The Latest Girly-man Disorder

[Sam]

I just saw some twink, "forensic psycologist" on CNN. He's talking about some sort of post delivery trauma-crap that so-called men are experiencing after being in the dilvery room when their children are born. Gimme a friggin break!!!

I was there when my kid was born and it wasn't me who was having any trauma. The Doctor recommended that we sing during the actual arrival to help everyone relax. So, my my wife is going through all this pain and threatening to choke my worthless a$$ for doing this to her. (it was all my idea at this point) And to ease the tension, the Doc says "I'm a huge Jimmy Buffet fan, what's your favorite Buffet tune?" I didn't have to think for more that a second, "Great Fillin' Station Hold-up, Doc!" We started singin and laughing, (I love the line about the pellet gun) and my wife was really ready to kill me at this point, and we finished that song and started in on " Peanut Butter Conspiracey" when this little girl popped out, and we had been expecting a boy, and I was sooo relieved that I wasn't going to have to raise a boy, like my Mom's oldest one, and I just felt totally happy all over.

What could possible have been traumatic about that? One the other hand, my wife was in labor for 33 hours! If she could have gotton to a phone, she would have put out a contract on my life!

I could understand and be totally sympathetic if something went horribly wrong for the mother or the baby, that would be traumatic indeed. But any guy who thinks he had trauma during a normal child birth needs a swift kick in the butt. Hey girly-man, be more of a man that your wife is, OK?

[AikiDale]

I was traumatized when my son was born. After 29 hours in labor my wife delivers a baby boy. Of course I have to be there since it was all my fault, misery loves company and all. Finally the nurses kicked me out of the hospital and told me to come back the next day.

Understandably tired after two days with no sleep I go to the bar next door to the hospital with my mother-in-law. I had enough tequilla with beer chasers to be so traumatized I could not ride my motorcycle home and had to accept a ride from a more sober patron.

It was so humiliating! I'm still traumatized! I could have ridden the bike....might have forgotten to put my foot down when I stopped at lights maybe, but I could have ridden the bike!

[jhgtyre]

My wife had natural child birth after 24+ hours of labor and then hopped up off of the table and walked back to her room while the doc's were busy suctioning some crap out of our daughters lungs. I dare any man to tell her that child birth was traumatic for him!

-ld

[Rikarin]

I understand you think some men are pansies but men's sexual function is pretty fragile. So, have some sympathy. I do. I never tell him its small even thats true

I think New York Times's article has detail on the topic. It is gory and bloody scene you know?

----------------

A Perilous Journey From Delivery Room to Bedroom

By KEITH ABLOW, M.D.

Published: August 23, 2005

Josh was a man in his 40's I'd been treating for depression. His wife had given birth to their first child, a girl, three days before.

"Congratulations," I said.

"She's beautiful. A miracle," he responded.

"Amazing, isn't it?" I agreed, remembering the first time I held my own daughter.

"Just incredible." He shrugged, shook his head. His foot started tapping. "You were ... there?" he asked me, tentatively. "I mean, for the delivery?"

There. I could hear the other questions coming. I have heard them many times from men whose wives had given birth days or weeks before our sessions.

Even when I had been treating these men for a year or more, they always seemed uncharacteristically hesitant to broach this topic.

"I was," I said. I waited.

He nodded. "Incredible, isn't it?"

"It's a lot of things," I said, giving him permission to say more.

He relaxed a bit. The tapping of his foot slowed. "Where were you? The head of the bed?"

That was almost always the next question. "Just about the whole time," I said.

He winced. "I probably should have stayed up there, too."

"Why's that?"

"You know," he said with a smile.

He couldn't bear to say it. "You saw more than you wanted to?" I asked.

The smile left his face. "I just can't get it out of my mind."

"What about it?"

"Nothing."

I waited.

"I mean," he went on, "how are you supposed to go from seeing that to wanting to be with ... ?" He stopped, but his eyes kept asking the question.

"Right," I said. "It gets easier with time, for just about everyone."

Although no one seems to talk publicly about the problem, Josh is only one of dozens of men who have confided to me that witnessing the births of their children has made it difficult for them to be attracted to their wives, at least in the short run.

