Topmaul Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 I went with a barrel mount optic the picture shows a faily low quality NcStar I now have a much better optic on the gun. I figure if I have to shoot in the open division I might as well take full advantage of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SinistralRifleman Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 The mixxed load stages really aren't complicated, you just have to change your brain function to think about shooting with a mag fed gun vs a tube fed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topmaul Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 I agree with Sinistralrifleman use tens for bird shot and 8s for slugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastshooter03 Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 Doesn't the U.S. Military have a full-auto mag fed shotgun? Why can't we get a semi-auto version. Anyone know the company or if it's still made? Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el pres Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 In Matt Burkett's last radio show with Taran, Taran talks about getting a Tromix Saiga to play with like Dean Makkos has. Benny posted they were the "berries". I don't know exactly what that means but I guessed it was good. It was actaully seeing Wakal's and SinstralRifleman's posts that peaked my interest in them. It is just a fun gun, which is what gets me out on the range. Try one out, there is no denying a potential to win with it, like any other gun you put your practice time into. Yep...Taran was talking with Matt about them...relating how fired up Horner was to get one after shooting Makkos' gun...if i recall correctly. At the 22:15 minute mark, Taran says he is thinking of trying it out next year... http://www.mattburkett.com/podcast/radio_show_v2_21.mp3 Ya but look what happened, Taran beat all the 20rnd Saigas "and" Tecloaders with a tactical Benelli. . awsome! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SinistralRifleman Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 Doesn't the U.S. Military have a full-auto mag fed shotgun? Why can't we get a semi-auto version. Anyone know the company or if it's still made?Nick The AA-12 is less than ideal for our purposes. It's about twice the weight of the Saiga, has some less than ergonimic features like a channel the mags have to go into rather than a well, and the sights are much higher off the bore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastshooter03 Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 I see. Maybe somebody can design a shotgun with an AR type platform/ergonomics and maybe made in the USA too! Come on Magpul let's see it done! I'm not sure if any of the AK shotguns are made here, but I doubt it. My 11-87 with have to do until it happens! I guess I'll just have to face the fact I'll be kicked further down the rankings by AK shooters at every match I go to. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GentlemanJim Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 A number of folks including my self...are experimenting with AR10s converted to 20ga. However for 12ga to work with the platform...a new upper is required ...at least in my design. I dont think a marketable firearm is too far in the future. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topmaul Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 I believe the AA-12 fires from the open bolt good luck make that legal for civilian use Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KentG Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 I would put all my shotgun shells in one basket to say that ......IF ....and thats a big if. Saiga was being used by all the top dogs. BENELLI would just put a drop magazine under their gun and we all know Saiga would have NO CHANCE after that. So just like all the GM guys have said for the past 5 years, Saiga is just a fad. Plus, I would have to agree with what you said, it takes marginal skill to operate the AK-47, which in turn takes away the precision, skill, and art form of loading a real semi-automatic or pump shotgun. That is why in 3-gun there are 3 different skills: handgun, rifle (which is 90% of the time in AR, which is the real Saiga in the first place), and a shotgun (which takes the most skill to load). And like I said before, that's why there are 3 skills. Im not sure but I think I disagree with you here. What is the handgun skill in 3 gun where guys with open guns rarely have to reload on a stage. Yet the shotguners do? Or AR with BetaMags??? I have a couple of MD drums on order and I really like my Siaga as far as ease of use comapared to any remi, benelli or winchester I have shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KentG Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 I have had a couple Saigas for less than a year and had a good guy on the Saiga forums convert one of them for me. They are neater than shit. And fast. What the white elephant in the room is that no one wants to talk about is money. Kind of like car racing,,, money talks and the USPSA and the big names from the factory and the superstar gunsmiths who make the benelli and remi guns over for big bucks have thier ass's puckerd up tighter than a prom queens thing. Not to mention the rule bitching now that MD Arms is in process of shipping 20 round drums for the Saigas. I have 2 on order and cant wait,, but the powers that be dont really give a shit about the sport I think. The are like politicans. Its about taking care of the income stream for the custom builders, aftermarket guys and factory toads. Sure the anti's will design stages to handicap Siagas vs tubers BUT at every match the tactical and other classes will see it and like all truthes it will smell. Why the hell cant an American company compete?? When remi makes a gun thats on par with the saiga I will jump ship. This sport is built on club levels not the nats, most guys dont want to see a match that goes out of its way to handicap one gun, most matches that my limited experiance has seen is keep it simple. If you include lots of slug drills you just make lots of DQ's and fewer shooters. Most of the bitchers have a vested intrest in keeping Saigas out. I just like to shoot. Those like us will win in the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 Tnek, I think you are being a bit unfair! I only know of about 5 "builders" that do shotguns, and as for the Factory "toads" I haven't seen ANY of them do much for the 3-gun sports ( Remington is a slight exception ). The thing that has kept the Saiga from common use is the ruling that it is a OPEN firearm only, and most folks just DON'T shoot open! I, like Russel, have always thought that they should be allowed into "tactical". The sad fact is that open get about as many shooters as limited at most 3-gun matches, and untill the demand grows you just won't see that many "super gunsmiths" take the time to work on them, but if the demand grows they will be some of the first to do some real cool stuff to them! I am hoping that Trapr and I will be forging the way to the futur by allowing the Saigas into "Tactical and Limited" at the High Plains Shotgun Challenge. There is no reason why they shouldn't be allowed. KurtM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SinistralRifleman Posted February 24, 2008 Share Posted February 24, 2008 As I don't see them being allowed in Tactical any time soon, it just gives me more fuel for my goal to incorporate Trooper Class into as many matches as possible. Trooper Class, because life isn't fair! