RickT Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 Super seniors shooting steel challenge we need to softest load possible for our 9mm 1911. I had switched from N320 to WSF, seeking to use up the 20+ lbs of WSF I have on hand. Softest WSF load I found was 3.4gr WSF behind 145gr Acme. Fast powder/light bullet should produce even less recoil of course so I bought 2 lbs of Sport Pistol when ordering primers and started at 4.2gr SP behind 115gr Acme (10% below Alliant max of 4.7gr). I like the fact that the powder is low density; when I do take a look at the filled case I can actually see the powder. 4.2gr cycled just fine so I kept going lower. I'm not chrono'ing at this point, just looking to see if the gun cycles. My SA 9mm 1911 will cycle at 3.4gr SP; at 72 y/o I do not have a gorilla grip and the sights basically don't rise at all. My wife's similar guns run reliably at 3.5gr so I'll make enough for Saturday's informal match and a bit more 3.4gr to confirm that is cycles reliably. Won't be able to chrono for a few weeks with matches coming up. There is very little smoke from this powder and even though the gun gets dirty after 500+ rounds the residue cleans up easier than what's left after using WSF. Of course your mileage may vary and a 1911 is probably a bit more tune-able than some polymer guns, but I'm pretty surprise that I could go this low relative to max; not nearly the case with N320. It's possible my ES is wacko, but at least the ejection looks to be very consistent, and Acme 115gr are considerably less expensive than Acme 145gr (great bullet BTW) so there's that. Every time there is a post about going "below book" someone will post about the likelihood of spontaneous detonation, but I've never seen a confirmed report of such so I've always gone by what will cycle in the gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hi-Power Jack Posted April 6, 2018 Share Posted April 6, 2018 I've loaded 9mm "soft loads" with WW231, Red Dot and couple other powders - 125 gr bullets with about 3.0 grains of powder. They all work and are Very Pleasant to shoot, even in my Kel-Tec that weighs less than a box of 9mm ammo PF is around the 110 mark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowdyb Posted April 6, 2018 Share Posted April 6, 2018 I just bought 16lb of Sport Pistol that's what I think of it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickT Posted April 6, 2018 Author Share Posted April 6, 2018 50 minutes ago, rowdyb said: I just bought 16lb of Sport Pistol that's what I think of it Ditto. My one complaint is that the low density requires an enormous jug to hold 8 lbs, but I can live with that for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muncie21 Posted April 6, 2018 Share Posted April 6, 2018 58 minutes ago, RickT said: Ditto. My one complaint is that the low density requires an enormous jug to hold 8 lbs, but I can live with that for sure. What's the volume/density of sport pistol compared to N320 or Prima V? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetback Posted April 8, 2018 Share Posted April 8, 2018 3.3grs. of Sport Pistol 115 gr. jhp precision delta 1.060 o.a.l. Is my steel challenge load out of a Canik tp9sfx. Shoots flat and cycles. Haven't chrono'd don't need to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickT Posted April 8, 2018 Author Share Posted April 8, 2018 6 minutes ago, sweetback said: 3.3grs. of Sport Pistol 115 gr. jhp precision delta 1.060 o.a.l. Is my steel challenge load out of a Canik tp9sfx. Shoots flat and cycles. Haven't chrono'd don't need to. I could go lower than 3.4gr, but my wife's 1911 is a bit more finicky. I'm going to stick with 3.4 until I get a chance to chrono. Also, my OAL is 1.10" with coated bullets so I don't doubt my pressures are lower than what you would be seeing. Also, no reason to chrono, but I want to verify that my ES isn't going wacko. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowdyb Posted April 8, 2018 Share Posted April 8, 2018 3.30 under a 147gr rmr plated at 1.100" for me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HesedTech Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 I know it's been covered many times before, but testing seems to show faster powder measures less recoil. https://www.ssusa.org/articles/2017/6/19/gunpowder-selection-for-controlling-recoil/ Of course opinions vary. It appears your goal is not to meet a min power factor. Enjoy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickT Posted April 9, 2018 Author Share Posted April 9, 2018 No surprise that a fast(ish) powder behind 115gr is soft. I'm surprised at how far below the Alliant max. charge (4.7gr) I've been able to go (3.4gr) with Sport Pistol. VV,, for example, shows only a 0.6gr range between starting and maximum load for N320; I found I could go a bit below the starting load, but nowhere what I can do with SP. The Sport Pistol at 3.4gr is not just dribbling out of the gun. These soft loads certainly reduce slide speed, but at 72 y/o I'm not limited by cycle rate (best Smoke and hope string at 3.4 seconds). but for us average SC shooters it's really interesting to reduce recoil without compromising function. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timido Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 Anyone use this powder in a Pcc? Sounds like a cheaper alternative to n320 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batmo Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 (edited) I think I found the sweet spot with 3.0 gr under a 147 gr Bayou RNFP at 1.140 oal shot through my XDM 5.25. I tested 2.9 and 3.1 gr loads...all made minor power factor but the 3.0 gr load grouped much better. 