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Not knowing what I see


Nemo

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Although I’m in the office, I’m already in vacation mode… Will be taking the family to Puerto Rico for spring break to spend some QT with our relatives there, and of course hit the beach! Can’t wait to be on that plane Saturday! Since I don’t feel like working, today I’ve been thinking a lot about my shooting.

This could've easily been a reply on Infinity's "Blacking Out" thread, where Jerry and Carina posted what could've been answers to my questions here. So if any of the moderators or admins want to move it, feel free.

On and off (more off than on) I’ve been playing our game since 1996. Slowly developed a shooting style and/or technique that kept me satisfied based on the amount and quality of practice I put in… really not much. Shot a match per month and practiced the week before the match. Got involved in the politics of the shooting and basically had the fun factor sucked right out of the game, to the point that I didn’t care if I shot or not, nor how good or bad.

Fast forward to 2003>>>>> Moved to the CONUS, much more shooting, great competition, my kids are involved now. Now, close to my 40th BD I want to do good, want to perform better, have the hunger for that elusive next class card, want my sons to enjoy the sport with me and maybe someday be GM’s and want to be a good teacher to them.

Since moving here my shooting has progressed somewhat but basically because of the higher volume of lead sent down range. I shoot a match every other weekend and two or three majors (state and/or area matches) a year. I’ve began to study the game… Brian’s book, Steve’s drills (although I’m not practicing them with the frequency that I would like to), all the info on these boards. Now I observe and try to implement what would work for me. Where am I in 2005? Well, I’ve learned to “read” the stages better, to relax while waiting for the beep, to plan my shoot and shoot my plan and to make my shooting “smooth”, not fighting the gun or myself while moving through the COF.

But, what am I seeing? To tell you the truth, I don’t have the slightest clue! Do I black out as stated in Infinity's post? Not really, because as soon as the stage is over I look back at it and can somewhat replay how I did it. I think I call my shots, because in that mental instant replay I can tell how uncomfortable or nice any given target “felt”. But then, is this calling the shots? It feels like shooting on autopilot and my memory banks can’t retain the info that was processed during the COF for too long. I know I see my sights because I get the hits, but what kind of focus (as per PSBF) I had on any given target and my sights, I just can’t tell.

What’s wrong with this picture? Am I not aware of what’s going on during my shooting or is it that my awareness is happening at a level that is not up there with all my conscious thought processes? I would like to be able to explain to my kids what happened during my shooting of a stage, but I can’t… while my targets are been scored, that info kinda’ gets deleted.

What do you see and remember? Can you explain every single step you took during a COF and analyze your performance to correct flaws and implement changes if needed? I can’t. Is this not-knowing holding my shooting back?

Anyway, enough rambling… I have a vacation to daydream about! ;)

And as always please excuse my English...

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Nemo,

I can completely relate. When I shoot a stage I usually can either recall nothing or only small visual glipses of the stage (for instance sometimes that's a landmark I used for movement or the sight of steel falling in my periperal vision as I engage the next target). Yet I definitely know if I fired a hoper shot, or if I had a mike, or if I had all good shots, and I could tell you which targets those shots were fired on (hopers or otherwise).

I worried for a long time about this apparent lack of visual clarity, but it actually is a lack of memory from the event. I'm envious of Sevigny who can replay stages in his mind, I can't. But Jack Barnes has described in these forums a similar lack of remembering, so that's comforting.

One more thing Nemo. What personality type are you? I'm an ISTJ which is a type that has a need for additionally visualization training (which I lazily don't do). You might want to pick up a copy of a book Brian recommended long ago, Choose Your Best Sport, which is now out of print; it helped me realize what my strengths and weaknesses were. I had a heck of a time finding this book.

Hope this helps.

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I know what you mean. The best addvice I can give you, is the same advice that was given to me by "Squishy" -- Slow Down. Not a lot, but just enough to start seeing what you need to.

I shot this last weekend, and I clearly remember what I was seeing on all of the harder, longer distance shots, but on the up close hoser shots I don't remember anything. I think this is a good thing, since it shows how my focus was changing without me putting any real thought into it.

Cut it back just a touch. Fo me I am talking around 0.05 or less on my splits, which is well worth seeing and calling your shots. ;)

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Man...I am getting to where I hate it when I hear the advice of "slow down" (sorry). I suppose it might be a simple, and practical, method of getting the message to the shooter though.

What I hate about it is that it puts the focus of the shooting right back on the problem that it is trying to correct...on speed.

This might sound funny, but shooting fast doesn't really have a lot to do with speed.

