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The reload


Ron Ankeny

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I guess we all know how important it is to be able to perform a quick, fumble free reload. I am really curious about how quickly you guys swap out mags in a wide body and in your single stacks.

Here's the drill. Set your target out at 10 yards. Fire a pair into the A zone, reload, then fire another round into the A zone. Hits out side of the A-zone don't count. What was the split between shots for the reload?

With my wide body (the pistol that is) I have a par time right around 1.4 seconds (I can do it faster but I get real sloppy). With my single stack I come in right around 1.8 seconds. I am asking this question because I frankly think people way over state how fast good shooters reload. I find it hard to believe that a guy (or gal) would be losing matches  because of 1.5 second reloads.

What do you think? Tell me what a realistic time would be and post your times. Thanks.

(Edited by Ron Ankeny at 3:08 pm on Aug. 27, 2001)

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I did a reload from slide-lock (opps) in a match the other day.  I had one full-size popper left at about 15 yards.  I checked the timer to see what running dry cost me.  I think it was about 2.4 seconds.  I felt that I reloaded about as fast as possible under that situation.  I am a high C...low B shooter.  The gun was a double stack, Glock 35, no funnel.

I'll try your drill and see what I come up with.

We know Pat & Todd J.'s times are at the GM level.  Ron, can you edit your post and put your class in there.  

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Quote: from Pat Harrison on 6:35 pm on Aug. 27, 2001

In a match...1.10 - 1.20 speed I can count on...in practice, actually at a demo I did recently .85 - .90

I know Todd J. is capable of .70 - .80

Pat


I saw him do a mag change at the area 6 in 2000 on an El Pres and I swear he was shooting before his mag hit the ground.

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Singlestack,

You don't have to swear he was shooting before it hit the ground BECAUSE HE WAS shooting before it hit the ground. He performed drills in front of me when I took his class that almost made me shit myself. He routinely would be firing another shot before the ejected mag was on the ground.

Pat,

Your right about the mag change times. As of 98' when I took Todd's class, he said the fastest mag change he had done to date during live fire was .68.  He also said he had perfomed a drill of hands at sides starting position. Draw, fire 1 shot, mag change, fire 1 shot. Todd did it in 1.34 seconds!!

Ron,

I think my mag changes run around 1.10-1.20 in matches and in practice when I'm shooting WFO (Wide f*#king Open) I can get to .9- 1.0 second.

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Anything under 1.5 is pretty good...yes I can reload a single stack as fast dependant on a couple of things, does it have a good magwell? and how much have I been practicing :)...seriously the only difference I find between double and single stack reloads is consistancy...I will hit my reloads with my STI everytime, but with my Springfield I will blow a few, granted it does not have a very good magwell on it right now. The singlestacks are just a bit less forgiving...I wish I could dig up the article from either Dillons Blue Press' or 'American Handgunner' where they had Rob L. and Argnt M-M shooting El-Prezs with everything from a box stock springfield 1911 .45 to their full house race P-9s, there was not a lot of difference. And I know hen I talked to Rob at Area 1 he said he had just done his fastest El prez ever with his 6" .45!

Pat

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My reloads run about 1.5, which I think is pretty poor for my M classification. Practicing on closer targets, I've got it down to 1.24. I have to shift the gun in my hand to hit the button, then shift it back*, but a lot of my time is spent setting up the shot after making the reload.

* I overheard an M class Open shooter state, "That's why I'll never make GM, I can't do a sub-second reload because my small hands make me shift my grip."

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Best to date is a 1.15 with my Para. However, my consistent times were around 1.5 with that gun. With my STI I'm consitently around 1.25, but the magwell I've got on it(Krebs) sucks. Not sure if I want to go with an EGW or a stainless STI. On another note, what's your best IDPA tac-load? I can't get mine under 2.5 .  

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Bill...don't quote me on this BE would be a better person to ask but I believe he said it was in the 3.60 range.....

