v1911 Posted June 25, 2016 Share Posted June 25, 2016 (edited) Had some time to load up 12 different load combinations using Bayou 124gr RN, Zero 147gr JHP and Acme 147gr FN. All shot very soft but there was some concern about some suspect primer signs of over pressure. Posted will be the chrony results, accuracy tests at 7 yrds and pics of the suspect primers. Note: I found atleast 1 suspect primer in each and every load configuration tested Chrony Results Acme 147gr FM: Prima SV: 2.8gr Avg: 883fps SD: 10 ES: 27 PF: 129 Prima SV: 3.0gr Avg: 917fps SD: 7 ES: 18 PF: 134 Prima V: 2.8gr Avg: 861fps SD: 6 ES: 17 PF: 126 Prima V: 3.0gr Avg: 897fps SD: 10 ES: 26 PF: 131 Zero 147gr JHP: Prima SV: 3.0gr Avg: 844fps SD: 10 ES: 25 PF: 124 Prima SV: 3.2gr Avg: 875fps SD: 3 ES: 8 PF: 128 Prima V: 3.0gr Avg: 826fps SD: 7 ES: 19 PF: 121 Prima V: 3.2gr Avg: 858fps SD: 3 ES: 8 PF: 126 Bayou 124gr RN: Prima SV: 3.2gr Avg: 1002fps SD: 13 ES: 38 PF: 124 Prima SV: 3.4gr Avg: 1049fps SD: 4 ES: 11 PF: 130 Prima V: 3.2gr Avg: 978fps SD: 21 ES: 57 PF: 121 Prima V: 3.4gr Avg: 1000fps SD: 9 ES: 27 PF: 124 Accuracy Tests (Best of the 5 shot groups in no particular order) Suspect Primers As far as the primers are concerned, it doesn't look promising. These were S&B primers. I wonder if the same would show true of CCI primers. I really like the feel of these powders. Felt just like my Clay Dot loads, but a bit cheaper cost wise. If I can't find a suitable 9mm load I may try using this in .45. Edited June 25, 2016 by v1911 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d_striker Posted June 25, 2016 Share Posted June 25, 2016 Thanks for posting. Definitely weird.....What kind of gun? It's strange that the pin strikes look like that while the edges of the primer still look very round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
v1911 Posted June 25, 2016 Author Share Posted June 25, 2016 (edited) Gans Guns 9mm Hmm, pointing out the round primer edges is a good observation. I'll take a look and see if there is damage to my firing pin. Update: Firing pin is ok. Edited June 25, 2016 by v1911 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JusticeOfToren Posted June 25, 2016 Share Posted June 25, 2016 How does it compare to N320 in terms of recoil feel? Is it flakes or sticks/balls? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d_striker Posted June 25, 2016 Share Posted June 25, 2016 (edited) Gans Guns 9mm Hmm, pointing out the round primer edges is a good observation. I'll take a look and see if there is damage to my firing pin. Update: Firing pin is ok. I had a gun a long time ago that had a large firing pin hole on the breech face. I don't even remember which one as it was over 12 years ago and I don't have it anymore. It would make primers look cratered around the pin strike. Not saying that's what's going on with your situation though. Especially if it doesn't do it with other ammo. Edited June 25, 2016 by d_striker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
v1911 Posted June 25, 2016 Author Share Posted June 25, 2016 How does it compare to N320 in terms of recoil feel? Is it flakes or sticks/balls? Very soft recoil. Comparable to Clays or N320. It's a granular powder. Almost like someone took Nerds (the candy) and shrank them down. It's unlike anything I've used before. Meters like a dream though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hi-Power Jack Posted June 25, 2016 Share Posted June 25, 2016 Looks promising - I usually find accuracy tests are more revealing at 20 - 25 yards, rather than at 7 yards, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDescribe Posted June 25, 2016 Share Posted June 25, 2016 Those primers aren't showing pressure signs, bro. You're good to go. The edges are still nicely rounded, and that little bit of primer splash is nothing. No worries. However, I too would have liked to have seen accuracy out at 20/25 yards. At seven yards, those groups are effectively the same. I would also suggest you develop more of a ladder to see what's going on with changes in velocity per incremental charge weight. Your load there that would be most pressure sensitive to charge increases is the 147gr ACME with SV, yet with the SV from 2.8gr to 3.0gr, you got an increase of 34 feet/sec. For a powder that's getting you to 917 feet/sec at 