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40 Open


splashdown

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Splashdown,

If the dot is leaving the lens then play with your loads some more, you should be able to see the dot thru-out the entire recoil stroke, it will go straight up to near the top, and then down to the bottom with maybe a bit of lateral movement, then back to center.

jj

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The load that I have settled on for my EGW comp gun pretty much leaves the dot on the horizontal and just wiggles side to side as a function of your grip. I had 2 9mm open shooters try it and they were rather impressed with the flatness. That is a 135 gr bullet at about 1250-1275 FPS. I like it! :D

The flat shooter is the one on the bottom. The top one (Schuemann Tribrid II) is not so flat. That gun has had it's slide lightened since this picture was taken. It may just wind up with a EGW comp also.

TheTwinsRightSide.jpg

Later,

Chuck

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Tried out the 40 open gun today. The load worked out great. When sighting in the dot leaves the lens, but in action shooting mode, it returns pretty quick for splits and transitions. I'm having some trouble adjusting the elevation, but the windage is right on. I'm going to shim it some to see if that will get me on target.

Now, where do I sign up for the cookies?

And some more good news, my buddy Albert picked up the .38 super shorty w/ slide mounted Docter that's been in the classifieds. That gun is pretty sweet. Atta boy, Albert :cheers:

Hold up, Albert Lim? or Albert B? Landon's open gun? Nice

Edited by Aristotle
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The load that I have settled on for my EGW comp gun pretty much leaves the dot on the horizontal and just wiggles side to side as a function of your grip. I had 2 9mm open shooters try it and they were rather impressed with the flatness. That is a 135 gr bullet at about 1250-1275 FPS. I like it! :D

How long have you been shooting the load you settled on?

I've talked with at least two top gunsmiths who said they've built guns and found loads that were totally flat (just a little wiggle like you describe) but none of the really good M/GM shooters that tried them could use them....they simply couldn't call their shots.

I've heard the similar comments from a few other really good Open shooters as well which is what makes me wonder.

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The load that I have settled on for my EGW comp gun pretty much leaves the dot on the horizontal and just wiggles side to side as a function of your grip. I had 2 9mm open shooters try it and they were rather impressed with the flatness. That is a 135 gr bullet at about 1250-1275 FPS. I like it! :D

How long have you been shooting the load you settled on?

I've talked with at least two top gunsmiths who said they've built guns and found loads that were totally flat (just a little wiggle like you describe) but none of the really good M/GM shooters that tried them could use them....they simply couldn't call their shots.

I've heard the similar comments from a few other really good Open shooters as well which is what makes me wonder.

I have been using that kind of load in the EGW gun since Oct 07 (that's when the gun was born) and in the hybrid since July 04. The hybrid has more muzzle flip due to the lower effectiveness comp. I shoot the EGW better.

Later,

Chuck

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The new Winchester Auto-Comp powder may have good Open .40 possibilities. Especially with the 135 and 155 bullets. The major 9/38S and 38SC folks have pretty eliminated it for there use because it's to fast. We'll see.

Jim

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Jimmy why would 40 open guys want to use a fast powder for open?

I use Power pistol because it's mid range and it develops plenty of gas and pressure to work my comp with the 135's.

I'm interested in the autocomp powder.

No direct experience with it. Sounds like it's just a bit to fast to push light bullets to major velocities. Pressure signs are cropping up. Could be right where we want though for 135/155's in our .40's. Somebody out there needs to ''speeramint" for us :). I would but haven't seen Auto-Comp in these parts.

Jim

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I might be able to get some and try it out, I would have to ask my dad though lol. I saw a book spec a while back for power pistol and the pressure was around 34,000 PSI and it was with a 135 JHP at around 1340 fps. But its all different I guess based on the gun and the individuals taste. I personnally like the light bullets flying fast with a good amount of gas and pressure that is safe.

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That would be Albert B. :cheers: We get to start shooting open together at the same time and you get to show us what you've learned so far.

Sweet!

I've only got 5 matches over you guys.

You ever see that bumper sticker that reads...

"Don't follow me, I'm lost too." :roflol:

I'm sure we'll have a good time learning alot this season. I'm ready for some sun. :cheers:

Edited by Aristotle
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Let me clarify here... I thought you were trying to push a 180grain bullet with Clays to make the comp work. If you're shooting your limited load, have a it. Have you chronoed it out of the comped barrel?

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Let me clarify here... I thought you were trying to push a 180grain bullet with Clays to make the comp work. If you're shooting your limited load, have a it. Have you chronoed it out of the comped barrel?

:) No need to clarify Nemo...

Yes, it's just my regular Limited load. It chrono's in at ~960 FPS. The combination of the nose weight and modest comp function makes for a "still" gun. I've used other weights and powder but keep coming back to the 180/Clays load. The 155 grainer's really interest me plus the lighter bullets seem to function better in my bigstick. Thinking with my gun the 155's are the way to go.

