Shooter Grrl Posted March 10, 2005 Share Posted March 10, 2005 I paid for my CRO Correspondence course in the middle of January and haven't heard anything back yet.... what's all y'alls experiences been with the wait time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tman33_99 Posted March 10, 2005 Share Posted March 10, 2005 Hey Kath, If I remember correctly, I sent in for mine about April last year, and was put under Dr. Perry Wilson's care sometime in late June. So it was 2 or 3 months. I know then, part of the delay was the new rule book and that is what they wanted for the CRO course at that time, so I worked off of a PDF printout copy. I am sure it was late June or early July, because I was a little over 1/2 way before I headed off to Italy and had to put my CRO on hold. Travis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Heiter Posted March 10, 2005 Share Posted March 10, 2005 Kathy, I feel your pain. FLAME ON> Apparently everyone in Sedro has been focused on stuff for Nationals and they don't have time to deal with the little items like NROI Classes. Actually, I shouldn't say "everyone" because I don't know that for a fact. I DO know that *** ******** who is in charge of NROI seminar scheduling and RO certifications is very difficult to deal with. I've been trying to schedule a level I class for my local club for almost a month now. I took care of all of the leg work myself by contacting the instructor and finding a date that worked for both of us before I even contacted her. All she had to do was confirm the date with the instructor and put us on the calendar so I could start signing people up. Over the course of a couple weeks, I e-mailed her, e-mailed her again when I didn't hear from her, called her and left a voice mail, and finally called and asked to speak to her manager. When I told the receptionist what was going on and that I wanted to speak to this person's supervisor about the problem, she suddenly became available to take my call. Turns out she had gotten all of my communications but had been too busy to contact me. She assured me she would work on it. Well, here I am a week later and I haven't heard anything from her and yet another e-mail sent a couple days ago has gone unanswered. In the meantime, a club in my area has scheduled their section championship for the weekend I wanted to have the class so all the shooters who were wanting to attend are going ahead and signing up for the match since I have no definite info. on my class. Looks like I need to put in another call to Sedro tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted March 10, 2005 Share Posted March 10, 2005 Heh heh - don't sweat it John. I'll come teach your course... Let's see... the first range command *IS* "Stoke 'em up, Cowboy!!!!", right???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynn jones Posted March 10, 2005 Share Posted March 10, 2005 can't take the hint huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimberley Posted March 10, 2005 Share Posted March 10, 2005 That's alright, John, you can use my name. I assure you my feelings aren't easily hurt. Rather than deal in hearsay and let the rumors and slander fly, let's get a few facts straight and nip this in the bud right now. And let's get it straight from the horse's mouth, shall we? Kathy, to answer your question first: it typically takes anywhere from 2 weeks to 30 days to get a candidate assigned to a mentor. However, as you all may or may not be aware, NROI has gone through quite a regime change lately. Bill Kehoe retired, Mike Braun retired, Arnie Christianson resigned and John Hurst is on an indeterminate hiatus. This left us with quite a big gap in our instructor corps. We tried to fill that void as quickly as possible, but we would be doing the organization a BIG disservice if we just stuck any ol' warm body in those positions with little or no training. Therefore, we went out of our way to find just the right instructors and give them rigorous preparation with which to build a strong foundation for their teaching careers. After their certification as instructors they are initially only certified to teach level one courses. With more training they will be allowed to teach level II courses and take on Correspondence Course students. What this means to you is that due to all of this, we basically only have Amidon, Worden, McManus, and Wilson who are currently certified to take on CRO students for the whole of the organization. Hirst, Helm, Stevens, and Schmidt, our new instructors and instructor-trainees, are all working very hard at getting the training necessary to go there as well, but it takes time. I realize it seems unfair to pay for something and have to wait months for it to come to fruition. It's not our intention for it to be that way. Trust me, we would LOVE to see all of you go through the program as quickly as you would like to go through it. However, by the same token, it wouldn't be fair to overload our instructors past the breaking point either. We have to keep in mind that they have regular day jobs and families and in addition to the correspondence courses, they are also teaching weekend classes and working matches and once in awhile they hope against hope for the ability to shoot a match. It WILL get better. We will get those new guys certified and be able to spread the students around a little more and get people through the course a little faster and it won't take so long to get you assigned to someone. In the meantime, if the wait isn't worth the $45 to you, you're more than welcome to request a refund. We won't hold it against you. As for your seminar request Mr. Heiter, I won't take a lot of time here defending myself or refuting the false things you said. I don't feel it's necessary. I think my work speaks for itself. All I'll say is that after receiving your email regarding your class I spoke with the instructor and he told me he would contact you directly. I left it at that. I can't control what others do or don't do. You are, however, more than welcome to call and speak to my "manager" (that would be Dave Thomas, Executive Director) at any time, that doesn't worry me in the least. I hope this clears things up a bit regarding the CRO class. Feel free to reach out to me if you have any more questions about any of this. Thanks for your time, Kim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mactiger Posted March 10, 2005 Share Posted March 10, 2005 Just to add to what Kim has said, and to put a little perspective on why it seems to be taking a while to get scheduled/assigned: Currently, I have 10 CRO correspondence students active, plus 2 RM and 1 TD candidate