When we talk about a term like visual patience, I don't think we are talking about slowing down...we are talking about seeing, first and foremost. It really doesn't take time to see...if you aren't distracted from the seeing...if you allow yourself to actually see.

I wouldn't be too worried about not being able to play the stage back in your head (like a video).

PSBF goes on all trips. It is amazing how well Brian covered all this "stuff" in the book...and, that we can pick up more and more of it with each read.

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Man...I am getting to where I hate it when I hear the advice of "slow down" (sorry).  I suppose it might be a simple, and practical, method of getting the message to the shooter though. 

What I hate about it is that it puts the focus of the shooting right back on the problem that it is trying to correct...on speed.

This might sound funny, but shooting fast doesn't really have a lot to do with speed. 

When we talk about a term like visual patience, I don't think we are talking about slowing down...we are talking about seeing, first and foremost.  It really doesn't take time to see...if you aren't distracted  from the seeing...if you allow yourself to actually see.

I wouldn't be too worried about not being able to play the stage back in your head (like a video). 

PSBF goes on all trips.  It is amazing how well Brian covered all this "stuff" in the book...and, that we can pick up more and more of it with each read.

Flex is right, it is not about slow or fast.

The perception of speed comes from the amount of chaos we are experiencing, not being aware of what is happening around you. If you focus on becoming aware, then you reduce the amount of chaos with time. You can then use the time that you used to use for processing the chaos for shooting, thus taking less time to shoot = shooting faster. Clear as mud?

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After much contemplation and being engaged in my own struggle with these very thing things, I've arrived at two conclusions:

1) The only thing you can be patient with is yourself. And;

2) fast, in our terms, really means being effecient and not wasting time.

I agree with Flex, slowing down in itself doesn't solve the problem. The things you need to see happen whether you're going fast or slow (read my tag below), it doesn't matter. Understand that everthing you need is already at hand and allow yourself to accept that. Of course I say this and I'm a bottom of the barrel B Limited shooter. YMMV.

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If I slowed down any somebody would have to come up with a timer with an 8 digit screen... :) Actually, I consider myself to be in the slow bunch and probably below BigDave in the bottom of the B-class barrel.

As I said, I've learned to plan my shoot and shoot the plan much better, and when I talk about not fighting the gun I guess it means just "driving it". Don't worry anymore about stance, I shoot how it feels natural at the time. Maybe need to work on my chaos management skills, so as not to spend too much time in the "Oh Shit!" lapse.

It's comforting to know that forgetting is a common thing, but does it mean that I'm "distracted from the seeing"? Maybe... I'm making a conscious effort to remember, to make myself pay attention to what I'm seeing. Maybe it should be the other way around... I'll figure it out someday. :wacko::huh:

Thanks a bunch for your replies guys. I'll have a cold one or two for each of you while sitting at the beach in Guánica... B)

Happy St. Pats' and have a good spring break!

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I also experience what you have seen. I took a class with Ron Avery and he said he could remember every shot on a stage. Hell I have trouble remembering my phone number. I can shoot a stage very well and not remember much. It seems what I do remember are the bad shots or the unexpected.

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Nemo

I think I'm on the edge of understanding how to get this under my control, but just barely. My struggle is to force myself to wait (aka visual patience) for the sight picture (which ever type is required for the shot). I find it difficult to consistantly be stubborn enough to not accept a poor sight picture. When I am able to acheive this level of control I experience a greater level of recall and clarity of the just completed stage. When under this control everything is very clear, all shots are easy to call, and makeup shots are not required. When this awareness or control diminishes is when the problems start, the shots get bad and the recall afterward is not available or reduced to a "feeling" (good shot vs bad shot).

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My struggle is to force myself to wait (aka visual patience) for the sight picture (which ever type is required for the shot).  I find it difficult to consistantly be stubborn enough to not accept a poor sight picture. 

Being stubborn enough to wait for the proper sight picture...that is a good way to think about visual patience.

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The perception of speed comes from the amount of chaos we are experiencing.

That's a great line!

I can (still) recall sooo many strings of fire in which I can remember every detail of what I saw - read every shot as precisely as it could be read - and in none of those memories is any recollection of passing time at all.

I can also remember stages in which I couldn't remember much visual detail at all, and even though I shot well on them, I always felt as if I "got away with it." By far, I learned to prefer the total "immersion" method, as opposed to the "it felt right" method.

If I ever felt rushed while trashing a stage, later, The Great One's words would always come back to haunt/help me: (uttered in a somewhat condescending tone) "You've been doing this long enough to know that you shouldn't be aware of how fast you are shooting while you are shooting."

;)

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