3.0gr with a 147gr lead bullet, 34 feet/sec is a pretty nice jump in velocity for a .2gr increase. BUT we can't really see how that's developing to predict where things will go with another increase. You might want to try these with 3 or 4 steps to the ladder. IF that works out this way: 2.8gr -- 8832.9gr -- 9003.0gr -- 917 If it works out that way, where you're getting 17 feet/second per .1gr, it would look like you could go a couple tenths higher, at least, without worry. However, if it's2.8gr -- 8832.9gr -- 9103.0gr -- 917If it works out that way, that big jump to 2.9gr would make it look like you needed 2.9gr to get a good pressure seal, and then the extra 7 feet/sec at 3.0 is a very small jump, suggesting you're quickly approaching the powder's useful limit on velocity with that bullet, and maybe shouldn't go further. And then there's everywhere in between, which is probably where these loads are. I'd be interested in seeing a 2.8/2.9/3.0/3.1 ladder with the SV. I have 3 pounds of Prima V and 1 pound of SV, all unopened and untested. I could be happy with Bullseye for 9mm minor forever, but I can't help but experiment. I think maybe it's time for some Vectan tests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tino2212 Posted June 25, 2016 Share Posted June 25, 2016 Primers look like being fired from a Beretta , dont think this is a pressure problem . But a slightly large firingpin hole in the breech face . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDA Posted June 25, 2016 Share Posted June 25, 2016 I get primers looking like that as well in 9mm and .40 with S&B primers fired from my Sig's and haven't been overly concerned with it. I shoot Beretta's as well, but I don't really rely on them to judge anything, as they always exhibit "primer flow" around the firing pin. Next time I'm loading, I'l try a few CCI primers for a comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
v1911 Posted June 25, 2016 Author Share Posted June 25, 2016 I'll try with CCI primers next time and report and changes. But it would seem the general consensus is that these are signs of over pressured round. Is that correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d_striker Posted June 26, 2016 Share Posted June 26, 2016 I'll try with CCI primers next time and report and changes. But it would seem the general consensus is that these are signs of over pressured round. Is that correct? I think the general consensus is that those are not signs of over pressure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
v1911 Posted June 26, 2016 Author Share Posted June 26, 2016 Right, I meant to say NOT signs of over pressure. Thanks for the correct. Again, if I happen to load up any using CCI, I'll make note and update. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noylj Posted June 26, 2016 Share Posted June 26, 2016 I am going to state my findings, even though I have been insulted for such. I always start at about the lowest starting load I can find. This only happens with 9x19, but it has happened twice. I start quite low and teice I have found flattened primers ( your primers look just fine next to these). Both times, the cases were covered in soot ( pressure too low to expand case) and gun didn't reliably cycle. So, I went to next increment up and got sooty cases, good cycling, and "perfect" looking primers. Thus, remember that primer flattening can be an indication of over-pressure, but it is not a guarantor. So, unless you also saw high velocity, high recoil, cases thrown further than normal, or something else, you may have just found the same thing I did. Again, those primers don't look worrisome at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
v1911 Posted June 26, 2016 Author Share Posted June 26, 2016 Once I get my CCP gun back from STI, I'll be working up some more 124gr loads. As requested, I'll work up .1 increments. I may or may not accuracy test out to 25 yards. My marksmanship isn't great, so my results my not be flattering to the gun or load. Also, CCI primers will be used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