active. I also have 2 level one seminars scheduled, an NROI Instructor's conference, and staffing for Nationals on my plate. Carl Schmidt and I are also working on a level one presentation geared toward 3 gun competitions. And, I'm always looking for new and interesting material for the level one and two seminars, as well as answering a couple of rules questions a day. Since I work an every other weekend off schedule, 12 hour days, and lots of overtime (since people do take vacation and get sick), that doesn't leave a lot of time for doing all the things I like to do, like NROI stuff, shooting, goofing off with my kids, etc. I think a lot of the other instructors have the same sort of problem--not enough hours in a day, or days in a week. I do know that Kim has been extremely busy, because she handles slot distribution for Nationals, NROI matters (which includes taking the time to deal with all the instructor's problems as well as member requests and certifying new range officers), Nationals staff correspondence, making hotel and other room arrangements for all Nationals, Instructor's conference, and putting together both the NROI and Nationals web pages. Now, don't get me wrong: I'm not bitching and neither is she. I do what I do because I love it, and I love the sport, so I work it as well as I can. I do think it's important that you be aware of how much time some people spend on USPSA work, whether they are being paid for it or not, before you castigate them in a public forum such as this one. NROI is working hard to improve what we do, but some things take time, which is a precious commodity these days. Troy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul B Posted March 10, 2005 Share Posted March 10, 2005 I realize that we often (me included) are pretty miserly about how much needs to be spent to run USPSA "Home Office," but what I just read in this thread would seem to indicate a fairly high work and frustration level in our staff there and maybe they could use some additional staff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schoonie Posted March 10, 2005 Share Posted March 10, 2005 Kim Troy, Thanks for the update, a little information like that goes a long way toward everybody having a better understanding of the process. I had no idea that NROI had been turned on its ear! As a shooter I want to thank you for all your efforts, it's the guys behind the scenes that really make it happen and I appreciate that it happens right! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
short_round Posted March 10, 2005 Share Posted March 10, 2005 I do think it's important that you be aware of how much time some people spend on USPSA work, whether they are being paid for it or not ... ... I was about to go on a huge rant, but maybe this is not the place for it. All I really want to say is thanks to everyone who works so hard so that others can play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shooter Grrl Posted March 10, 2005 Author Share Posted March 10, 2005 I'm cool with waiting... I was just trying to get a feel for the actual wait time. BUT, my ultimate goal is to become an NROI instructor, so the faster you get me through, the sooner I can start another year of waiting to take the next step ;p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precision40 Posted April 25, 2005 Share Posted April 25, 2005 I just received my CRO package Thursday. I was only on the waiting list for 1 month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimel Posted April 26, 2005 Share Posted April 26, 2005 As further information: The new rules required a substantial rewrite of the Level 2 Coorespondence course. I know this only because I got to be one of the beta testers back in November/December when I did my Level 2 with Jay Worden. I had been on "the list" for about 4 months by then. There were some problems with the new materials (actually, it was a problem with some of the old stuff that stayed in the new version and no one caught some interesting changes in rule numbering leading to some humorous results) so I suspect there was more work to do to get the bugs ironed out before they could go forth with the new version in a production fashion. My instructor and I worked through the course, bugs and all, and I found it to be a great experience. I would still like to sit in on a "real" Level 2 seminar to get the benefit of all the in class interaction. I also organized a Level 1 course for a local club earlier this month. Thing got held up a bit as the various retirements and resignations Kim mentioned earlier along with some health issues for other instructors had the instructor corps spread real thin. Kim, Jay and the rest of the NROI staff have always treated me very professionally and I have nothing but praise for any of them. Emails weren't always returned instantly...but that is why there is that thing called the telephone. My calls to Kim were either answered by Kim or returned within minutes. I have also heard that NROI is enforcing the "must be Level 1 for a year before taking the Level 2" rule now. So if you sent in your application and haven't "done your time" then they may hold the application up until your time has been served. Again...this is only rumor at this point. Please don't flame Kim, John Amidon or anyone else until you read the official ruling. Hope that helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shooter Grrl Posted April 26, 2005 Author Share Posted April 26, 2005 I got my package Friday! Not too long of a wait. Does anybody know if they'll let me start the Range Master course during the CRO year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimel Posted April 26, 2005 Share Posted April 26, 2005 You have to be a CRO for 2 years to start the RM course according to the NROI website. If they are holding the RM course to the same rumored rules as the Level 2 course then I seriously doubt it. Have fun with the Level 2 course. I had a blast! I was almost sorry when it was over. Who is your RMI Kath? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precision40 Posted April 26, 2005 Share Posted April 26, 2005 If they are holding the RM course to the same rumored rules as the Level 2 course then I seriously doubt it. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I took the RO class in January, sent off for my CRO package last month and am now taking it. Troy told us in the class that you can take the CRO course with <1yr as an RO, but you won't be officially certified until you've met the 1yr requirement as an RO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mactiger Posted April 26, 2005 Share Posted April 26, 2005 If they are holding the RM course to the same rumored rules as the Level 2 course then I seriously doubt it. