Single Stack

[mike cyrwus]

I did a search, to no avail.

I know the provisional rules state that the frame cannot have a full dust cover, but must it then be m1911 usgi spec dust cover length?

Im building up a s.s. for s.s. division, and I think Id like to cut the dust cover to line up with the ball cuts on my particular slide. it will be a cut made on a slight angle. Its a little less than halfway between a short and full dust cover.

Im particularly wondring if the powers that be at the s.s. classic will give me a hard time.

[mjbine]

APPENDIX D 6

Special conditions:

16. Only 1911 production type pistols. Must be available to the general public and have their

basis in the original 1911 service pistol as designed by John M. Browning. Pistols made

from components that duplicate the factory originals are acceptable. Factory upgrade’s

such as external extractors, firing pin blocks and other factory installed safety features are

permitted. Pistols with factory installed light rail attachments may be used if the dustcover

is no longer than 3.25 inches when measured from the rear of the slide stop pin to the front

of the dustcover

[mike cyrwus]

I saw that; I dont have a rail on my dust cover.

[JakeMartens]

the way I read it is the dust cover cannot be longer than 3.25 inches, whether or not you have a light rail.

[mjbine]

the way I read it is the dust cover cannot be longer than 3.25 inches, whether or not you have a light rail.

That was may thought also.

[mike cyrwus]

its a good guide if anything; thanks for your thoughts!

[10mmdave]

the way I read it is the dust cover cannot be longer than 3.25 inches, whether or not you have a light rail.

How do you interpret that ??

Not trying to start a pissing contest but it says "factory installed light rail attachments may be used if the

dustcover is no longer than 3.25 inches",

not "dust cover cannot be longer than 3.25 inches"

I guess the weight diff would be small, and then the gun has to make weight anyway

(or not overweight that is)

[sfinney]

I have to agree with 10mmdave ...... it says "Only 1911 production type pistols." and "Pistols made

from components that duplicate the factory originals are acceptable. " This to me indicates original 1911 pattern frames, slide etc - no extended dust cover, no full profile slides, etc.

Then it says: "Pistols with factory installed light rail attachments may be used if the dustcover

is no longer than 3.25 inches...." This to me says a pistol may have a manufatcurer milled/installed light rail, and sets a max length for one, if equiped.

No where in that paragraph do I read anything about having an extended dustcover, with out it being for the purpose of a light rail.....

Better get a ruling before you build it.

Edited November 1, 2007 by sfinney

[JakeMartens]

the way I read it is the dust cover cannot be longer than 3.25 inches, whether or not you have a light rail.

How do you interpret that ??

Not trying to start a pissing contest but it says "factory installed light rail attachments may be used if the

dustcover is no longer than 3.25 inches",

not "dust cover cannot be longer than 3.25 inches"

I guess the weight diff would be small, and then the gun has to make weight anyway

(or not overweight that is)

Simple I guess, you can have a factory installed light rail on a dustcover that is no longer than 3.25 inches. So it would seem to me that if you can have a dustcover with a light rail 3.25 inches, you can have a dust cover without a light rail of the same length.

If I am not mistaken the measurement that Gary used came from the Kimber Warrior.

Why not just send Gary an email and ask him, or just wait a little I am sure he will be by to answer this.

[sfinney]

But the purpose of the revised language about max length of light rails on dust covers was to INCLUDE LIGHT RAIL EQUIPPED GUNS in Singlestack, as opposed to the original rules that excluded them. Lots of people had Sig 1911s, etc, with light rails, etc that were upset they couldn't come play in the new division.

I don't believe the language about light rails was added to allow extended dustcovers, in general, IMHO. Of course, I could be wrong. Ask Gary.

Edited November 1, 2007 by sfinney

[10mmdave]

Sorry guys, I'm still not up on all this USPSA stuff, who's "Gary"

Is he a rules guy ?? ('cause I have a question of my own is why)

[JakeMartens]

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showuser=738

He is the guy that gave us single stack

[Gary Stevens]

Did I hear somebody ring?

I am not the DNROI, but I do talk to him occasionally

My feeling, for what that is worth, is I don't care if your dust cover is light rail equiped or not as long as it is not over length as specified in the rule (3.25 inches). Now the DNROI might disagree with that, so I would suggest you contact him. I didn't want the full length heavy dust cover because I didn't want it to be preceived that this was just another equipment race division. While we all know it is the archer and ususally not the arrow, perception can sometimes become reality.

The entire idea was to have a very short list of prohibited items and to allow the size of the box and the maximum weight handle all the rest.

Gary

[Chris Keen]

Gary is right on top of things, as usual. He delivers a wealth of knowledge to the "people" of this great sport. Wouldn't he make a great ......... ?

[Scott R]

It would appear that if you do not have a light rail (in order to fall under that lenght limit) then you would be limited to a frame that duplicates the original as designed by John M. Browning. See red text below.

