is around 1.06.

Interesting. I called Hornady and they said, "don't do it". Makes me wonder why. It may be a moot point for me anyway since I live in Delaware and New Jersey is just a stones throw away and they are very paranoid about hollow point ammo there (under some circumstances the fine for possession of any hollow point ammo is outrageous). I haven't gone there to shoot yet, but I just know that if I find I like these bullets, I'll also find a place in Jersey where I want to go shoot them and then I'll have to spend an age making sure that I'm not going to break any laws. Sounds a lot like more hassle than I want. <sigh> Thanks to all. Good information.

Now, you first have to promise not to laugh. I did say that I was new to all of this and I'm not used to all the assumed knowledge you have to have to get within 100 yards of a catalog. Having said that... I purchased some 9mm Starline brass and a selection of different Hornady 9mm bullets from Midway so that I could test a number of different loads for my Glock 19. One of the things I got was a box of 125gr HAP (Hornady Action Pistol) bullets. However, before the box was even opened, I ran across a reference to using these in 38 Super. I checked with Hornady and, sure enough, that's what they are designed for. Now, I suppose the fact that these are .356 rather than .355 should have told me something, but hells bells it's only .001 different and the catalog does say 9mm!! (told you not to laugh, darn it) Well, for $10.50, I'm not going to bother to return these to Midway but before I toss them or give them away, I'd like to know if there is any reason why I shouldn't use them in my G19. This may not be exactly what they were intended for but are certainly within tolerances for a 9mm and the design of the bullets is pretty interesting.

Would it help if I said that "the guy" is the owner? But I see your point. I was mainly thinking in similar terms - that I would like to be able to pickup my own stuff. I know that in one place I shoot, I should be able to recover about 75% of it. In another, it would be more like 30%. Do you mark the headstamp or the wall?

OK, here is another one that I'll bet there is an easy answer for. Starting with new handgun brass, does anyone have an established system for marking the brass as to how many times it has been loaded (other than the obvious one of putting a number on it with a felt pen)? A number of prior posts indicate that some people just keep reusing it until it "goes bad", so I'm guessing that the older the brass, the more closely it needs to be inspected. But I also guess that after about 10 loads it's probably a good time to retire anyway. Reliability is more important to me than cost, but I'm not going to throw out perfectly good brass after one use. One fellow I talked to at a local gun shop says he uses colored magic markers and has a system of marks and anything shot 6 times goes into the recycle bin. P.S. I figure if you're not going to be at least a little bit anal about these things, you should just go to Wally World and buy the white box special stuff and bang away.

Thanks to all. As I said, there is a lot of poor information out there and I think that some people with way too much time on their hands are responsible for a lot of it. After reading some of the other posts here, I decided to sign up and ask the question as it looked like I would most likely get a straight answer. I did hedge my bets a bit as I just rented a copy of Competition Reloading by Brian Enos to see if he said anything about it. I'm betting the answer is no.

I see that trimming has been discussed here before but this is a bit of a different take on it. I'm new to reloading and find that the wealth of (sometimes conflicting and inaccurate) information on the internet can be a real problem. For example, when it comes to the issue of trimming pistol cartridges (I currently only shoot 9mm luger) most books say measure and trim as needed, while most reloaders say don't bother. But I have also found some sources that contend that finding the proper case length so that the cartridge will headspace properly in an autoloader can significantly improve accuracy. And that routinely trimming to that length will really pay off in smaller groups. Has anyone had any experience with this? ---------------- Secondly, if routine trimming is to be done, I'm assuming that loading then becomes a three stage process with a progressive loader. 1. Run the brass through to size and deprime, but nothing more. 2. Inspect, measure and trim the brass. 3. Run the brass back through the loader for the full process. ---------------- Lastly, if I'm really going to bother with all this, what's the best trimmer for the job without spending another fortune on yet more equipment?