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Falling Casing Setting Off Round On The Bench


Mathew

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  • 1 month later...
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For what it's worth, I was teaching a transition class at the Senator Pat Thomas Law Enforcement Academy in Florida when an ejected piece of .45 ACP brass hit an open tray of ammo on the ground and set one off. The brass didn't bounce off anything, it went straight up and down on the primer. The incident should be documented with the Tallahassee Police Department's training unit. .45 brass is pretty heavy and the new springs from a factory SIG probably could throw it fairly high. I know that one of the officers got a direct hit to the center of the forehead with a piece of ejected brass and it cut them deeply enough to bleed freely (of course head wounds are famous for that anyway!).

It is one in a million, though. I've been shooting for the better part of 15 years and I've only seen it once. I reallly didn't think any more about it until I saw this thread, and it surprised me that the phenomenon causes so much discussion! My thought is that the sharp case mouth would focus the force a little better than the rim, but I'm confident either could obtain detonation under the right circumstances.

Kevin

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  • 9 months later...
  • 1 month later...

I have seen 1 car tire flattened by exploding brass. Some idiot dumped out a 50 round box on the ground and left it there. The car rolled onto and set off one of the loose rounds. The shrapnel cut a small hole in the tire. However has anyone ever seen a round detonated by the Ejector of a pistol? I have always heard about this but never seen any proof. I am glad Carl Provan provided very convincing pictures of his incident.

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The photos of the falling case setting off a round happened last year. The following photos happened to me 7 years ago.

Thanksgiving Day, on the range doing some practice drills with a Para-Ord P16-40. Went to clear the last round form the chamber, it was stuck. I had my load length to long for the bullet and it was engaging in the rifling when it was chambered. I was having a hard time clearing the round. I grabbed the slide with my hand covering the ejection port. Bad move. Proceeded to hit the back of the grip with my right hand. Another bad move. This forced the slide to unlock and remove the round from the chamber. Note that my left hand was covering the ejection port. Yea you guessed it my hand forced the round back into the ejection port aligning the primer with the ejector. The bullet was jammed against the forward edge of the ejection port; this created enough force to set the primer off. I bet you can guess what went off after the primer.

The end result was 16 stitches in my left hand, off work for 2 months, and a very angry mother. Because I was the one responsible to deep-fry the turkey for dinner. I cannot do that while sitting in the emergency room at the local hospital.

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My point is, there's gotta be a threshold where there just simply isn't enough energy transmitted to light off the primer. A falling piece of empty brass doesn't transmit much energy.

Lots of things are impossible until they happen.

You are assuming that the case was simply falling. That's not necessarily the case as described. An ejected case, particularly a full power one ejected from a gun with a light spring, can be moving at a pretty good velocity. If it bounced off something hard, it might, and apparently did, retain sufficient velocity/inertia, to set a primer off.

Unlikely? I think so. Possible, well, either it is, or one of our number isn't being completely honest. I choose to accept the possibility.

Any way you look at it, I'm going to cover the ammo I have sitting on the bench in the future.

Lee

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I was reloading .223 one day on my 550 press. As I advanced the press turret a loaded round did not make it into the bin and fell straight forward towards me along side the operating handle of the press (the 550 is on a strong mount). It looks like there was a live primer on the reloading bench.

The .223 round hit the live primer dead on and set it off. Talk bout scary!

Lesson learned: KEPT THE RELOADING AREA CLEAN !

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  • 5 months later...

I did not witness this incident but I was on the range when it happened. Some federal agents were using our range for some inservice training. A 9mm round landed on a box of open ammo sitting on the hard surface just to the rear of the shooters. It apparently landed on a primer. The round went off and the styrofoam tray was damaged and rounds scattered. Brass fragments were imbeded in the styrofoam and we found the round in the grass at the edge of the hard surface. The round was the same as the others in the box of ammo 147gr JHP with no rifling marks.

They were convinced someone fired a round from another part of the range and it struck the box of ammo. The problem with that was everyone else had stopped firing and were leaving for lunch. The round lying near the destroyed box with spent shell casings all around and no rifling marks on the bullet finally convinced them of what hat taken place.

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There's another thread on the forum listing just such an incident. (I can't find it. I'm sure someone will.) The person who experienced it sent me the stuff, and I finally got around to inspecting and photographing it. I believe it. Besides the fact that I've never had occasion to suspect this person ever of pulling my leg, the physical evidence is too clear.

4ulf1ap.jpg

You can clearly see the primer has a rim-shaped crease in it. The impression is so perfect you can even line up the case and determine which way it was pointing. The impact case has two clear impressions of the edge of the primer pocket on its rim, and the detonated case has two faint marks from the rim at its primer pocket. It all lines up.

All I can say is, there are times I'm glad I not only wear prescription lenses, but that my Dad was an Engineer, and as a result my glasses have always met code.

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My guess would be as the bullet was facing down, resting against a surface while cradled in its box, when the primer went off the case blew up and away from the bullet, more so than the traditional scenario of the bullet leaving a stationary case? Primer must have been seated pretty well, in any case.

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My guess would be as the bullet was facing down, resting against a surface while cradled in its box, when the primer went off the case blew up and away from the bullet, more so than the traditional scenario of the bullet leaving a stationary case? Primer must have been seated pretty well, in any case.

The force of the case moving up against the force of the case hitting the primer keeps the primer in the pocket.

Just a guess.

Edited by theknightoflight
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Not factory ammo. As the shooter is an experience loader, and an A class Limited shooter, I'd guess he has found that to be an accurate load.

I'd also assume that the case lifted off the bullet on firing, and between that and the inertia of the case that struck it, the primer wouldn't have moved.

As an additional factor, the combustion pressure had to be quite low, since there was no containment once the bullet left the case.

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I have also experienced a empty brass casing setting off live ammo. The range I work at had an incident last year. A gentleman had his box of .22 ammo (with the lid off) sitting on the tray to the left of him at the firing line. A spent .45 casing from the lane immediately to his left landed on top of the .22 ammo, setting off a round, driving the bullet through the bottom of the case, into and through the tray underneath, to the floor. Really strange thing was that it did not spill the .22 ammo out of the case. The only indication that the box had been tampered with was the spent shell in the middle of the box and the hole out the bottom of it.

I would not have believed it if it were not for the fact that both of these men are experienced shooters, who, before the incident had never met before, and both were adamant about what happened. (That and I saw the box of ammo and the bullet hole in our plastic tray at the firing line.) Needless to say, everyone who was there that day now makes sure their ammuntion is either covered, or on the side trays, not up where flying brass can hit it.

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  • 4 months later...
Can we borrow that pic for the "too much crimp" demo as well? Was that factory ammo? :surprise:
Not factory ammo. As the shooter is an experience loader, and an A class Limited shooter, I'd guess he has found that to be an accurate load.

I'd also assume that the case lifted off the bullet on firing, and between that and the inertia of the case that struck it, the primer wouldn't have moved.

As an additional factor, the combustion pressure had to be quite low, since there was no containment once the bullet left the case.

To clarify the ammo in question. If it is the same pieces of brass that I gave to Patrick, it was factory win. white box. If it is not the same stuff that I gave Patrick, then it is reloaded ammo.

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That be the stuff. So, W-W white box .40 S&W 180 grain ammo it was.

Yes it is. The attacking case jumped head first out of a Glock right onto the styrine bullet tray and kicked butt on an unsuspecting live round. The live round had a very short fuse and went off on the empty case.

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