Scooter Posted May 19, 2001 Share Posted May 19, 2001 No matter how hard I try or the gun I use, I can't pull the trigger faster than 0.20 sec. How do people get splits into the 0.1's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38supPat Posted May 19, 2001 Share Posted May 19, 2001 The first sentence answers your question. You can't 'try hard' this will keep you from shooting at max speed. You gotta relax. Read through the forums one thread has this topic covered but basically you want to let the gun shoot fast not make it. Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted May 20, 2001 Share Posted May 20, 2001 Scooter: I have a post about trigger freeze, and that's what happens when I TRY. When I use just enough grip to get the job done, my splits run .16 without even thinking about it. When I TRY to go faster, I get incredible splits right up until the trigger doesn't reset and then I am done for. BTW, I am using a 2011 with a 1.75 lb. trigger with almost no take up. When you stop to think about it, is there any reason to shoot splits faster than .20 other than bragging rights and it looks cool? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38supPat Posted May 20, 2001 Share Posted May 20, 2001 If I'm on and relaxed, I'll pull .12 - .13 splits at warp speed, really in a match I'll likely not pull less than .17 - .18. Thats with a 1lb trigger with lots of overtravel and some takeup. Scooter, what gun are you using and whats the pull length and weight? Pat (Edited by Pat Harrison at 7:26 pm on May 19, 2001) (Edited by Pat Harrison at 7:27 pm on May 19, 2001) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Dunlop Posted May 20, 2001 Share Posted May 20, 2001 The stage would have to factor at 20 points/sec to break even if your .05sec saving on splits resulted in a C. Does'nt make sense to me to risk a point or worse for a marginal saving in time P.D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38supPat Posted May 20, 2001 Share Posted May 20, 2001 You got it right, always go for A's. Take what time you need to. However you should work on speed in practice. If you can do .20 splits as your absolute fastest in prac. you shouldn't shoot that speed in a match. If you can shoot .16 in prac. you can comfortably shoot .20's and get your A's Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooter Posted May 20, 2001 Share Posted May 20, 2001 I was just curious as how anyone can move their finger that fast. I can shoot .20 splits with two of my guns, a Browning Buckmark for steel and a HK P7M8 for IDPA/steel. The Buckmark has a 2 lbs trigger with about 1.5 mm of travel. The P7 has a longer throw, never measured the weight. Even using a stopwatch, I can only move my finger fast enough to get a .15 split. It just amazes me how someone can get a .12 split. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38supPat Posted May 20, 2001 Share Posted May 20, 2001 Keep working with the stopwatch, play with different tensions and finger placement on the button (tip or pad) I've done this before for fun and its amazing what you can learn. Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted May 21, 2001 Share Posted May 21, 2001 I can't pull the trigger faster than 0.20 sec So don't. That's all you need to win a club match or win your class at a big match. Your index (target to target) times are far more important. Quick, which is the faster shooter on four targets? Johnny Doubletap: 1.3-.15-.50-.16-.48-.14-.44-.15 Harold Hoser: 1.3-.25-.26-.22-.28-.25-.27-.22 The shooter with the better index times is about .3 faster on that array. Now imagine four of those arrays in a stage where he gets a time 1.2 faster than the double tapper. Now imagine four or more of those stages in a match. There are a thousand other things you should do to be faster. When you've done the thousandth, you'll find your splits have improved all on their own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooter Posted May 21, 2001 Share Posted May 21, 2001 I know it serves little or no practical purpose. It just one of those things you do when you are bored at the range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38supPat Posted May 21, 2001 Share Posted May 21, 2001 It does serve a purpose...if you learn from it. Pay attention to your bodu and what it is showing you. Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigDave Posted May 21, 2001 Share Posted May 21, 2001 in regards to the stopwatch thing, I used to play a game with my friends during high school track meets where we see how quick of splits we could get with our finger. Common times were under .10, some under .05. IT IS POSSIBLE. I have seen it with my own eyes. I think speed is not somthing that can be attained simply by working soley on one aspect (the trigger finger). Spriters don't simply run 100m or 200m dashes all day long. They do distance work, weight training, resistance traning, plyometrics, etc. I believe the shooting sports translate this way as well. Just my $.02 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert W Posted May 24, 2001 Share Posted May 24, 2001 I recently had a class with J. Barnhart who religiously prints out everyone's stage times. I found it very interesting the Jerry's fastest split was a .19 on one target which was a relatively close upper panel shot. The key was that he only dropped about 2% of the available stage points. I can easily make .13 splits on targets 5 yds. and in, but I can't call the shots at that speed with a Limited gun. Therefore I only shoot as fast as the sights will let me. Generally when I "let" the gun do the work my splits come down and my accuracy goes up. This is my first post, so be gentle...