8 of 10 shots at .750 and I pulled 2 out to 1.125 at 15 yards (you know...old eyes heavy winds strong coffee.....). This powder shoots cleaner than N320 and Clays and meters very consistent through my 550. I think Alliant just hit a Home Run. Edited April 10, 2018 by Batmo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timido Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 I ordered some sport pistol and saw this for everyone looking into it $2 rebate. http://www.alliantpowder.com/whats_new/promotions.aspx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darrell Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 The below test was with my new Springfield Elite RO. Bullet was Bayou 120 TCG. I need to test 147's next. and I think the 120's perform better at 1.060 like in my other guns. Bullet Bullet Wt Powder Chg Wt. Primer Case O.A.L Avg E.S. S.D. PF Grp Size Notes Date Temp °F Crimp Bayou TCG 120 T.G. 3.80 Fio Rem 1.060 1108 23 8 133.0 2.88 9 shot avg @ 25 yds R. R. 4/2/18 78 0.3785 Bayou TCG 120 S. Pistol 3.50 CCI Win 1.120 946 76 20 113.5 3.61 9 shot avg @ 25 yds R. R. 4/2/18 78 0.3770 Bayou TCG 120 S. Pistol 3.70 CCI Win 1.120 997 23 7 119.6 3.49 9 shot avg @ 25 yds R. R. 4/2/18 78 0.3770 Bayou TCG 120 S. Pistol 3.90 CCI Win 1.120 1022 51 15 122.6 3.00 9 shot avg @ 25 yds R. R. 4/2/18 78 0.3770 Bayou TCG 120 S. Pistol 4.10 CCI Win 1.120 1069 26 7 128.3 3.16 9 shot avg @ 25 yds R. R. 4/2/18 78 0.3770 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDescribe Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 On 4/7/2018 at 10:20 PM, RickT said: Also, no reason to chrono, but I want to verify that my ES isn't going wacko. RickT, in all likelihood, your ES and SD numbers are going to be pretty crappy, and here's why: When the powder ignites and pressure rises, the case walls are blown out against the chamber walls to create a pressure seal. This seal is what prevents your expanding gases and burning powder from escaping around between the case walls and chamber walls and back into the guts of the pistol. However, given a bullet and powder, there is a charge weight below which that pressure seal doesn't happen quickly enough, and in fact powder and gases escape back into the guts. When this happens, how much escapes and goes unused to drive the bullet is highly inconsistent, and ES and SD numbers suffer. YOU are certainly in this range with that light a charge and that light a bullet. So if you do chrono them, don't hope for good ES and SD. They're going to be poor. That said, ES and SD aren't what's most important. You know it meets your recoil desires, so all that's left for Steel Challenge is accuracy at 35 yards. If the load meets your desires for accuracy at 35 yards, who cares what the ES and SD numbers are? And as to catastrophic failures with light charges under published load windows, I've read confirmed cases of it, just NOT with 9mm. You need a considerably longer case for that to happen. Never going to happen with short, stubby pistol cases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickT Posted April 12, 2018 Author Share Posted April 12, 2018 On 4/10/2018 at 2:18 PM, IDescribe said: RickT, in all likelihood, your ES and SD numbers are going to be pretty crappy, and here's why: ............... That said, ES and SD aren't what's most important. You know it meets your recoil desires, so all that's left for Steel Challenge is accuracy at 35 yards. If the load meets your desires for accuracy at 35 yards, who cares what the ES and SD numbers are? ......... Absolutely. My ES/SD numbers with N320 weren't very good. Had a chance to practice with the 3.4gr SP load today and the recoil is almost non-existent. Doesn't make too much difference in some stages, but when transitions are very quick (speaking relatively) the sights are right there. The gun gets dirty after 500 rounds, but using Slip 2000 I had no cycling issues at the end of the session. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickT Posted April 18, 2018 Author Share Posted April 18, 2018 Tomorrow is C (for chrono) day with our soft SP loads. I' really wondering if the bullets aren't tumbling. We normally practice on a short range, but shooting the 35 yard 18x24 plates in a match last weekend wife and I were both hitting low, I mean really low. I can imagine a stabilized round cycling a 9mm 1911 without having sufficient velocity to minimize drop at that range. So, it's either old eyes are velocity really deteriorating fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe4d Posted April 18, 2018 Share Posted April 18, 2018 On 4/10/2018 at 12:18 PM, Timido said: I ordered some sport pistol and saw this for everyone looking into it $2 rebate. http://www.alliantpowder.com/whats_new/promotions.aspx Sweet, just bought 3 lbs of be 86 and 2400 from lgs,, still had bag with receipt in trash . thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pdq5oh Posted April 18, 2018 Share Posted April 18, 2018 (edited) I've been playing around with Sport Pistol and am very happy with it. I get a 135 PF with 3.4 gr and a 147 FP CMJ load in my 9MM guns. Very soft shooting load. I haven't loaded any very light loads with SP for the 9s yet as I have some True Blue to use up for that. In 45 I load 5.7 gr with a 230 RN FMJ bullet. PF 173. Again a very soft shooting load. Both in 5" 1911s. I tried 5.0 gr in the 45 with the 230s, but as IDescribe stated, I got a pretty good flash out of the ejection port when shooting indoors. I had a light recoil spring in the gun at the time and have put the stock spring back in to see what happens. I'm hoping the heavier spring will delay the opening enough to negate the fireball as this load is stupid soft. When I tried a very light load with CFE Pistol I got hit in the face by unburned powder. A little unsettling to say the least. Overall SP has become my powder of choice. At $122. for 8 lbs it'll last me a long time. BTW, I'm a super senior, too. Edited April 18, 2018 by pdq5oh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNSCaster2 Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 On 4/9/2018 at 2:22 PM, Timido said: Anyone use this powder in a Pcc? Sounds like a cheaper alternative to n320 Yep, chrono'd yesterday. JP GMR-15 SNS Casting 135gr Round Nose 3.0gr Sport Pistol @ 1.140" OAL 130PF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tcazes Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 Boy if you think sport pistol is soft try n310! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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