They seem to have trouble seeing them as sexual beings after seeing them make babies, trouble reverting to a mind-set in which their wives' sexual anatomy is just that - not associated with images of new life emerging through the birth canal.

In the age of the "new man," very little consideration is given to the potentially negative side effects of togetherness in the delivery room. Every man I have spoken with over the past few years knows he is expected to be with his wife when his child comes into the world.

How can anyone explain sitting out such a life-changing moment in the waiting room?

The trouble is that the moment turns out to be both intensely beautiful and potentially traumatic.

It is miraculous to see a baby's head emerge, and it can also be shocking. It is riveting to see an umbilical cord connecting mother and baby, but it can also be very disturbing. It is exciting to be asked by a doctor to cut that umbilical cord, but also potentially very frightening, even for otherwise rather fearless men.

And not every man gets over it. Several men have confessed to me that they never regained the same romantic view of their wives that they had before seeing them deliver children.

"They ended up having to cut her open to get the baby," one patient told me. "I saw it. I mean, how am I supposed to get that out of my head? Every time I look at the scar, it's like I'm seeing it again."

In the most striking cases, the symptoms that men experience come close to post-traumatic stress disorder, with its roots in the witnessing of an event that involves a threat to the physical integrity of self or others and responding with intense fear, helplessness or horror.

The symptoms, as my patients have reported, include recurrent and intrusive distressing recollections of the event and efforts to avoid recalling it.

I do not believe that most men suffer these symptoms. But some do. And predicting which men will be vulnerable to them is nearly impossible in a social climate in which men who admit reticence about being present in the delivery room risk being labeled throwbacks.

The fact that the subject is taboo also means that a man who is traumatized by the experience may be retraumatized again and again, with each child born to him.

"Honestly," one man, married for 12 years, told me, "I think one of the main reasons I don't feel attracted to my wife is that I saw her give birth three times. It's like I know too much about that part of her."

The mystery is gone. And while there are other contributing factors to the loss of passion in the man's marriage, one of them does seem to be his presence in the delivery room, three times.

And I'm not sure that the delivery is the only cause of men's psychological struggles during their partners' pregnancies.

I myself recall feeling as if the clinical focus on childbirth during prenatal classes, including the detailed descriptions of the placenta and the meconium, took away from the wonder of the process, rather than adding to it.

I don't know what is gained by showing the cross-sectional anatomy of a woman's torso to her lover.

Whether the father is present in the delivery room is a couple's personal decision, of course.

But it is a decision that involves potential gains and potential losses, and too few couples realize that fact or are willing to talk about it.

Women may want to consider the risks as they invite their partners to watch them bring new life into the world. For some of the passion that binds them together may leave their lives at the very same time.

[AikiDale]

Jeez. I got over the trauma of not being sober enough to ride my bike and we gave my son twin sisters shortly thereafter....

[Nik Habicht]

I'm pretty sure that there's no amount of knowledge of the female anatomy, that could diminish the wonder of looking at a child, that I had a tiny part in creating and getting to its birthday. I mean, C'mon, gimme a break here already ----- what kind of imbecile is traumatized by the birth of his child?

Sam ---- If I ever need to adopt a dad, you're looking better and better....

[standles]

I chalk this up to the urbanization or feminization of man.

Women wanted more sensitive men. Sensitive gobbleygook was drilled into the male populace mind. It was a nefarious plan of epic proportions. The media used mans own primal urges agaisnt him.

Man was slowly led to the realization that he HAD to be sensitive and cry at lifetime movies if he ever wanted to get into a womans pants again. Now the chickens have come home to roost. All the men who bought into it are pansified and thier sexual egos are to fragile to handle real life. Hell, I am suprised we don't see men suffering from post partum depression. Of course the women are now looking for that "different, dangerous, he-man" type that gets thier juices flowing.

I have seen men cringe at the sight of road kill, scared to get a mouse out of the house via a trap because it would hurt it. PUHLEEEZE....

Also Rikarin.. Thats quite nice of you to never tell them it's small. I also follw the same rules with women. I rarely ever tell them thier "features " are to small or otherwise not up to snuff. I follow what I was taught growing up. "be thankful for what was put before you and enjoy it without griping"

Later,

[tightloop]

Well, this definately makes me an old geezer, but why does the man need to be in the delivery room in the first place..he is extra in the scheme of things and totally worthless as far as skills go, so why is he there? To offer support, I don't think so, the woman is in such pain she just wants to kill him, so get the hell out..