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topmaul Posted February 24, 2008 Share Posted February 24, 2008 Cormrads what is wrong with the AK platform folks here want a shotgun built on the AR platform a platform that we all know is well a bit finicky. Some one said the Saiga is a fad, not it is an advancement. Maybe that person if he lived in an earlier age would have said the same about electric lights. I think this sport should embrace advancement. We Saiga fans tend to get a bit defensive when traditionalists dismiss the Saiga. It does not bother me anymore "see ya at the match" is my attitude Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el pres Posted February 24, 2008 Share Posted February 24, 2008 Ok so which one is the hot set-up?? I really like the one in the pic but I asume that alot of the stuff on this gun is prototype. Tromix has alot of variations on its site ?? I saw a really nice one at the Superstition last year with Sinistral (cavarms) but I think that was an expieriment right ?? I hate reloading an AK and getting the mag stuck in there so who's got the killer magwell?? It looks like alot of things are in the works right now, should I hang on a little bit?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topmaul Posted February 24, 2008 Share Posted February 24, 2008 http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=19436 You mean like this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted February 24, 2008 Share Posted February 24, 2008 Stupid question, but how do you design a stage to favor/disfavor one gun over the other? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GentlemanJim Posted February 24, 2008 Share Posted February 24, 2008 Just make a giant hoser stage..(lots of rounds)...and it would favor a mag loaded gun. Or a high hit factor stage of 10 or less clays...or do a combo of slugs and shot. Course design can have an impact on how the equipment works out. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el pres Posted February 24, 2008 Share Posted February 24, 2008 http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=19436You mean like this? I mean like that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KentG Posted February 24, 2008 Share Posted February 24, 2008 Tnek, I think you are being a bit unfair! I only know of about 5 "builders" that do shotguns, and as for the Factory "toads" I haven't seen ANY of them do much for the 3-gun sports ( Remington is a slight exception ). The thing that has kept the Saiga from common use is the ruling that it is a OPEN firearm only, and most folks just DON'T shoot open! I, like Russel, have always thought that they should be allowed into "tactical". The sad fact is that open get about as many shooters as limited at most 3-gun matches, and untill the demand grows you just won't see that many "super gunsmiths" take the time to work on them, but if the demand grows they will be some of the first to do some real cool stuff to them! I am hoping that Trapr and I will be forging the way to the futur by allowing the Saigas into "Tactical and Limited" at the High Plains Shotgun Challenge. There is no reason why they shouldn't be allowed. KurtM Dont mean to be unfair. I just have my opinion. Open means open in my book but I cant use the new drums cause there are rules in open that wont allow it. Yet. Siagas are cheap to buy and build and dont really need a big super smith to build one. But like we all know when the USPSA and its feeder guys can figure out how to make money on them then all will be well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Smith Posted February 24, 2008 Share Posted February 24, 2008 Open means open in my book but I cant use the new drums cause there are rules in open that wont allow it. Yet. I assume this is just a USPSA rule ? im sure the drum mags are legal in Open Division for IPSC shotgun ! N Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted February 24, 2008 Share Posted February 24, 2008 Yes Neil, it is just a USPSA thing. Open just isn,t open over here! I believe it is a 10+ 1 limit. Most any IPSC open gun wouldn't be Division Legal in USPSA...who said we were freer than you KURTM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Smith Posted February 24, 2008 Share Posted February 24, 2008 Yes Neil, it is just a USPSA thing. Open just isn,t open over here! I believe it is a 10+ 1 limit. Most any IPSC open gun wouldn't be Division Legal in USPSA...who said we were freer than you KURTM Thats to bad amigo, I hope that gets changed before the 2010 match, im sure the drum mags will be in abundance in Germany this July. By the way I have booked the Hotel in Philippsburg for everyone including you guys, im looking forward to the European tour this summer N Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastshooter03 Posted February 24, 2008 Share Posted February 24, 2008 The only reason I would want AR ergonomics is because I use an AR for RIfle. If I was using an AK for rifle(or liked AKs at all) I would be using the AK shotgun for familiarity reasons. Using a normal shotgun there is no confusion going back an forth except for the anticipation of recoil when going back to the AR(for me anyways). I know most of you don't have this problem going from AR to AK and back again but I for sure would not be so lucky. I take the little yellow bus to matches . Oh Yeah, USPSA Open Rules SUCK Donkey you know what! Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topmaul Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 (edited) I guess the thing to do is to check the local ground rules before leaving the house oops, before sending the money, one thing I do is contact the Match Director and ask questions so that I don't get suprised the day of the match. For example some matches are fine with the S-12 and 10 rd mags but not optics, silly stuff like that. Edited February 25, 2008 by Topmaul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now