Moon Clips VS Speed Loader

[Cherryriver]

Last time I read the IDPA book on revolver rules, you couldn't convert a gun to moonclips at all in either SSR or ESR; the gun has to be manufactured that way.

I don't believe there's a .36 cal that fits into ESR at all.

[Tom E]

Last time I read the IDPA book on revolver rules, you couldn't convert a gun to moonclips at all in either SSR or ESR; the gun has to be manufactured that way.

PERMITTED Modifications (Inclusive list):

6. Conversion from rimmed to rimless ammunition.

I would suspect this means mooclip conversion is allowed or there would be a list of approved methods of poking the rimless cases out of the cylinder.

That's for ESR. SSR prohibits moonlips and requires rimmed cases.

Edited October 24, 2008 by Tom E

[Cherryriver]

I guess I need to look at the little book more often.

Now, if I read it really close, it only looks as though you could use .38 Super or one of the derivatives like .356TSW, if you were looking to make a .36 work in ESR. That's a narrow thing. I'm not sure you could use a moonclipped .357 under this wording.

Of course, we're talking about revolver rules in IDPA, so it's mostly a technical exercise. I'm going back to counting these angels on the head of this firing pin.

Bill

[Tom E]

I guess I need to look at the little book more often.

Now, if I read it really close, it only looks as though you could use .38 Super or one of the derivatives like .356TSW, if you were looking to make a .36 work in ESR. That's a narrow thing. I'm not sure you could use a moonclipped .357 under this wording.

Of course, we're talking about revolver rules in IDPA, so it's mostly a technical exercise. I'm going back to counting these angels on the head of this firing pin.

Bill

I agree. I thought about IDPA once, the more I read the rules, the less I thought about it.

[festus1]

I guess I need to look at the little book more often.

Now, if I read it really close, it only looks as though you could use .38 Super or one of the derivatives like .356TSW, if you were looking to make a .36 work in ESR. That's a narrow thing. I'm not sure you could use a moonclipped .357 under this wording.

Of course, we're talking about revolver rules in IDPA, so it's mostly a technical exercise. I'm going back to counting these angels on the head of this firing pin.

Bill

Any caliber gun .355 or larger that can safely make 165 PF is ok for ESR. Per HQ 9mm is NOT allowed in IDPA in ESR OR SSR. It is fine to use .357 mag, 38 super, .40 etc. making 165 PF with moon clips for ESR.

Most of these horses have been beat to death and then some. There are not that many edges to be gained any more. Shoot what you enjoy most. I never look at the scores and glory in the fact that I won or was competitve against my little class - I check out how I compared to the ESP and SSP Masters. Now if I had fun and came even close to them on a stage it was a good match. Sorry for the drift.

[section30]

anyone have some words of wisdom on which would be the better way to go? FYI it's a S&W K frame in .38/357. overall cost would be less for speed loaders than the moon clips and machine work. i'm not much of a revolver shooter (or anything else) but i have fun so a tenth of a second or whatever on a reload isn't going to be a big deal to me. thanks in advance for any help

I hate to admit it, but there is a guy here in our club who can reload his Model 19 using comp IIIs just as fast as most of our N frame moonclip shooters!

Charlie

[Bubber]

anyone have some words of wisdom on which would be the better way to go? FYI it's a S&W K frame in .38/357. overall cost would be less for speed loaders than the moon clips and machine work. i'm not much of a revolver shooter (or anything else) but i have fun so a tenth of a second or whatever on a reload isn't going to be a big deal to me. thanks in advance for any help

I hate to admit it, but there is a guy here in our club who can reload his Model 19 using comp IIIs just as fast as most of our N frame moonclip shooters!

Charlie

Charlie, Most of the shooters say that the moonclip is the way to go because the shooters they see do not load with the speedloaders well. I have been lucky to see a lot of Comp III users who could speed load with the good ones. Mike Henry, Fast Eddie Masukura, Gene Marshall, Phil Joyse Stevie Rosato, to name a few and Karen Marxhall was good also. So I am sorta biased when they tout the moonclip over the Speedloaders. Nothing can beat the 45 moonclips as they are the easiest to learn on, but a good Comp III in the right hands can hang with them. Also the longer cases, such as the 38 specials are a little more unwieldly when moonclipped and become Brass sensitive. Good to hear the Speedloaders ain't dead just yet.!! later rdd

[Carmoney]

Yes, in competent hands a revolver can load pretty fast with speedloaders. And Bubber is the best at it I've seen.

HOWEVER--let's be realistic here, people: Other things being equal, a moonclip reload is always going to be faster because it requires less movement and less fine alignment. If you hit a Comp III reload absolutely perfectly (and you won't much of the time), it's going to be very close to the same speed as a good moonclip reload.....but not quite. And when a speedloader reload goes bad, with loose rounds and brass flying around it can turn into a total trainwreck real quick.

Reloading a .45 ACP revolver with moonclips offers the fastest possible reload with a revolver--this is why the 625 is the overwhelming choice among the top USPSA shooters. There may be other things you like about shooting a K- or L-frame .38/.357 that justify using one of those options instead, just recognize you are handicapping yourself at the get-go.

[Cherryriver]

I'm going to agree with Mike across the board there, with one added note-

When speedball sixgun reloads go wrong, most of the time it's one or more of the extraction/ejection events, it seems to me.

To me, the biggest single advantage of the moonclip reload is the extraction, not the filling. Moonclipped empties virtually always depart the cylinder properly; such is not the case with loose rounds, even if you practice until your hands go numb.

I practice speedloader reloads because with the exception of my Webley Mk VI, those are the guns I have that I can hit the best with.

For example, just yesterday I did a six-stage, 66-round IDPA match with my Detective Special. One reload suffered from having a single .38 Special case try to tuck itself in for a nap before I poked it out with a second smack and shake. Not the end of the world, but who needs an extra two and half seconds on a 12-round stage?

Same again today, but a bit less trouble: a full-blown USPSA match, and I tried my new-to-me six-inch 686 with major-level .357 loads and Comp IIIs. Sure enough, one refill was slowed down while I had to shake out another recalcitrant empty.

Meanwhile, when I made "B" class in revo, it was with the moonied Webley. I guess that's my final take on it.

Bill

[SharonAnne9x23]

I will toss in my $0.02. I suggest moon clips for one simple reason. You will get your brass back. I used speedloaders and seldom got more than half my brass back. If it wasn't packed in units of 6 no one would pick it up.

[hearthco]

I always reccomend moonclips!!!!