As far as telling him it is little, Rikarin, that is why men should always try to marry women with small hands....makes it look bigger....and remember, if the guy knows what he is doing, at the end of the evening, you won't remember if it was large or not, and you will have a huge smile on your face...Now is you don't have a great big smile on your face and he did not know his business, then for goodness sakes do tell him it was small and he was incompetent...LOL

[SiG Lady]

"The mystery is gone."

Oh, for cryin' out loud, get a grip, guys. Babies aren't found behind cabbages or dropped gently by a stork. If you can shoot and process a deer, you can deal with a bit of childbirth. It's Life. Hell, on some occasions men find themselves in a situation to heroically help deliver their wives' babies... then feel an immense amount of pride in their participation and that they had what it took to do it. A true, decent man would do this when called upon.

[Rikarin]

Okey guys, it looked like I touched your nerve somewhere.

There are many women and many men. All are different. Some men might look like pansies, some women, like me, is a tomboy, who shoots and grapples and never miss watching UFC, i.e "musclinzated".

It would be nice if everybody can let other people live their lives in the why they want, without judging. Just let them be and you are letting me be.

[Merlin Orr]

"Some words are better left unspoken, some things are better left unsaid...."

[Hey QuicksDraw!]

Get a grip! I'm trying to figure out how to rip out my mental eyeballs from just THINKING about watching child birth. Ewwwwwwwww! Yuk-e! Blah. (Cleaning my tounge with teeth, spit.)

Ain't no way I would be in the delivery room. If she needed me to give her support we both got cell phones.

[robomanusa]

I saw all 3 of my kids born, didn't bother me......though it was kinda gross looking....

I also keep all the pornos hidden from the wife, she don't need to be getting no BIG ideas!........LMAO

[John Heiter]

I think Sig Lady might be on to something. Too many people live their lives these days without knowing and understanding the origin of things. More and more people are living their entire lives eating meat but never seeing an animal butchered, seeing babies all dressed up in Baby Gap but never seeing them born, etc. If you live your whole life sheltered from things like that and then all the sudden get exposed to it, it probably is pretty traumatic when you find out just how wet, bloody, smelly, etc. that nature can be.

[Merlin Orr]

....... it probably is pretty traumatic when you find out just how wet, bloody, smelly, etc. that nature can be.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes! True in a very broad application. So little rural life ( a wonderful classroom)nowdays that most never actually see how life starts - and stops.

[Larry White]

Merlin is right, those boys might have a problem down on the farm. I do recall that it never seemed to bother the bull much. My only worry with it was that it might happen again, and it did.------Larry

[pisgahrifle]

I chalk this up to the urbanization or feminization of man.

+1

Oh, for cryin' out loud, get a grip, guys. Babies aren't found behind cabbages or dropped gently by a stork. If you can shoot and process a deer, you can deal with a bit of childbirth. It's Life. Hell, on some occasions men find themselves in a situation to heroically help deliver their wives' babies... then feel an immense amount of pride in their participation and that they had what it took to do it. A true, decent man would do this when called upon.

+1, again.

A few months ago we went camping with a couple from MD. Wife is a friend of my wife- good, sensible, open-minded Jewish girl. Not pro-gun, but open to discussion. All around good kid. Husband... prominent Baltimore family, folks paid for private high school, UMD. Useless in the woods. Shocked that I was (gasp!) carrying knife, tomahawk and even a gun in the middle of nowhere- with extra ammunition! And I, being the knuckle-dragging savage that I am, slept with it within arm's reach! Shocked I spent most of the days getting wood, practicing fire-building, cooking, sharpening knives and tomahawks dulled from the day's work, hiking afield to find water and (gasp!) bathing in a river. He finally tried to man-up and section out a few mid-sized bits of deadfall I brought in. Wife was amazed that I knew how to do all these things. Being a WNC mountain boy, I was amazed the husband hadn't learned these things by the time he was ten. Husband was irritated. My wife was...proud.