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I took the RO class in January, sent off for my CRO package last month and am now taking it. Troy told us in the class that you can take the CRO course with <1yr as an RO, but you won't be officially certified until you've met the 1yr requirement as an RO. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> It used to be the case that we would allow an RO to get into the CRO correspondence program while serving their year as RO, but because of deliberate and inadvertent abuses of the system (getting your CRO before you have been certified for a year, same with the TD program), NROI has tightened up the "time in grade" certification requirements. You can no longer get into the CRO program until you have been certified as an RO for one year. You cannot get into the RM or TD programs until you meet the requirements for those respective programs, which, I believe, are two years as a CRO. I guess you could send your stuff in before you have a year of RO service, but you won't even be put in line until your year is up. Hope this helps. Troy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shooter Grrl Posted April 26, 2005 Author Share Posted April 26, 2005 Nope doesn't help me at all Troy That means that I really have to wait THREE years, and possibly FOUR to finish the RM course, as I understand that one of the requirements is to design, build and run a stage at the Nationals. I was really hoping to get that part done next year I got Carl for my instructor. My first email to him asked him who he ticked off to get stuck with me I've known Carl for years and consider him a good friend. We've been through a lot together. So much so that he calls me Trouble, and I answer to it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimel Posted April 27, 2005 Share Posted April 27, 2005 NROI website says "nationals level match". Nats are Level III, so are Area matches thanks to the 2004 Rulebook. Guess that it all depends on the definition of "level". If any Level III qualifies then that makes things significantly easier...especially for those of us that live in the sticks. Guess I'll worry about that in 20 months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shooter Grrl Posted April 27, 2005 Author Share Posted April 27, 2005 Hey, no fair - you have a 4 month head start Kevin did you do the CRO Correspondence or regular? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Heiter Posted April 27, 2005 Share Posted April 27, 2005 I took the CRO corespondence course a couple years ago and I'll be elligible for the RM course June 12th...but I don't think I'm going to take it. I got a lot of practical knowledge out of taking the Level I and II courses that helped me as a shooter, stage designer, and match director but, looking though the course description, I don't see a whole lot of benefit to the RM course for me personally. I've had to set up and run a couple of state/section level matches, including staffing, squadding, stage design and placement based on available berms, etc. over the last couple years so it looks like I've covered the majority of the exercises with real experience. Not sure that was the best or easiest way to learn how to do it but it's done so... Anyway, I think the RM program is probably good for people who haven't had to do that yet. I'm going to hold out for a "Match Director" course. I need help learning how to attract more vendors, suggestions on the best way to handle prize tables, etc. Until they come out with that course, I guess I'll stick with gleaning tips from the forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shooter Grrl Posted April 27, 2005 Author Share Posted April 27, 2005 Yo Patches - they DID come out with that! It's called a Tournament Director and specifically covers prize tables and match administration. I was just looking at it tonight at http://www.nroi.org The only reason I'm doing Range Master is cause it's a step to getting to my ultimate goal which is to, hopefully, become an Instructor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimel Posted April 27, 2005 Share Posted April 27, 2005 Yep. But 4 months isn't much of a lead. I did it correspondence. Started 03 November and finished 01 December. E-mail REALLY makes it go faster. I do think more can be gained in a classroom situation because people can discuss (argue) the arbs and several people can pick apart the COFs. But as hard as Level 1s are to put together out here "in the sticks" I pretty much knew that correspondence was the only way to go...for now. I wanted to get as much out of the course as I could. I did a lot of the arbs several times taking various tactics through them. I determined a couple points of view (Shooter & RO usually) and then worked it through from each point. That was really a double-edged sword because I managed to talk myself out of the correct decision at least once. However Jay set me straight quickly. But arguing some of them from the shooter's point of view and digging through the rule book trying to support a postion that was mighty flimsy was "enlightening". We are shooting my final exam field course in July. Shot my standards a couple months ago. That is a real cool feeling seeing something you worked so hard on go into production and people running it. I had felt my standards course was perhaps too easy when it was all over and done with. But given the level of bitching and threats to dump my range bag in the porta-potty I think it may have been more challenging than I originally thought. It didn't help that I won that stage. Now I REALLY want to work Nats but my work schedule just isn't playing fair this year for either the handgun or 3-Gun Nats. Maybe next year.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimel Posted April 27, 2005 Share Posted April 27, 2005 Kath an RMI? Now THAT would be cool! Hey...has there ever been a female RMI? I am interested in that track too. Watch out Amidon...here we come! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shooter Grrl Posted April 27, 2005 Author Share Posted April 27, 2005 Kath an RMI? Now THAT would be cool! Hey...has there ever been a female RMI?I am interested in that track too. Watch out Amidon...here we come! :D <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Aw shucks - you're making me blush. Thanks for the vote of confidence! Do you really think USPSA is ready for me I don't know if there's been a female RMI... I don't think I've heard one mentioned anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now