Jim

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So I've got my optic sighted in now but I'm still working on a load. I wanted to use Rainier 135 gr bullets, but I'm having trouble finding them at a reasonable price. The first bullet I've tried is a Bear Creek 140 gr RNFP loaded to 1.170" COL. The first powder I've tried is Silhouette at 9.0 gr, then 8.6 gr. The 9.0 gr load chronoed at 178 PF, but I haven't chronoed the 8.6 gr load. The 9.0 gr load give me more muzzle flip, but the 8.6 gr load is still too much flip. So I pulled up this article from Brazos that I remember from a while back.

http://www.brazoscustom.com/magart/0607.htm

I did the test Bob did, but it was with a dangled paper target at an indoor range, not a cardboard target on sticks. The muzzle blast was much bigger than Bob got and even ripped the target, but not as badly as a limited gun would. So does this indicate I have more gas volume than the comp can handle? If so, I think I should try a faster powder. PINMANN likes Power Pistol with his 155 gr bullets. I'll need to find some load data for my 140's to see if it's even an option.

What do you guys think I should try next? I really like these bullets so far and prefer to stick with them, although I could step up to Bear Creek's 155 grain SWC which are sold at the same cost.

Thanks for the help.

splash

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So I've got my optic sighted in now but I'm still working on a load. I wanted to use Rainier 135 gr bullets, but I'm having trouble finding them at a reasonable price. The first bullet I've tried is a Bear Creek 140 gr RNFP loaded to 1.170" COL. The first powder I've tried is Silhouette at 9.0 gr, then 8.6 gr. The 9.0 gr load chronoed at 178 PF, but I haven't chronoed the 8.6 gr load. The 9.0 gr load give me more muzzle flip, but the 8.6 gr load is still too much flip. So I pulled up this article from Brazos that I remember from a while back.

http://www.brazoscustom.com/magart/0607.htm

I did the test Bob did, but it was with a dangled paper target at an indoor range, not a cardboard target on sticks. The muzzle blast was much bigger than Bob got and even ripped the target, but not as badly as a limited gun would. So does this indicate I have more gas volume than the comp can handle? If so, I think I should try a faster powder. PINMANN likes Power Pistol with his 155 gr bullets. I'll need to find some load data for my 140's to see if it's even an option.

What do you guys think I should try next? I really like these bullets so far and prefer to stick with them, although I could step up to Bear Creek's 155 grain SWC which are sold at the same cost.

Thanks for the help.

splash

That's a tough call. Even if the load is producing excess gas volume I don't think going to a faster powder with less gas volume will help reduce the flip.

If you watch any of the slow motion video of Open guns the primary (but not the only) cause of flip is the slide stopping at the end of it's travel. Have you tried different recoil spring weights? Obviously the comp helps reduce flip, bu it can only do so much and a lot depends on the weight of the slide.

The other thing might possibly be technique. I think we tend to underestimate the amount of wrist, forearm and body we put into resisting flip and recoil. Look at pics of most good Open shooters and their forearms are showing plenty of muscle tension. Then think about what happens when you see Open shooters on strong hand only or weak hand only classifier strings...lots more flip. That tells me the gun/comp isn't doing all the work. R,

Edit to add:

I just went back to look at the pics of your gun and with the size of the ports on your comp I find it hard to imagine they can't use all the gas your load will generate. Both of my guns have much smaller, and fewer ports and I'm running 10.5gr of N105 which is very slow....dot rises to between something 2 and 2.5 out of 5 in the lens.

Edited by G-ManBart
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Thanks G-Man. It just sounds like Bob is suggesting it's not all about volume, and pressure is another key component. Slightly faster powder should give more pressure at the expense of volume, right? I didn't think to bring different recoil springs to the range with me. I've got a 10 in the gun and also have an 11 and a 12 on hand.

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Thanks G-Man. It just sounds like Bob is suggesting it's not all about volume, and pressure is another key component. Slightly faster powder should give more pressure at the expense of volume, right? I didn't think to bring different recoil springs to the range with me. I've got a 10 in the gun and also have an 11 and a 12 on hand.

I think Bob makes a good point there and pressure has to factor into it. Smaller ports effectively increase the gas pressure as it exits so larger ports might very well benefit from higher pressure even at the expense of gas volume. That's why ports usually get smaller towards the front since the pressure that gets to them is going down after each baffle. It's certainly easy enough to try a powder that's one or two steps faster and see what happens and then play with recoil springs. Interesting stuff....curious to see how it pans out. R,

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I have a question about .40 open guns. I assume you guys are taking a standard dia. 6" barrel and cutting it down to 5.5", or what is required, threading it and adding a cone comp then reaming the comp to .40 right? I looked at building one years ago and remember seeing a .40 barrel and comp kit but now that I have started looking again there is nothing. Much like everyone else I have lots of stuff for .40 and a limited STI in .40 and don't want to invest in dies, brass, mags and all the usual stuff.

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I took my old 5 inch bull barrel from my limited top end, turned the muzzle end down to accept a cone comp, trimmed the length back to 4.5 and shortened the slide as well. Just waiting on some lathe time to turn the threads and ream the comp. Overall length will be very close to my 6 inch top end.

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JKB,

Mine was a 5" Schuemann Tribrid II (bull barrel w/ rib). It was turned down to classic diameter and threaded for a cone comp. Gary Natale (www.gansguns.com) did the work and he offers several comps in .40 (check out Models 4, 5, & 12). Mine's a Model 5 with bleeders in the last two chambers. You're looking at the .40 open for all the reasons I got into it. I've only shot my gun twice and haven't settled on a load yet. Once I do, I will report on my experience here in this thread.

splash

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