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted May 24, 2001 Share Posted May 24, 2001 Robert: In Jerry's Burner Series tapes he makes mention that his par time on splits is .18 seconds and in his live fire tape the timer bears that out. I think this thread in part is just discussing the concept of splits in general, for fun. I do think most folks put too much emphasis on splits, but still one must be able to shoot a controlled pair quickly and it's fun to boot. I have been fighting trigger freeze lately and it's from too much tension while trying to go too darn fast. I have been working on relaxing a bit and when I do close yardage Bill Drills I get several splits of .11 and a few faster than that. I am not sure that really serves any useful purpose other than I have noticed that I can now shoot .18-.20 splits very comfortably in matches while calling the shots and I know that is important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigDave Posted May 24, 2001 Share Posted May 24, 2001 In reading all these posts, does "finger speed" (if there is such a thing) have anything to do with trigger weight? It seems only logical that someone like Rob L. or Brian E. can consistantly have shot intervals below .20 seconds with 1.0 lb triggers. But, is the same possible for those of us with "stock guns" with 4.5-6.5 lb trigger pulls? Isn't this kinda like wondering why a top fuel drag car beats out pro-stock (apologies for the NHRA anaology) In summary, doesn't equipment have alot to do with fast shot intervals, especially once you get down below, say .25 to .30 secs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benos Posted May 24, 2001 Share Posted May 24, 2001 A nice trigger and a sweet shooting gun can help; but of course we have to cite Jerry Miculek, who can shoot a da revolver WAY under .18 sec splits.... be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulW Posted May 24, 2001 Share Posted May 24, 2001 .18 splits with a DA revolver......thats scary fast! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38supPat Posted May 24, 2001 Share Posted May 24, 2001 Just out of curiosity what does Jerry M. run for shot to shot splits say on a bill drill? I know I can get down to .18 - .17 but theres no way I'm in his class. I know with a super I've seen him run strings of .13 splits. Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benos Posted May 24, 2001 Share Posted May 24, 2001 I can't say for sure, but I'd bet he's close to the .13 zone. be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38supPat Posted May 24, 2001 Share Posted May 24, 2001 Whoa! (awe!) Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooter Posted May 24, 2001 Share Posted May 24, 2001 When Jerry set the world record of 8 shots in .99 sec, that's averaging 0.12375 sec splits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38supPat Posted May 24, 2001 Share Posted May 24, 2001 I remember commenting on the old forum that when shooters refer to splits, it almost always is in regards to two shots on target. But 'splits' really is the time between all shots regardless of what is happening. Movement, target to target, reloads, all are 'splits' and equally if not more important than two shots on a target. Wanna make a stage to mess with Johnny Doubletap? Set up a regular field course, with a twist. Have full targets, 1/2 partials, and 'B' zones. Stage description is Comstock freestyle, all full targets take 3 rounds to score, all partials take 2 rounds to score and all 'B' zone require 1 round to score. Mix up the targets so each bank includes 2 to 3 of these types of targets and watch what happens. Another cool field course the N.Y. club I shoot at uses is. 4 positions, 4 banks of targets. Position 1. 6 targets each needs one round to score. Position 2. 3 targets two rounds each Position 3. 2 targets three rounds each and Position 4. 1 target six rounds to score. Bit of a memory game but if all you're worried about is a two shot split, you'll suck at this type of stage. But its all fun Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted May 25, 2001 Share Posted May 25, 2001 Heck, that's nothing. I once had splits in the .06 range...ever have a pistol go full auto? It's a blast... You guys really have me wondering about something. I have shot several Bill Drills that don't count because I missed several of the shots, you know, just shooting in the direction of the target. I know that's bad form, but I was just trying to see how fast I couyld really go. In all honesty, I have shot a lot of .11 to .12 splits. Is this unusual? (Edited by Ron Ankeny at 6:49 pm on May 24, 2001) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38supPat Posted May 25, 2001 Share Posted May 25, 2001 Nope. I can hit them occasionally, I even got down to a .07 on a bill drill (it counted). I know of one shooter up here who, with a limited gun can shoot .10 splits all day (on pairs only, not bill drills). I can't, on average, hit that speed. My best run .13 - .15 Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt VDW Posted May 25, 2001 Share Posted May 25, 2001 What's the relative importance of recoil recovery and trigger control in determining how fast you can shoot (multiple shots on a single target)? Consider two extremes: A) You grip the pistol as you normally would but replace your pistol's trigger mechanism with an electronic device that fires the pistol the instant it's aligned with the target. You use your normal grip and trigger but the pistol is welded onto a steel beam so it's permanently aligned with the target. In which case would your split times be faster? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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