Pat

(Edited by Pat Harrison at 3:25 pm on Aug. 28, 2001)

(Edited by Pat Harrison at 3:27 pm on Aug. 28, 2001)

(Edited by Pat Harrison at 6:45 pm on Oct. 4, 2001)

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Ron,

I just did a variation on your drill, I didn't have a second mag with me and the range was too wet to drop them on, so I did gun empty draw and load on an A zone plate at 12 yds.

The object of the excersise was to establish whether the open/USPSA mag position(in front) was better than the IPSC behind the hip.

For the record the fastest went to the USPSA possie, at 1.99sec, but most were at 2.1 with both mag positions.

There is a standard excersise at the Limited nats requiring a reload, and for that the up front mag would be best, but concidering how the thing gets in the way during any other shooting, I'm not sure that its an overall advantage.

Sorry to drift the thread but I'd appreciate your oppinions

P.D.

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This may sound a little crazy but I have been practicing mag changes with my eyes closed.

This helps me find my body's natural position so when I do it with my eyes open is seems faster.

Yesterday my daughter timed me doing dry-reloads and my average time was 1.2 seconds (gun on target, reload, gun back on target, shooting with one of those Lenny Magill laser target things).

I also did a few 1 second draws.(not many yet).

In actual live fire my times are .2-.4 seconds slower, probably because the mags have live rounds which make them heavier, or perhaps it is a mental block because I have a "hot" gun...

I am using an HK USP with no mag-well, all the great advice on this board has REALLY helped this new shooter,

Thanks to all.....

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bird, I'm going to start practicing my reloads with eyes closed too!  Never done it before, but I don't think it sounds crazy at all.   I've got a little glitch that I'm trying to work through, this may be the medicine.  Thanks!

                                      -Sam

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Bonedaddy:

Would that little glicth be when you miss the mag well and throw the freaking thing half way across the back forty?

I am doing just the opposite of you guys to improve...I am forcing myself to look at the seam where the magwell meets the frame and my times are coming way down. I managed three reloads in the 1.2 second range yesterday while shooting classifiers.

(Edited by Ron Ankeny at 8:21 pm on Sep. 9, 2001)

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Ron,

I did a variation of what you are doing. I put a small dot of red fingernail polish (yes, I am married) on the right side of the frame (left side if you are a lefty) on the inside where I had to have the gun in the position I wanted it for a reload to see the dot. Helped a bunch and when the fingernail polish had rubbed off I found myself holding the gun like I wanted when inserting a mag. The only bad thing is I was also looking for the dot (after it had rubbed off) but it helped me to train my eyes to go there. I might put it back but I'm not sure if it is distracting or not and I don't think I need it anymore.

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Phil:

Good question and I have an answer. I can't do a reload subconsiously so I look at the magwell. Now a question for you subconcious reloaders. Boy that doesn't sound right, lol. If a guy or gal can do a reload (shot to shot) with A zone hits (at reasonable distance) in 1.2 seconds by looking at the magwell, why would a guy/gal want to risk fumbling a reload by looking at the target face instead of the pistol?

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why would a guy/gal want to risk fumbling a reload by looking at the target face instead of the pistol?

Let me ask you a few questions in return :-)

When you draw do you look at the gun or the target?  Most of us look at the target cause that's where we want the gun to go... right?

So why wouldn't you do the same thing on the reload?  I may be wrong here (I'm picturing Robbie's picture on the recent front sight)!

Also, I frequently get coached that the gun needs to be closer to my body when I reload, so that the final movements are the same as the draw.

Geez, I hope that all made sense!

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I'm solidly in the "looking at the magwell" camp.   I'm just thinking I might learn something if I practice with my eyes closed.  Hell, it couldn't hurt. ('cept I may have trouble finding where the fumbled ones landed)

     The most important thing I've learned

lately is to... pause....just as my mag reaches the well.  This is not a long pause, more akin to the time it takes to locate the front sight on a popper.  

     Singlestack, I really like the idea of the dot inside the mag well. I'm going to try that too.  

(hmmm... it's going to be a bitch finding some nail polish that doesn't clash with my blue Dillon bag.....red??......nah..... makes me look fat)  

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