APPENDIX D 6

Special conditions:

16. Only 1911 production type pistols. Must be available to the general public and have their

basis in the original 1911 service pistol as designed by John M. Browning. Pistols made

from components that duplicate the factory originals are acceptable. Factory upgrade’s

such as external extractors, firing pin blocks and other factory installed safety features are

permitted. Pistols with factory installed light rail attachments may be used if the dustcover

is no longer than 3.25 inches when measured from the rear of the slide stop pin to the front

of the dustcover

[Sherwyn]

It would appear that if you do not have a light rail (in order to fall under that lenght limit) then you would be limited to a frame that duplicates the original as designed by John M. Browning. See red text below.

APPENDIX D 6

Special conditions:

16. Only 1911 production type pistols. Must be available to the general public and have their

basis in the original 1911 service pistol as designed by John M. Browning. Pistols made

from components that duplicate the factory originals are acceptable. Factory upgrade's

such as external extractors, firing pin blocks and other factory installed safety features are

permitted. Pistols with factory installed light rail attachments may be used if the dustcover

is no longer than 3.25 inches when measured from the rear of the slide stop pin to the front

of the dustcover

STI Rangemaster - factory full length dust cover.

Believe in one of the earlier rule versions, it included a statement that full length dust covers were not allowed - but the line has been removed? Removal of the statement would seem to indicate that it is now legal...so?

Sherwyn

[mjbine]

Gary,

Thanks for your post.

Mike

[HoMiE]

It would appear that if you do not have a light rail (in order to fall under that lenght limit) then you would be limited to a frame that duplicates the original as designed by John M. Browning. See red text below.

APPENDIX D 6

Special conditions:

16. Only 1911 production type pistols. Must be available to the general public and have their

basis in the original 1911 service pistol as designed by John M. Browning. Pistols made

from components that duplicate the factory originals are acceptable. Factory upgrade's

such as external extractors, firing pin blocks and other factory installed safety features are

permitted. Pistols with factory installed light rail attachments may be used if the dustcover

is no longer than 3.25 inches when measured from the rear of the slide stop pin to the front

of the dustcover

STI Rangemaster - factory full length dust cover.

Believe in one of the earlier rule versions, it included a statement that full length dust covers were not allowed - but the line has been removed? Removal of the statement would seem to indicate that it is now legal...so?

Sherwyn

I don't think that the full lenght dust cover will make the weight requirement, so although not explicity stated, it would not be legal in SS division.

[mike cyrwus]

Good discussion; because its a rangemaster frame that Im building on.

[Sherwyn]

I don't think that the full lenght dust cover will make the weight requirement, so although not explicity stated, it would not be legal in SS division.

43 oz max -- STI website lists Rangemaster at 41.2 oz

[steel1212]

I don't think that the full lenght dust cover will make the weight requirement, so although not explicity stated, it would not be legal in SS division.

43 oz max -- STI website lists Rangemaster at 41.2 oz

I didn't believe you as I thought there is no way a full lenght, steel framed gun could weigh that little....but they say it does...how much with a mag I wonder....

[YukonGlocker]

tag

[sfinney]

It would be much easier to rule on/enforce if they just come out and said dust covers can't be longer than 3.25", with or w/o a light rail. Just saying "full length dust cover are not legal" sets it up for someone to cut their full length dust cover back 1/8" and say its legal. And keeping it as "factory installed light rail attachments" keeps another guy from bolting a hunk of metal to his gun that takes him right up to 3.25" and 43 oz., just for the weight.

[HoMiE]

It would be much easier to rule on/enforce if they just come out and said dust covers can't be longer than 3.25", with or w/o a light rail. Just saying "full length dust cover are not legal" sets it up for someone to cut their full length dust cover back 1/8" and say its legal. And keeping it as "factory installed light rail attachments" keeps another guy from bolting a hunk of metal to his gun that takes him right up to 3.25" and 43 oz., just for the weight.

Appendix D5

#22 Prohibited modifications and features would not make it illegal for someone bolting a hunk of metal just for weight.

#23 Permitted features - Factory installed light rail attachments if the dust cover is no longer than 3.25 inches measured from the rear of the slide stop pin to the front of the dust cover.

Sounds like full lenght dust cover will not be allowed.

[jasmap]

It would be much easier to rule on/enforce if they just come out and said dust covers can't be longer than 3.25", with or w/o a light rail. Just saying "full length dust cover are not legal" sets it up for someone to cut their full length dust cover back 1/8" and say its legal. And keeping it as "factory installed light rail attachments" keeps another guy from bolting a hunk of metal to his gun that takes him right up to 3.25" and 43 oz., just for the weight.

Appendix D5

#22 Prohibited modifications and features would not make it illegal for someone bolting a hunk of metal just for weight.

#23 Permitted features - Factory installed light rail attachments if the dust cover is no longer than 3.25 inches measured from the rear of the slide stop pin to the front of the dust cover.

Sounds like full lenght dust cover will not be allowed.

I'm sure you're right but the wording does say the light rail is disallowed IF the dust cover is 3.25 inches or shorter. This ONLY relates the dust cover to the light rail and does not pertain to the dust cover w/out a light rail. In this section it does not specifically say the dust cover cannot be full length.