v1911 Posted July 22, 2016 Author Share Posted July 22, 2016 Took the remainder of these sample loads and shot them through my XDm yesterday. Showed no primer flow. Odd that my STI did as there have been no previous issues with other loads and primer flow. I'll have my CCP gun back in hand today. I'll work up some more loads around the 124gr bullet and post my results as soon as next week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eggman Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 Thanks for posting the load and chrono data on Prima V and SV . I have not tried Prima SV but Prima V is now my go-to powder for 9mm minor . I'm getting very similar chrono results with same weight bullets . My Prima V 147 gr. loads feel softer than n-320 loads and I like the recoil impulse better than Clays or Clay Dot loads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
v1911 Posted July 22, 2016 Author Share Posted July 22, 2016 Like a kid after Xmas, I couldn't wait to shoot my Costa (CCP gun) and headed out again today. I still had about 50 rounds of assorted test loads. None showed primer flow and everything locked back reliably. Since I'm getting reliable slide lock with the 147gr, I won't need to experiment any further with either the 147gr or 124gr. Between the 3 different bullets and 2 powders, I have enough recipes for success. Next project: 147gr HST loads. Should have something to post in about a week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MemphisMechanic Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 Can you tell us what overall length you used for these loads? Without that, data is only somewhat useful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
v1911 Posted July 23, 2016 Author Share Posted July 23, 2016 Can you tell us what overall length you used for these loads? Without that, data is only somewhat useful. Doh! Thanks for pointing that out. OAL on all loads was 1.145 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDescribe Posted July 29, 2016 Share Posted July 29, 2016 (edited) I figured that rather than starting my own thread, I would add this to this thread to get more data in a single thread for future searchers: All loads shot through an HK VP9: Pistol: HK VP9 Bullet: SNS 135gr RN Powder: Vectan Prima V Primers: S&B Brass: Mixed Brass OAL: 1.155 3.4gr Avg fps - 971 fps | SD-6 | ES-19 3.5gr Avg fps - 983 fps | SD-7 | ES-17 3.6gr Avg fps - 992 fps | SD-5 | ES-17 3.7gr Avg fps - 1005 fps | SD-8 | ES-32 ___________________________________ Pistol: HK VP9 Bullet: Precision Delta 124gr JHP Powder: Vectan Prima V Primers: S&B Brass: Mixed Brass OAL: 1.125 3.7gr Avg fps - 1004 fps | SD-8 | ES-24 3.9gr Avg fps - 1030 fps | SD-9 | ES-29 4.0gr Avg fps - 1052 fps | SD-10| ES-29 ___________________________________ Pistol: HK VP9 Bullet: Bayou Bullets 124gr TCG Powder: Vectan Prima V Primers: S&B Brass: Mixed Brass OAL: 1.118 3.7gr Avg fps - 1041 fps | SD-4 | ES-13 3.9gr Avg fps - 1061 fps | SD-6 | ES-16 ___________________________________ The reason there are only two strings with the Bayou 124gr TCG is that I am effectively out of them. I've had a handful left sitting in a box for while and decided to do something with them. Those two strings ended up being the accuracy standouts for the day. That bullet is awesome. I need to buy more. Pistol: HK VP9 Edited July 31, 2016 by IDescribe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
v1911 Posted July 29, 2016 Author Share Posted July 29, 2016 The difference between our guns and what we got out of SV with the 124gr coated loads in quite dramatic. What only took me 3.4gr to achieve, took you 3.7gr with a shorter OAL. Very interesting indeed. Notice anything peculiar with your primers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOODS Posted July 29, 2016 Share Posted July 29, 2016 How about Prima V Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDescribe Posted July 29, 2016 Share Posted July 29, 2016 My BAD! This data is for Prima V. I edited the post. With me getting an extra 40 feet/sec than you for the extra .3gr of Prima V, I'd say our data is quite consistent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOODS Posted July 29, 2016 Share Posted July 29, 2016 My BAD! This data is for Prima V. I edited the post. With me getting an extra 40 feet/sec than you for the extra .3gr of Prima V, I'd say our data is quite consistent. Would you at the TC is more accurate than JHP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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