The sad thing is that the husband's type is the future of urban America. It hasn't always been so, however. His dad- an awesome guy, BTW- spent a few years working cattle in Idaho after he finished Harvard. Even the elites of his day recognizes that a young man needed both a strong spine and constitution to succeed in the world, not an elitist attitude and soft hands.

[Jim Norman]

Let's see:

Meat, grown on small white palstic trays, wrapped in clear celophane.

Water, for washing, comes from a chrome or gold colored fixture on the countertop, for drinking, comes in small bottles with fancy labels and retials for more than gasoline.

Vegetables, neatly polished and stacked in rows on the grocer's shelves. OR if you are roughing it, bought at a Farm Stand.

Heat, controled entirely by that digital device on the wall in your home, each room of course having its own specific control.

Entertainment, provided by highly compensated persons that actually serve as defacto adult day-care. Heaven forbid I should actually attempt to usurp their position and entertain myself.

Information, gleaned from sound bites on radio or TV and occasionally from reading the headlines on the newspapers at the stand where I purchase my sports magazines.

Self-Defense, Obtained by dialing 911 and then hiding under my bed till the police arrive an hour or so later to take a report.

Far too many people fit the above today.

Jim Norman

[Nik Habicht]

Get a grip! I'm trying to figure out how to rip out my mental eyeballs from just THINKING about watching child birth.      Ewwwwwwwww! Yuk-e! Blah. (Cleaning my tounge with teeth, spit.)

Ain't no way I would be in the delivery room. If she needed me to give her support we both got cell phones.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Stewart ---- let's face it, you'd simply lock the keys in the car........

[Nik Habicht]

Well, this definately makes me an old geezer, but why does the man need to be in the delivery room in the first place

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'd want to use the opportunity to learn how to deliver a kid ---- in case there's no person more qualified handy, during any future experience with a woman in labor.....

[Alan Meek]

I was in the Delivery room when my wife had a Ceaserean 10 years ago. That was after 36 hours of labor. No trauma for me even when I looked back as I was leaving the room and say something I wasn't supposed to, no details for the board.

Alan

Edited to add, THe only thing that I had a problem with was the Lamaze classes, talk about trying to feminize men. They make it all about her and you are basically relegated to a slave, to keep her comfortable. After all I never understood why my wife took something poked at her in fun serious.

[tightloop]

Nik

Was a 91B20 in Nam....delivered two babies...don't need to do it again.

[MikeFoley]

I thought the whole experience was much more sterile and clean than field dressing a whitetail. It was just cool, not gross, not especially touching until the end, and certainly not traumatic. It is a matter of fact that dates back to beyond the written record of man. Birth happens. Some people deal with it differently, but then some people deal with a lot of things differently. If we are becoming too fragile, then the answer is that we have created this by escaping Darwin. It is no secret that we now go out of our way to protect people from themselves. It has to stop. I am scared of the mailman, but I still go to the door when he has a package. You gotta see this guy, ugly, mean, and nasty. The "hatchet" stage of pregnancy where nothing you do is right and you know you are going to wake up dead because she is nuts is much more traumatic than the birth IMO.

[SiG Lady]

The urbanization of both men AND women has taken its toll. Most people haven't a clue how to wash clothes by hand, cook decent food from scratch, raise their food, kill their food, grow vegetables, preserve food, chop wood, sharpen blades, deal with livestock or animals, plan healthful meals, care for wounds or injuries, avoid wounds and injuries, build outbuildings or homes, sew clothes and--of course--use/maintain weapons. And exercise...? Well, if you did much of the above-listed stuff, you'd never have to worry about Gold's Gym (or any similar institution) ever again!

This is why I hate apartment living. I feel like a caged damn' animal. I've lived in rural situations (or at least semi-rural) before where I had space to maintain proper life needs and store stuff and keep my tools and do my various kinds of work. Cripes, here in the apartment I have no storage, no garage, no shop, no potting bench, no garden, no place to do much of anything except re-load ammo, take a few pictures and hunch over at the computer. I am one VERY nervous, unfulfilled, caged animal. About 15 years of this has truly been 'traumatic' in a different sense. If postal workers can go "postal" for some frustrating reason, then I am right on the edge of going "apartment."

[AikiDale]

Awe Siggy! Don't go apartment on us. Go kill something and eat it. You'll feel better.